Is suicide selfish?

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sammario said:
Still, the scale of how devastating, especially to family and close friends, is extraordinary.

I heard of parents being devastated that their child is not a scientist but an artist.

Or that they're gay.

sammario said:
My brother died before I was born, and it completely destroyed my mother.

My mother saw how her 4 year old daughter was run over by a car, she still believes that people have the right to do as they please with their lives.

And that we're the selfish ones for not letting them die in fucking peace, which is the truth actually.

sammario said:
She's always having panic attacks and screaming and yelling, she should be retired, but because she had me in old age, she has to stay around.

Appealing to other's emotions is pretty retarded when we're talking about OUR LIVES.

DO TELL how other people FEEL THROUGH YOU, Gandhi.

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Autocrat said:
Hitler was good, objectively.

Apr 21, 2015 4:38 PM

#203

Tehqo

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There are different circumstances for suicide to be considered selfish

Apr 21, 2015 4:39 PM

#204

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sammario said:

Immahnoob said:
Then you screw up people anyway, even if you live.

If you break up with your girlfriend, she'll be devastated, you fucked her life too.

etc etc etc

Still, the scale of how devastating, especially to family and close friends, is extraordinary.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2647084/Talented-A-level-student-killed-impulse-breaking-boyfriend-struggling-cope-having-circle-friends.html

oh....I guess breaking up with someone is just as bad guess we must stop people breaking up with people because its selfish to not want to be in a relationship with someone because they might kill themselves.

Apr 21, 2015 4:39 PM

#205

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Immahnoob said:

sammario said:
Still, the scale of how devastating, especially to family and close friends, is extraordinary.

I heard of parents being devastated that their child is not a scientist but an artist.

Or that they're gay.

sammario said:
My brother died before I was born, and it completely destroyed my mother.

sammario said:
She's always having panic attacks and screaming and yelling, she should be retired, but because she had me in old age, she has to stay around.

Appealing to other's emotions is pretty retarded when we're talking about OUR LIVES.

DO TELL how other people FEEL THROUGH YOU, Gandhi.

Yeah, but your mother was fucking young. Even though she lost a child, she was still young and had the strength to survive such a thing. Plus, he was 24 years old and was trying to start his own business. He was basically the apple of my mom's eye, and he got in an accident while on his way to my Mom's house for her birthday. I know this because any time I ask her about my brother, SHE TELLS ME THIS HERSELF.

Apr 21, 2015 4:39 PM

#206

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Tehqo said:
There are different circumstances for suicide to be considered selfish

And these are?

Your life is your own only.

sammario said:
Yeah, but your mother was fucking young. Even though she lost a child, she was still young and had the strength to survive such a thing. Plus, he was 24 years old and was trying to start his own business. He was basically the apple of my mom's eye, and he got in an accident while on his way to my Mom's house for her birthday. I know this because any time I ask her about my brother, SHE TELLS ME THIS HERSELF.

"MY MOM SUFFERED MORE THAN YOURS."

Yeah, okay, she lost four children at birth. Two twins and two others. She's 54.
And then you're correlating AGE to suffering, topkekmao, ok.

That's the most retarded shit I've ever heard, for my mother, having a girl was the most important thing to her, guess what? She has two boys, no girls. And she still suffers for this shit, she's not a sociopath like me, but she can still be reasonable unlike other people.

Just because your mother suffered, that does not prove suicide selfish.

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Autocrat said:
Hitler was good, objectively.

Apr 21, 2015 4:41 PM

#207

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sammario said:

Yeah, but your mother was fucking young. Even though she lost a child, she was still young and had the strength to survive such a thing.

You hear that Noob some peoples pain is stronger and more than others just because. Age separates true pain from weaker less effective pain apparently.

Very insensitive of you I must say.

Apr 21, 2015 4:45 PM

#208

mecharobot

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-shotz said:
it's good for the earth.

You could also think that the person is wasting all the resources used on them and there will just be another to take their place. Then again, there is no rule or reason as to why or how a potential of a person can get fulfilled. There are vague concepts such as responsibility (towards society, goverment, god, parents, your dog, whatever) and other means of imposing guilt, but in the end it's just empty talk without actual power.

Apr 21, 2015 4:45 PM

#209

Tehqo

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Immahnoob said:

Tehqo said:
There are different circumstances for suicide to be considered selfish

And these are?

Your life is your own only.

As I said before, if you are victim of depression or bullying/intimidation and you kill yourself, I would honestly (in my opinion) consider that selfish. Of course it is your life, you choose what you want but in the end, your problem could have been solved and (most likely) had many people supporting you. If you end your life there, you're just ruining the lifes of the others that were supporting you. You are making them suffer after your own death. To make yourself happy, you made others sad.

On the other hand, I saw Sammario writing about this. If for example, someone is terminally ill and cannot handle it anymore. He knows that he is going to die soon and the people supporting him already know there is most likely no hope for him to recover. He can die, thats ''fine'' in a way because the people understand. Yes, the supporters will be devasted, but not in the same was as the examples above.

Apr 21, 2015 4:46 PM

#210

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Immahnoob said:

Tehqo said:
There are different circumstances for suicide to be considered selfish

And these are?

Your life is your own only.

Then, let me turn this around. Selfish means (of a person, action, or motive) lacking consideration for others; concerned chiefly with one's own personal profit or pleasure.
To kill yourself would to be doing something concerned chiefly with your own personal pleasure. You can't take life anymore, so you'd rather just leave it behind as well as all who care for you. It is to escape from your problems through death, to leave the problems of live. That is truly selfish. Just like abandoning any other responsibility is selfish. You're only doing it because you yourself do not care about how abandoning this responsibility will affect others.

Apr 21, 2015 4:46 PM

#211

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Immahnoob said:

Just because your mother suffered, that does not prove suicide selfish.

But it wasn't suicide, the argument hes making would be more along that lines of anyone dying is selfish because it causes suffering.

sammario said:

To kill yourself would to be doing something concerned chiefly with your own personal pleasure.

Apr 21, 2015 4:50 PM

#212

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I know, I never said it was suicide, I said that it does not prove that suicide is selfish.

sammario said:
To kill yourself would to be doing something concerned chiefly with your own personal pleasure.

Which is something we always do, no matter what. Or it's a step towards the goal of personal pleasure.

sammario said:
You can't take life anymore, so you'd rather just leave it behind as well as all who care for you.

If they'd care for me they'd let me leave if I want to leave.

sammario said:
That is truly selfish.

By that logic everything is selfish.

sammario said:
You're only doing it because you yourself do not care about how abandoning this responsibility will affect others.

With something that is completely my property alone. My own fucking life.

It's like saying leaving FROM YOUR HOUSE is selfish BECAUSE YOUR PARENTS WANT YOU TO STAY.

Fuck your emotions, these are mine.

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Autocrat said:
Hitler was good, objectively.

Apr 21, 2015 4:57 PM

#213

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Immahnoob said:
I know, I never said it was suicide, I said that it does not prove that suicide is selfish.

sammario said:
To kill yourself would to be doing something concerned chiefly with your own personal pleasure.

Which is something we always do, no matter what. Or it's a step towards the goal of personal pleasure.

sammario said:
You can't take life anymore, so you'd rather just leave it behind as well as all who care for you.

If they'd care for me they'd let me leave if I want to leave.

sammario said:
That is truly selfish.

By that logic everything is selfish.

sammario said:
You're only doing it because you yourself do not care about how abandoning this responsibility will affect others.

Nice informal fallacy there! Also, that is the dictionary definition of selfishness, so if you disagree with it... well, you're the same as Feminist who claim that somehow Feminism also fights for the equality of both sexs, or that Feminism is supposed to be involved with the LGBT community somehow.

Apr 21, 2015 4:57 PM

#214

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Yes, and I proved the term to be absurd. Having fun yet?

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Autocrat said:
Hitler was good, objectively.

Apr 21, 2015 5:09 PM

#215

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elevenletters said:

Tehqo said:
To make yourself happy, you made others sad.

How does killing yourself make you happy?

It doesn't, because the moment you're dead you can no longer feel anything.

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Autocrat said:
Hitler was good, objectively.

Apr 21, 2015 5:19 PM

#216

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Immahnoob said:
Yes, and I proved the term to be absurd. Having fun yet?

Still, it proves the point, YES, suicide is selfish. Regardless of if it is a redundant term, it is selfish, and thus, you are wrong, even if you did bring up a new point which personally I agree.

Apr 21, 2015 5:20 PM

#217

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sammario said:
YES, suicide is selfish.

So is everything, point.

Apr 21, 2015 5:22 PM

#218

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sammario said:

Immahnoob said:
Yes, and I proved the term to be absurd. Having fun yet?

Still, it proves the point, YES, suicide is selfish. Regardless of if it is a redundant term, it is selfish, and thus, you are wrong, even if you did bring up a new point which personally I agree.

You do know that reducing to absurd means that the idea that it is selfish is wrong, right?

Because the follow-up is irrational.

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Autocrat said:
Hitler was good, objectively.

Apr 21, 2015 5:23 PM

#219

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Spooky_Love said:

sammario said:
YES, suicide is selfish.

So is everything, point.

>says term is redundant and I don't care it's redundant
>someone points out it's redundant
gg.

Apr 21, 2015 5:24 PM

#220

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Immahnoob said:

sammario said:

Still, it proves the point, YES, suicide is selfish. Regardless of if it is a redundant term, it is selfish, and thus, you are wrong, even if you did bring up a new point which personally I agree.

You do know that reducing to absurd means that the idea that it is selfish is wrong, right?

Because the follow-up is irrational.

Yeah, but regardless of what you think, you agree by selfish's current definiton, this action is selfish. Regardless of if you think it is absurd or not, it is the definition and you can't go changing the definition of words to fit your narrative...

Sounds familiar, doesn't it?

Apr 21, 2015 5:25 PM

#221

00001111010101

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sammario said:

Immahnoob said:
Yes, and I proved the term to be absurd. Having fun yet?

Still, it proves the point, YES, suicide is selfish. Regardless of if it is a redundant term, it is selfish, and thus, you are wrong, even if you did bring up a new point which personally I agree.

Sammy boy. What if I told you

Immahnoob said:
Fuck your emotions, these are mine.

You are not valuing a human life nearly enough. B-but muh sad relatives, muh making problems for others for my own pleasure. If the pleasure you get from killing yourself is purely because you could not take it anymore, those people are at fault for not helping. Yeah nobody cares if you are sad at least youre alive.

Apr 21, 2015 5:26 PM

#222

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sammario said:
Regardless of if you think it is absurd or not,

You're now trying to deny logic. Have fun being wrong.

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Autocrat said:
Hitler was good, objectively.

Apr 21, 2015 5:26 PM

#223

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sammario said:

>says term is redundant and I don't care it's redundant
>someone points out it's redundant
gg.

Having to turn to semantics to win an argument that just a few posts ago you were arguing with personal emotions and family examples.

gg great 180 on strategy there.

Apr 21, 2015 5:29 PM

#224

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Immahnoob said:

sammario said:
Regardless of if you think it is absurd or not,

You're now trying to deny logic. Have fun being wrong.

>deny logic
Ha. Funny. Take it up with the dictionary if you think it's wrong, not me. Still, by the official english dictionaries definition, suicide = selfish. It really does not matter what you think, it only matters that it is selfish according to the official English Dictionary, thus answering that it is selfish. Immahnoob, stop trying.

Apr 21, 2015 5:29 PM

#225

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Spooky_Love said:

sammario said:
YES, suicide is selfish.

So is everything, point.

Everything? What about giving out advice? I would like to think its being considerate for some areas. Especially if its to make someone feel better. Also it helps oneself knowing you helped someone etc.

Behold of my awesomeness~
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But my feels.

Apr 21, 2015 5:32 PM

#226

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sammario said:

Ha. Funny. Take it up with the dictionary if you think it's wrong, not me. Still, by the official english dictionaries definition, suicide = selfish.

The dictionary: "The action of killing oneself intentionally"

All I see is the description of an action, where does it mention the state of selfishness.

Apr 21, 2015 5:34 PM

#227

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sammario said:
Ha. Funny. Take it up with the dictionary if you think it's wrong, not me.

But I am, but with that I'm also taking it up with you.

You know what your fallacy is currently? Appeal to the dictionary.

Rasco said:
Everything? What about giving out advice? I would like to think its being considerate for some areas. Especially if its to make someone feel better. Also it helps oneself knowing you helped someone etc.

Sound waves harm the ears by aging them. Your advice can be wrong so you can be inconsiderate. Your advice can also not help. etc

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Autocrat said:
Hitler was good, objectively.

Apr 21, 2015 5:34 PM

#228

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Spooky_Love said:

sammario said:

Ha. Funny. Take it up with the dictionary if you think it's wrong, not me. Still, by the official english dictionaries definition, suicide = selfish.

The dictionary: "The action of killing oneself intentionally"

All I see is the description of an action, where does it mention the state of selfishness.

Yes, and you would do this knowing that it may affect others, thus it is selfish. Regardless if Immahnoob has some paranoid belief that everything everyone does is for their own benefit, this would be selfish by the English Dictionary's definition. Thus, someone close this thread already. If you want to debate the term "selfish", make another thread for it and stop going Off-Topic.

Apr 21, 2015 5:35 PM

#229

ThePinhead3333

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Nope and not if any one is caring about yo then go ahead and kill yourself

My name is Terrence always is Terrence and will always be Terrence
Current Accounts: ThePinhead3333,

Apr 21, 2015 5:35 PM

#230

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Immahnoob said:

sammario said:
Ha. Funny. Take it up with the dictionary if you think it's wrong, not me.

But I am, but with that I'm also taking it up with you.

You know what your fallacy is currently? Appeal to the dictionary.

Sound waves harm the ears by aging them. Your advice can be wrong so you can be inconsiderate. Your advice can also not help. etc

Oh fuck off. Plus, I know you're not that stupid. You know he meant the thought behind the action, not the action itself.

Apr 21, 2015 5:35 PM

#231

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You make an assumption that you know something more than the listener, you are selfish in your idea that what you will say will make someone elses life better its an act of superiority and makes you feel good about yourself without even knowing if it will help.

Apr 21, 2015 5:37 PM

#232

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sammario said:

Yes, and you would do this knowing that it may affect others

Your leaping. Your argument was that the dictionary states suicide is selfish but it doesn't you made a personal leap in logic that isn't explicitly expressed. so your argument was not correct.

Apr 21, 2015 5:37 PM

#233

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Immahnoob said:
Sound waves harm the ears by aging them. Your advice can be wrong so you can be inconsiderate. Your advice can also not help. etc

So your suggesting that everyone to not hear? Aging is inevitable. But you are considering maybe it would help and will be seen as good no? Thus not selfish.

Behold of my awesomeness~
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Apr 21, 2015 5:38 PM

#234

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sammario said:
[Oh fuck off. Plus, I know you're not that stupid. You know he meant the thought behind the action, not the action itself.

Perfect then, everything we do is in the scope of our own pleasure, we're inherently selfish after all.

Selflessness is impossible to attain, we simply have individuals that are less selfish.

Rasco said:

Immahnoob said:
Sound waves harm the ears by aging them. Your advice can be wrong so you can be inconsiderate. Your advice can also not help. etc

So your suggesting that everyone to not hear? Aging is inevitable. But you are considering maybe it would help and will be seen as good no? Thus not selfish.

Yes, I am suggesting that. No, it's not, how selfish of you for not having found immortality. Not really, because you are giving the advice for your own pleasure in the end.

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Autocrat said:
Hitler was good, objectively.

Apr 21, 2015 5:39 PM

#235

Rarusu_

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Rasco said:

Spooky_Love said:

So is everything, point.

Everything you do is selfish, because everything starts and ends with your ego. And that's good, because without the ego, it would be a souless person just doing things because it was programmed to do so.

Apr 21, 2015 5:41 PM

#236

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Rarusu_ said:

Everything you do is selfish, because everything starts and ends with your ego. And that's good, because without the ego, it would be a souless person just doing things because it was programmed to do so.

We also wouldn't eat, sleep, mate or look after ourselves because everything humans do is a selfish pursuit to continue living their lives. If anything its been selfish that keeps people from doing suicide.

Think about it those who don't commit suicide because of how it would make others feel do so because they don't want to feel bad in making other people upset so they selfishly live on to keep others happy which makes them not feel bad about it. If they honestly didn't care about their own feelings they wouldn't feel bad in killing themselves and making others feel bad.

Apr 21, 2015 5:42 PM

#237

mecharobot

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"Nothing in this world is free, except good advice."

Usually the "advice" is something the person is already aware of and has heard a thousand times. Maybe your advice is the one that pushes them over the edge?

Apr 21, 2015 5:47 PM

#238

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Yeah I'll accept~ all the variables of "giving Advice", but What your forgetting is that being considerate makes it unselfish by definition. Even if its considerate combined with pleasure.

Behold of my awesomeness~
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Apr 21, 2015 5:52 PM

#239

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Rasco said:
Yeah I'll accept~ all the variables of "giving Advice", but What your forgetting is that being considerate makes it unselfish by definition. Even if its considerate combined with pleasure.

It's not, unselfish is the exact same thing as selfless, which is not possible to be as selfless means "concerned more with the needs and wishes of others than with one's own; unselfish.".

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Autocrat said:
Hitler was good, objectively.

Apr 21, 2015 5:57 PM

#240

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Immahnoob said:
It's not, unselfish is the exact same thing as selfless, which is not possible to be as selfless means "concerned more with the needs and wishes of others than with one's own; unselfish.".

The exact same??? O.o Well not according to the definitions since Unselfish is putting needs before ones own, which their needs could come second.

Behold of my awesomeness~
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But my feels.

Apr 21, 2015 5:58 PM

#241

mr_chang

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Yeah. Instead of trashing a perfectly normal body like that, you could at least feed yourself to the starving children in Africa. #SuicideForAfrica

Apr 21, 2015 5:59 PM

#242

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Rasco said:

The exact same??? O.o Well not according to the definitions since Unselfish is putting needs before ones own, which their needs could come second.

The definition has "unselfish" in it's own definition.

And you just repeated the same definition I posted with different wording.

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Autocrat said:
Hitler was good, objectively.

Apr 21, 2015 6:00 PM

#243

Tehqo

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Too much argument. Needs more agreement.

Apr 21, 2015 6:03 PM

#244

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Immahnoob said:
The definition has "unselfish" in it's own definition.

And you just repeated the same definition I posted with different wording.

Soo the difference would just be "willing to put" and "concerned more with " Which would just make it.. Unselfish. SO yeah not everything.

Behold of my awesomeness~
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Apr 21, 2015 6:15 PM

#245

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Rasco said:

Immahnoob said:
The definition has "unselfish" in it's own definition.

And you just repeated the same definition I posted with different wording.

Soo the difference would just be "willing to put" and "concerned more with " Which would just make it.. Unselfish. SO yeah not everything.

You're just being willfully ignorant at this point.

No matter what you do, you do it for your own pleasure, that means you do not put anything other than yourself on a pedestal, our ego moves us.

Tehqo said:
Too much argument. Needs more agreement.

Yeah, you could agree with the truth sometimes.

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Autocrat said:
Hitler was good, objectively.

Apr 21, 2015 6:17 PM

#246

00001111010101

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Lets ask somewhere else perhaps? Here are google results.

The first 6 results after that in order:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/katie-hurley/theres-nothing-selfish-about-suicide_b_5672519.html (Says no)

http://www.debate.org/opinions/is-suicide-a-selfish-act ( a debate website)
41% Say Yes
59% Say N

http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/608306-is-suicide-selfish (says yes)

http://thoughtcatalog.com/sarah-laughon/2014/08/we-need-to-stop-calling-suicide-selfish/ (says no)

http://www.theguardian.com/science/brain-flapping/2014/aug/12/robin-williams-suicide-and-depression-are-not-selfish (says no)

http://www.suicidefindinghope.com/content/is_suicide_selfish (both)

Apr 21, 2015 6:18 PM

#247

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Immahnoob said:
You're just being willfully ignorant at this point.

No matter what you do, you do it for your own pleasure, that means you do not put anything other than yourself on a pedestal, our ego moves us.

Or perhaps I'm trying to be considerate. Yes I agree Pleasure and Ego, But if it helps others it could be seen as unselfish at that very moment. The instinct to help someone is a powerful thing.

Behold of my awesomeness~
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Apr 21, 2015 6:19 PM

#248

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Rasco said:

Or perhaps I'm trying to be considerate. Yes I agree Pleasure and Ego, But if it helps others it could be seen as unselfish at that very moment. The instinct to help someone is a powerful thing.

You're just jumping steps, if I'm helping you for reasons that are not your well being but rather mine THROUGH your well being then I'm not selfless/unselfish, I'm selfish.

Considering everyone is helping another for that reason, it's impossible to attain selflessness.

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Autocrat said:
Hitler was good, objectively.

Apr 21, 2015 6:25 PM

#249