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May 7, 2015 4:05 PM
#201
Veronin said: oktavia-12 said: They don't need scientific proof. Okay, you're beyond reason. Conversation over. Can you disprove their gender identity scientifically? That's just as important a question, and here's a hint: you can't. No scientific proof leaning one way or the other yet. You know what that means? We can't rely on science right this moment. Hence I suggest that in the meantime, we go for the empathetic and humane route of treating them however will make them happier. |
May 7, 2015 4:07 PM
#202
Ulquiorra1923 said: Im an alien plant you oppressive shitlord!Stop being so stupid and put your real gender there, who do you think will care about it anyway? There are some who don't even believe if you put your real gender or not. Its more stupid to leave it without anything, are you a alien or a plant? |
Kenjataimu mode status: 恒久 |
May 7, 2015 4:13 PM
#203
Kenjataimu said: Ulquiorra1923 said: Im an alien plant you oppressive shitlord!Stop being so stupid and put your real gender there, who do you think will care about it anyway? There are some who don't even believe if you put your real gender or not. Its more stupid to leave it without anything, are you a alien or a plant? Put that in your profile description to let us now. I guess you also have tentacles, it must be nice.. |
May 7, 2015 4:22 PM
#204
Lemongrope said: Agreed. Having a drop down list for gender on sites like this just feels so useless. Just have a blank box and let people write whatever they want... |
May 7, 2015 4:30 PM
#205
DrCoppelius said: Veronin said: oktavia-12 said: They don't need scientific proof. Okay, you're beyond reason. Conversation over. Can you disprove their gender identity scientifically? That's just as important a question, and here's a hint: you can't. No scientific proof leaning one way or the other yet. You know what that means? We can't rely on science right this moment. Hence I suggest that in the meantime, we go for the empathetic and humane route of treating them however will make them happier. Well, you're right, it is impossible to disprove something that has no evidence it exists in the first place. So I think the reasonable route would be to have the one claiming something exists to first provide evidence that it does, since it's impossible for there to be any discussion otherwise. And especially challenging the entire nature of humanity would require some hard evidence in order to convince people, I think. It's certainly not common sense so it should not be treated as such. They're outliers acting like they are the majority. 'Feelings' aren't enough to change that. I don't think these people should be discriminated against, but I would personally classify them as confused people rather than genderqueer or what have you. |
May 7, 2015 4:41 PM
#206
Veronin said: Well, you're right, it is impossible to disprove something that has no evidence it exists in the first place. So I think the reasonable route would be to have the one claiming something exists to first provide evidence that it does, since it's impossible for there to be any discussion otherwise. And especially challenging the entire nature of humanity would require some hard evidence in order to convince people, I think. It's certainly not common sense so it should not be treated as such. They're outliers acting like they are the majority. 'Feelings' aren't enough to change that. I don't think these people should be discriminated against, but I would personally classify them as confused people rather than genderqueer or what have you. The thing is, it's not as simple as providing evidence it's real or vice-versa because if it is real, then it's in the brain, and we don't really understand how the brain and genetics work just yet. You can't just say, 'Here, provide proof' and expect them to go and scan their brain and come back with proof. That's silly. We'll still have to wait years before we understand gender scientifically. I'm not against people saying that 'genderqueer' isn't scientific, but I'm against people bringing up science in this argument when it's essentially a factor that weighs neither way. And common sense proves nothing either. As for you saying they're outliers acting like they're the majority, they're not. They're just asking to be treated as they consider proper instead of being patronized and called 'confused'. That's not hard to do, it wouldn't hurt anyone, it would make some people happy, and you can't prove scientifically they're wrong in their beliefs. So what's the drawback? |
May 7, 2015 5:37 PM
#207
DrCoppelius said: The thing is, it's not as simple as providing evidence it's real or vice-versa because if it is real, then it's in the brain, and we don't really understand how the brain and genetics work just yet. You can't just say, 'Here, provide proof' and expect them to go and scan their brain and come back with proof. That's silly. We'll still have to wait years before we understand gender scientifically. I'm not against people saying that 'genderqueer' isn't scientific, but I'm against people bringing up science in this argument when it's essentially a factor that weighs neither way. And common sense proves nothing either. As for you saying they're outliers acting like they're the majority, they're not. They're just asking to be treated as they consider proper instead of being patronized and called 'confused'. That's not hard to do, it wouldn't hurt anyone, it would make some people happy, and you can't prove scientifically they're wrong in their beliefs. So what's the drawback? I think neuroscience could make a compelling argument for either case. Being banged on the head can wreck a part of the brain and cause a complete personality change in the person, for example. It could be something similar - maybe a slight mutation with the brain explains why some people believe they're the other gender or something in-between. Or maybe not, and it's actually a completely normal thought process. It's true that we aren't yet at the level where science is advanced enough to explain gender, as you've said. My point is just that it's possible. You could make a scientific/factual argument, and I hope that if it does and if these other genders are proven to be an aberration, that all the talk of 'feelings' will disappear. These people can be treated properly without believing they're some fancy pantsy genderpansexualandroqueer. I don't believe God exists but I don't think Christian people are idiots for believing that. I just think they're mistaken, just like I think the idea of a third or 27th gender is mistaken. Maybe I could rephrase my posts so it's clear I'm making an opinion rather than stating facts, but the same can be said for some of these Tumblr girls like Ms. Definition Lady who believes other genders are so obviously true that they don't even need proof. You can give these people the 'other' tag on MAL to identify themselves. I don't mind. Whatever. I just dislike it when the people who don't want it are treated as horrible, illogical monsters or something. |
VeroninMay 7, 2015 5:42 PM
May 7, 2015 6:01 PM
#208
Veronin said: I think neuroscience could make a compelling argument for either case. Being banged on the head can wreck a part of the brain and cause a complete personality change in the person, for example. It could be something similar - maybe a slight mutation with the brain explains why some people believe they're the other gender or something in-between. Or maybe not, and it's actually a completely normal thought process. It's true that we aren't yet at the level where science is advanced enough to explain gender, as you've said. My point is just that it's possible. You could make a scientific/factual argument, and I hope that if it does and if these other genders are proven to be an aberration, that all the talk of 'feelings' will disappear. These people can be treated properly without believing they're some fancy pantsy genderpansexualandroqueer. I don't believe God exists but I don't think Christian people are idiots for believing that. I just think they're mistaken, just like I think the idea of a third or 27th gender is mistaken. Maybe I could rephrase my posts so it's clear I'm making an opinion rather than stating facts, but the same can be said for some of these Tumblr girls like Ms. Definition Lady who believes other genders are so obviously true that they don't even need proof. You can give these people the 'other' tag on MAL to identify themselves. I don't mind. Whatever. I just dislike it when the people who don't want it are treated as horrible, illogical monsters or something. Yeah, that last part is fine by me. I prefer civilized discussion anyway and name-calling accomplishes nothing. I'd much rather convince people than yell at them and I'll only be tempted to do the later if others are already acting inflammatory. The mutation part--that's basically what I believe (suspect?) actually, but I don't think other genders being a mutation or an aberration means we should say it doesn't exist. That's a little bit like saying we should pretend that someone born with an extra finger was born with five because having five fingers is more normal. But as I've said, science is for now irrelevant in my opinion so I'll leave that aside. Lastly, I understand the Christian analogy, however if you want to take a bit further then here: right now, it's as though we have a section for religion (gender) in our profile and we're allowed two options: Christian (male), Muslim (female) and not specified. And right now people are complaining that they believe in other things (are another gender) and they'd like more options. And I don't think we should reject that. Really, if you're offended by Hinduism (genderqueers), then just ignore them, right? |
May 7, 2015 7:01 PM
#209
Please, explain, how not havin' an option to identify gender on an anime site can hurt anyone. If it can't, than all your "humanitarian" arguments are in vain 'cause here Occam's razor comes in action. MAL's already enough complicated and bugged, any other unnecessary "improvements" only makes things worse. There is nice principle equally workin' for machines as well busyness - it's better to have few specialized entities than try to cram all possible in one, you either have few perfect entities or one fucked up. You can't appeal to all, you can't please all, so it's better to concentrate on specific auditory. That's an anime site, not datin' or social network. |
May 7, 2015 7:17 PM
#210
kitsune0 said: Please, explain, how not havin' an option to identify gender on an anime site can hurt anyone. If it can't, than all your "humanitarian" arguments are in vain 'cause here Occam's razor comes in action. MAL's already enough complicated and bugged, any other unnecessary "improvements" only makes things worse. There is nice principle equally workin' for machines as well busyness - it's better to have few specialized entities than try to cram all possible in one, you either have few perfect entities or one fucked up. You can't appeal to all, you can't please all, so it's better to concentrate on specific auditory. That's an anime site, not datin' or social network. Well, some people could feel ostracized that they can't identify what they consider their proper gender when the majority of people can. I don't care if people can't identify their gender, but I think it should be equal. Either everyone can or no one can and people have to do it in their About Me. If you consider it useless then you shouldn't be using it (and yet I noticed you specified you're a dude on your profile). Anyway, saying it has to be simple is silly. A blank box you can fill out is very, very simple to use, and to code I'm sure. Lastly: many people use this as a social network. Forums are social. Casual discussion especially, and it's one of the most active. |
May 7, 2015 7:49 PM
#211
The "About me" is also blank, people can put w/e they want there. So they have options to specify their supposed gender. |
May 7, 2015 8:42 PM
#212
Yes, but why make people do that when there's a gender box. No one wants to talk about the intimate details of their gender on an about me, hence probably why a lot of the 'Not Specified's are so. For those of you against it, here's an appeal: it could make it easier for you to avoid weirdo queers or something like that. On a social site it is nice to 1 be able to identify who you are 2 make it so that if someone has an issue/you have an issue with something in their profile they just won't talk to you/you won't talk to them. |
May 7, 2015 8:52 PM
#213
Why? So that no one would know that you are a female weeaboo? I categorize into: Male=most likely male. Female=probably female Not Specified=female weeaboo/homosexual |
ExTemplarMay 7, 2015 8:57 PM
May 8, 2015 12:55 AM
#214
DrCoppelius said: Some people always feel down and even ass-pull some smart words about it, like "depressed" or "ostracized", while actually none of this words has anything with reality (hint: look definition of "ostracism"). And this people called "sore losers". Just as I say, you can't appeal to all, so let's focus on specific group, and see, it just happens to be that the majority of anime watchers are pretty much normal people, not some plush furry perverts.Well, some people could feel ostracized that they can't identify what they consider their proper gender when the majority of people can. DrCoppelius said: I never said that it's useless. And I specified my gender only because it annoys me when I see "Not specified" on my profile. Also, here you accidentally slipped that you're mixed "gender" and "sex". "Dude" is not a gender.If you consider it useless then you shouldn't be using it (and yet I noticed you specified you're a dude on your profile). DrCoppelius said: Forums are not, profile's comments section are. Especially "Casual discussions" that even are more anonymous imageboard that any other sections of MAL's forum, and that says a lot. If by "active" you mean "populated only by most active admitted trolls" - than sure, but trolls don't need "Gender" option, they don't need profile at all.Lastly: many people use this as a social network. Forums are social. Casual discussion especially, and it's one of the most active. |
May 8, 2015 3:24 AM
#215
DrCoppelius said: Veronin said: oktavia-12 said: They don't need scientific proof. Okay, you're beyond reason. Conversation over. Can you disprove their gender identity scientifically? That's just as important a question, and here's a hint: you can't. No scientific proof leaning one way or the other yet. You know what that means? We can't rely on science right this moment. Hence I suggest that in the meantime, we go for the empathetic and humane route of treating them however will make them happier. Then why don't we accept the delusions of paranoid shizophrenics or people with dissociative identity disorder as well? I mean, can you prove that their delusions are not real? I'm sure they would prefer it if people believed them too. Whether it'd be actually good for them is a different matter though. That also applies to transgenders. |
Proud founder of the 20+ virgins club. Please visit my manga blog for manga updates and more! Mup da doo didda po mo muhfuggen bix nood ^ Need someone who can translate this. Pm me pls. |
May 8, 2015 9:19 AM
#216
kitsune0 said: Some people always feel down and even ass-pull some smart words about it, like "depressed" or "ostracized", while actually none of this words has anything with reality (hint: look definition of "ostracism"). And this people called "sore losers". Just as I say, you can't appeal to all, so let's focus on specific group, and see, it just happens to be that the majority of anime watchers are pretty much normal people, not some plush furry perverts. I never said that it's useless. And I specified my gender only because it annoys me when I see "Not specified" on my profile. Also, here you accidentally slipped that you're mixed "gender" and "sex". "Dude" is not a gender. Forums are not, profile's comments section are. Especially "Casual discussions" that even are more anonymous imageboard that any other sections of MAL's forum, and that says a lot. If by "active" you mean "populated only by most active admitted trolls" - than sure, but trolls don't need "Gender" option, they don't need profile at all. You are wrong when you say the website cannot appeal to everyone. It can: blank box that you fill out. You are comparing genderqueers to plush furry perverts: nothing to do with each other. One is a fetish, the other a gender (imaginary or not). You may be right that ostracized is the wrong word: hurt, bothered, excluded, not recognized. Whatever. They won't be happy. You are complaining I called you a dude. Not too sure what you mean by I mixed gender and sex, but whatever. I apologize for my informal language. I noticed you are of male gender. Happy? Synonyms of socializing: interacting, conversing, mingling. People respond to each other on forums, they joke around, express their opinions. They interact. Seems like socializing to me. Shiratori, that is none of your business. I am sure you feel no need when you see schizophrenics to correct them in their delusions, and I don't see why you feel the need to correct genderqueers in their 'delusions'. I think I may end the discussion now because I feel like I'm taking over the thread and I also suspect this conversation is leading nowhere. |
May 8, 2015 3:15 PM
#217
DrCoppelius said: No, there will be ones that will complain "Why do we need to write something here by ourselves, why can't you just make some drop-down menu, it'll be much more easy for us to do".You are wrong when you say the website cannot appeal to everyone. It can: blank box that you fill out. DrCoppelius said: You don't know who furry (furfags, in AIB terms) are? They considered themselves not humans and usually are very hard-headed about it. So yes, they are very similar, they both very vocal and demandin' about who they "really' are.You are comparing genderqueers to plush furry perverts: nothing to do with each other. One is a fetish, the other a gender (imaginary or not). DrCoppelius said: And MAL is what, charity psychological help center? Someone somewhere always be unhappy about somethin'.hurt, bothered, excluded, not recognized. Whatever. They won't be happy. DrCoppelius said: Not complainin', just makin' a remark, there is no need to apology 'cause no harm done. But I appreciate you soft approach.You are complaining I called you a dude. Not too sure what you mean by I mixed gender and sex, but whatever. I apologize for my informal language. I noticed you are of male gender. Happy? DrCoppelius said: Erm, "socializing" and "social network" are not synonyms.Synonyms of socializing: interacting, conversing, mingling. People respond to each other on forums, they joke around, express their opinions. They interact. Seems like socializing to me. |
May 8, 2015 5:21 PM
#218
kitsune0 said: You don't know who furry (furfags, in AIB terms) are? They considered themselves not humans and usually are very hard-headed about it. So yes, they are very similar, they both very vocal and demandin' about who they "really' are. ....Bah, I'm definitely done. Screw the Internet. I've seen some genderqueers that appeared to me to be perfectly normal human beings with a quirk (so-to-speak) and so I've always held the viewpoint that there's nothing wrong with it, but with the existence of people like that it's no wonder people don't believe in it. |
May 8, 2015 7:12 PM
#219
Just adding my support to OP's original request. This isn't the 1930s anymore. ... the haters. Adding that even the extremely conservative Facebook as included such feature and put an end to the idiotic debate a few years ago. |
DmpstrbabyMay 8, 2015 7:16 PM
May 8, 2015 7:18 PM
#220
Dmpstrbaby said: Just adding my support to OP's original request. This isn't the 1930s anymore. Wow, I can't even... This is 2015 and people who disagree with me still exist? smh Dmpstrbaby said: Adding that even the extremely conservative Facebook as included such feature and put an end to the idiotic debate a few years ago. Faceberg is conservative? |
Proud founder of the 20+ virgins club. Please visit my manga blog for manga updates and more! Mup da doo didda po mo muhfuggen bix nood ^ Need someone who can translate this. Pm me pls. |
May 8, 2015 8:10 PM
#221
Shiratori99 said: Dmpstrbaby said: Just adding my support to OP's original request. This isn't the 1930s anymore. Wow, I can't even... This is 2015 and people who disagree with me still exist? smh This debate is old and pretty much all the bigoted argument have already been debunked. Just because something is new & confusing doesn't make it wrong. You might want to look up the reason why ppl are demanding this before forming an "opinion". Browsing itspronouncedmetrosexual.com or this PC lexicon http://bit.ly/1Qv4OXt would be a good start. As for ideas for the devs I believe that option 2 may be the best choice: http://bit.ly/1EWg4XE & a nice post about a contemporary way to view the Sex menu: http://bit.ly/1Iqk3hJ |
May 8, 2015 8:14 PM
#222
Dmpstrbaby said: Shiratori99 said: Dmpstrbaby said: Just adding my support to OP's original request. This isn't the 1930s anymore. Wow, I can't even... This is 2015 and people who disagree with me still exist? smh This debate is old and pretty much all the bigoted argument have already been debunked. Just because something is new & confusing doesn't make it wrong. You might want to look up the reason why ppl are demanding this before forming an "opinion". Browsing itspronouncedmetrosexual.com or this PC lexicon http://bit.ly/1Qv4OXt would be a good start. As for ideas for the devs I believe that option 2 may be the best choice: http://bit.ly/1EWg4XE & a nice post about a contemporary way to view the Sex menu: http://bit.ly/1Iqk3hJ Are you for real? You sound like the parody of a typical SJW lol |
Proud founder of the 20+ virgins club. Please visit my manga blog for manga updates and more! Mup da doo didda po mo muhfuggen bix nood ^ Need someone who can translate this. Pm me pls. |
May 8, 2015 8:16 PM
#223
Shiratori99 said: Are you for real? You sound like the parody of a typical SJW lol Oh you're one of those. Sorry I wasted my time... |
May 8, 2015 8:24 PM
#224
Dmpstrbaby said: Shiratori99 said: Are you for real? You sound like the parody of a typical SJW lol Oh you're one of those. Sorry I wasted my time... Hey, check out the Current Events forum. We kinda need someone to argue for the social justice side. |
Proud founder of the 20+ virgins club. Please visit my manga blog for manga updates and more! Mup da doo didda po mo muhfuggen bix nood ^ Need someone who can translate this. Pm me pls. |
May 8, 2015 8:31 PM
#225
To back OP's request even further... Gender bending in Japan From myth to 'postsex,' Michael Hoffman reviews an intrinsic feature of national life BY MICHAEL HOFFMAN SPECIAL TO THE JAPAN TIMES JUL 13, 2013 Do our genitals define us? Increasingly, they do not. Is sexuality more complicated than male/female? Increasingly, it is. Or maybe not increasingly: Maybe the only thing that’s changed over the ages is how much of our true selves society lets us show. The Bible, keystone arch of Western civilization, had it all figured out. “Male and female created he them,” says the Book of Genesis; “he” being God, “them” being us. Turn now to Deuteronomy 22:5: “A woman must not wear men’s clothing, nor a man wear women’s clothing, for anyone who does so is an abomination to the Lord your God.” What would the Lord our God have made of the 21st century and its explosion of sexual alternatives? Same-sex marriage, legal (as of now) in 13 countries and 12 U.S. states, is the barest tip of the iceberg. Language strains to keep up with new practices, or old practices no longer cloaked in shame or social disapproval: cross-dressing, transgenderism, androgyny, hermaphroditism and more — much more. Individuals proudly proclaim themselves genderqueer, bi-gender, agender. Last month an Australian court approved the right to officially label oneself “gender nonspecific.” Japan, where same-sex marriage is hardly an issue, let alone a right, would offend the biblical God less than other places — which is ironic, because Japan is among the modern world’s least Judeo-Christian countries. Sexually, though, it is — on the surface at least — overwhelmingly male/female. Is the surface deceptive? “Cool Japan” — manga- and anime-land — springs to mind as evidence that it is. Japan in fact was “cool” long before government PR machinery invented the label. Myth takes us back to the formless void, where among the first generations of gods and goddesses are Izanagi (“He who Invites”) and Izanami (“She who Invites”). The biblical God’s creation of the universe is awesome and mysterious. Not so Izanagi and Izanami’s begetting of Japan, recounted in the eighth-century chronicle “Nihon Shoki.” Imagine sexually awakened gods who, like children, don’t quite know what to do. They look at each other and are enchanted. Izanami speaks first: “What a splendid young man!” To which Izanagi replies, “What a splendid young woman!” Their first offspring was a “leech child,” born without limbs or bones. What had gone wrong? The older gods explained: Izanami, the female, had spoken first. Initiative was the male’s prerogative. Chastened, they tried again. This time they got it right. Izanami gave birth to the islands of Japan, and to gods and goddesses without number. The poor deformed baby, placed in a boat of reeds, floated away, never to be heard of again. Japan, begotten child of childlike gods, escaped the stern sexual discipline imposed by an asexual creator god whose grim intolerance of human passions caused him, for example, to destroy a city, Sodom, for a “sin” known ever since as sodomy. Japan acknowledged no sexual sins, least of all that one, as the 16th-century Christian missionaries who saw this “land of the gods” in its pristine state noted with squeamish disgust. The missionaries were banished and Japan went into isolation for 250 years. In the mid-19th century it was “opened.” Powerless to resist American and European bullying, it feverishly set about “modernizing.” Science and technology were not all it felt it had to learn from the West. Though it never turned Christian, it did adopt a quasi-Christian morality, toning down almost to the point of squelching the indigenous sexual playfulness (whose dark side, alas, is exploitation, of women in particular). The result was the buttoned-down Japan of the familiar stereotype — which must be taken, like all stereotypes, with a grain of salt. ‘Have you ever wondered how you look as a female?” A man not predisposed to answer “yes” probably wouldn’t be visiting a website that presumes to inquire. “Cross-dresser’s paradise” — that’s how the Elizabeth Club bills itself. Located in Tokyo’s Asakusabashi district, it is one of hundreds of similar establishments whose existence on the fringes of conventional society suggests conventional society’s failure to accommodate certain aspects — call them deviant if you like, but fewer and fewer people do — of human nature. “Don’t you want to become a lady of your dream?,” the website’s enticement continues. It’s easy enough. “At Elizabeth, we want your feminine experience to be all you hoped for. There is a shop that carries everything you need to become a female: lingerie, stockings, wigs, high-heels, clothing, makeup goods, accessories, breast forms. … After you change into women’s clothes, our makeup artists, all young girls, will transform you to a girl or lady of your dream. … There is no limit except for your imagination.” Clubs like this, and the widening appeal of cross-dressing and prime-time transgender TV stars such as Matsuko Deluxe, Ai Haruna and Ikko, to name some of the more famous, point to a restlessness within our conventional sexual boxes. Is it fanciful to foresee a time when we’ll burst out of them altogether? If so, there’s a lot of fanciful thinking around. Collectively it’s called “postgenderism.” One of its boldest exponents was feminist thinker Shulamith Firestone (1945-2012). In “The Dialectics of Sex” (1970) she wrote, “The end goal of feminist revolution must be … not just the elimination of male privilege but of the sex distinction itself: genital differences between human beings would no longer matter culturally. The reproduction of the species by one sex for the benefit of the other would be replaced by artificial reproduction.” Male privilege, 43 years later, is alive and well, much more so in Japan than elsewhere, if the World Economic Forum’s oft-cited 2012 “Global Gender Gap Report” is a fair measure. It ranked Japan a wretched 101st out of 135 countries in terms of female professional, economic and political empowerment. Behind that is a long past which showed scant regard for women. Warriors despised their weakness; Buddhism dismissed them as polluted beings incapable of attaining Enlightenment; Confucianism stressed the obedience a wife owed her husband and a mother her son. The modernizing regime of the Meiji Era (1868-1912) assigned woman her post-Confucian place — no corporate warrior or captain of burgeoning industry, she, but a “good wife and a wise mother” (“ryōsai kenbō“); it was written into the Meiji Civil Code, which remained in effect until 1947. Postgenderism? Not Japan’s forte, it seems. Even the grand coming-out party that was Tokyo Rainbow Week, much lauded for its celebration, over 10 heady days in April, of LGBT (lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender) life, showed Japan to be rather behind most of the developed world, though slowly catching up. The gay pride movement in the United States goes back at least to 1968 (kindled, it is true, by a prevalent homophobia more virulent than anything Japanese LGBT people ever faced); Japan’s did not begin until 1994. All the same, there is a touch, sometimes more than a touch, of “postgenderism” in Japanese culture, going all the way back to Izanami and Izanagi’s confusion over gender roles. Perhaps it’s not quite what Firestone had in mind. Perhaps, though, it hints at a latent capacity, to be realized over time (for better or worse), for what she did have in mind. A whimsical notion, admittedly. Let’s see if it holds. Manga and anime fans will be familiar with the term futanari, or “new half” — hermaphrodite characters endowed with feminine curves, voluptuous breasts and a virile penis. Their popularity goes back to the 1990s and endures to this day. Possibly this has something to do with the economic downturn that started around then, eroding the socially sanctioned and officially promoted orthodoxies — sexual and otherwise — that had gone more or less unchallenged during the Meiji and postwar economic surges. Possibly, too, there’s a futanari element in the psychology of the nation itself. American anthropologist Ruth Benedict (1887-1948) captured it in the title of her classic 1946 work on Japan, “The Chrysanthemum and the Sword” — beauty and strength; female and male. Among the book’s Japanese admirers was novelist Yukio Mishima (1925-1970). A year before his famous suicide by ritual samurai disembowelment and beheading, he made a speech in which, citing Benedict, he declared, “After the war the balance between these two (chrysanthemum and sword) was lost. The sword has been ignored since 1945. My ideal is to restore the balance. To revive the tradition of the samurai, through my literature and my action.” “The chrysanthemum and the sword” — they’re in Japan’s blood; both, together; at odds but inseparable. No man is all male; no woman is all female. Femininity was despised, but not the femininity in a man. The fiercest warrior was likely to be something of a poet, shedding unashamed tears over the beauty of cherry blossoms and the dew on a morning glory flower. Buddhism, the principal religion during the first 1,000 years of Japanese civilization, declared women to be unfit for Enlightenment — but not for reincarnation as a man in the next life. In some Buddhist sutras she changes her gender by meditating. The female within the male, and the male within the female, seem closer to the surface in the Japanese tradition than in the standard Western ones. The 13th-century “Heike Monogatari,” an epic tale of the 12th-century Genpei Civil War that marked the transition to military government under a succession of shoguns, tells of two brothers slain in battle and their widows who, to comfort their bereaved mother-in-law, present themselves to her clad in their late husbands’ armor. This is a long way from the cross-dressing at the Elizabeth Club, but it had to start somewhere. Some 450 years later, in 1686, the Osaka novelist Ihara Saikaku (1642-93) wrote “Gengobei, the Mountain of Love,” a cross-dressing tale whose most striking feature, besides the throbbing passion that animates it, is its perfect naturalness. Saikaku is evidently writing for readers who will be amused, and moved — but not shocked. Gengobei is a young rake who “devoted himself to the love of young men. Not once in his life had he amused himself with the fragile, long-haired sex.” When two of his especially beautiful lovers die suddenly, Gengobei enters the priesthood and renounces the world — not dreaming of the passion he has stirred in a pathetic young girl named Oman, “graced with such beauty that even the moon envied her.” Who should she fall in love with but Gengobei, “who had never in his life given a thought to girls”? Cutting her hair and dressing like a boy, Oman boldly sets out for Gengobei’s mountain retreat. As a boy she is irresistible to him, but the truth is bound to out, and when it does, “‘What difference does it make — the love of men or the love of women?’ (Gengobei) cried, overpowered by the bestial passion which rules this fickle world.” By Saikaku’s time, the theater known as kabuki was already a flourishing art form. Its roots lay in popular entertainments, circa 1600, on the banks or the dry bed of the Kamo River in Kyoto — singing, dancing, acrobatics, skits, burlesques. The earliest performers were female, some of them dressed as men. Then came the onnagata — male players of female roles. They were Japan’s first stars. The most famous of them all, Yoshizawa Ayame (1647-1709), was Saikaku’s contemporary. No woman, it was said, was more womanly than he — neither onstage nor off, for though unambiguously male (he was married and the father of four sons) he lived his private life in women’s clothes and with feminine speech and mannerisms. “Unless the onnagata lives as a woman in daily life,” he wrote in a treatise considered a handbook of the art to this day, “he won’t be an accomplished onnagata.” Yoshizawa set the feminine fashions of his day. Women learned from him, not he from them, how to dress, apply makeup and comport themselves for maximum coquettish effect. So it was with his artistic descendants as well. “Why should women appear when I am here?” demanded Nakamura Utaemon V, a famed onnagata of the 1920s. “There is no woman in all Japan who acts as feminine as I do.” Two words often used today to sum up a progressive attitude toward sex are “tolerance” and “diversity.” Human beings are not all of one sort; no one set of practices is “right,” “good” or “natural” as against others that are “wrong,” “evil” or “unnatural.” A glance at the sexual frolics of premodern Japan might suggest precisely those qualities of tolerance and diversity. Was Japan, before the West molded it in its own image, tolerant? One element it lacked might make it seem so — a “Lord your God” frowning on his creatures’ “abominations.” “Sodomy” was an early casualty, the stigma remaining until the gay pride movement of our own time began to erode biblically-sanctioned homophobia. Japan, in that sense, was way ahead of its time. In 1763 a satirical writer named Hiraga Gennai (1728-79) penned a gem of a story titled “Rootless Weeds.” His tale opens with Enma O, the Buddhist lord of the underword, about to pronounce judgment on a young monk who has just died of love for the onnagata Segawa Kikunojo II (a real-life actor who died in 1773). Counsel for the dead monk’s defense pleads for leniency: “How about letting him off with a soak in a boiling cauldron?” “Most definitely not!” thunders Enma O. “I’m told that something called ‘male homosexuality’ can be found all across the human world, and I absolutely cannot allow that kind of thing.” To make a long story all too short, defense counsel produces a portrait of the onnagata — with whom Enma O (did counsel foresee this?) promptly falls head over heels in love. What an unholy predicament! “I hereby resign,” declares Enma O, “as supreme ruler of the underworld. What’s a precious throne worth when I can go to the human world and share a pillow with him?” “Homosexuality (in Japan) did not mean delicacy and effeminacy,” writes historian Hiroshi Watanabe (in “A History of Japanese Political Thought: 1600-1901″; 2010). “Quite the contrary. From the Tokugawa Period (1603-1867) into the Meiji years (1868-1912), to say of a man that he ‘disliked women’ was to express a certain amount of approbation. … For many samurai, excessive contact with women ran the risk of diluting their masculinity, notwithstanding that heterosexual sex was essential to the continuity of the house. To work at winning the heart of a woman was even more demeaning.” Buddhist monks had other reasons for avoiding women. Religious celibacy vows do not seem to have precluded boys, however. “Boys appear often to have served as surrogates for the females absent from the lives of the monks,” writes historian Gary Leupp in his 1997 book, “Male Colors: The Construction of Homosexuality in Tokugawa Japan.” “Various Tokugawa Period jokes indicate the conflation of boys and women, and of the anus and vagina, in monastic society. In one, a priest on a religious retreat asks a friend to make him an onyake (artificial leather anus) for use in lieu of a boy. But he adds the request that it taste like a vagina.” This is homosexuality not as a lifestyle choice but for lack of anything better. Senior monks took under their wing acolytes young enough to look feminine, sexual relations being accepted as part of the acolytes’ education. The boys were called chigo. “Some monks during the medieval period,” writes Leupp, “shaved (their chigos’) eyebrows, powdered their faces (and) dressed them in female garb.” One tradition has Minamoto Yoshitsune, a hero of the 12th-century Genpei civil war, spending his early years as the chigo lover of an abbot. “During this period,” writes Leupp, “(Yoshitsune) wears cosmetics, wears his hair up in a girlish bun, blackens his teeth [as women of the day did], and thinly pencils in lines over his shaven eyebrows.” Is this tolerance, or exploitation? It can be a fine line between the two, and though it’s hard to enter into the feelings of people of bygone times, it’s the persistent hint of exploitation that disqualifies premodern Japan, sexually liberated though it seems in some ways, as a model for our own sexual liberation today. If liberation for some means slavery for others, it’s damaged goods. Women in particular have little reason to regret the passing of the past. “A wife must think of her husband as her lord and look up to him with humility,” explains “Onna no Daigaku” (“The Greater Learning for Women”), a manual for female conduct written in the early 1700s. “A woman regards her husband as heaven.” Custom was custom; force was force. Most women submitted — with varying degrees of willingness, resignation and despair. Some did not submit. The mid-19th century gives us the example of Matsuo Taseko (1811-94), an obscure peasant poet from a village in present-day Niigata Prefecture who, in the 1850s and ’60s, embraced the radical Imperial cause against the Tokugawa Shogun who had shown himself helpless against the intrusive foreigner. The year 1862 found her in Kyoto among swordsmen, assassins, poets and rabble-rousers, all bent on overthrowing the shogun and “restoring” the Emperor to real, not merely ceremonial, power. These were the birth pangs of the Meiji (Imperial) Restoration of 1868. What was Matsuo doing in the thick of this maelstrom? The only violence that she herself perpetrated was in her vituperative anti-Tokugawa poetry. More startling than her presence was her husband’s absence. “No other woman abandoned husband and family for the chaotic conditions in the capital (Kyoto),” notes her biographer, Anne Walthall, in “The Weak Body of a Useless Woman” (1998). Japanese history is rich in women of indomitable courage: a wife fighting and dying at her husband’s side; a widow defending to the death her husband’s name and cause. Matsuo acted alone. Her husband, a well-to-do peasant, stayed home and minded the farm. “(Matsuo) Taseko,” explains Walthall, “became androgynous, an onna masurao (a ‘manly woman’). … By appearing in (Kyoto) at this critical juncture, she usurped the male prerogative to move about and to act on one’s own. … Not for her was the role usually assigned to women in revolution, that of ‘giving moral support to their men folk.’ ” In becoming an onna masurao, did Matsuo sacrifice her gender, or free herself from it? One of her poems suggests that the sacrifice, if such indeed it was, meant little to her: “How awful to have the ardent heart of a manly man and the useless body of a weak woman.” Postgenderism. When Matsuo’s femaleness hindered her, she shucked it. And women today? Among shōjo manga (comics for young girls), none has ever matched the inexhaustible popularity of “Berusaiyu no Bara” (“The Rose of Versailles”), which, since its original run in 1972-73, has been recast as anime, films and musicals — all smash hits. The story, set during the French Revolution, is about one Oscar François de Jariayes, born a girl but raised as a boy by a father who wanted a son. As a boy she masters fencing, horsemanship and combat; as a man she flings herself into the revolutionary drama and falls in love with a man. The all-female Takarazuka Revue has performed it over the years to audiences totaling millions. Its starring role, that of Lady Oscar, is a sure vehicle to superstardom for the lucky otokoyaku (female player of male characters — Takarazuka’s answer to kabuki’s onnagata) who is appointed to play it. How to account for popularity on this scale? Evidently, today’s young women see the sexually ambiguous Lady Oscar as a kind of role model. What does she say to them? That a female gets nowhere in the world as a mere woman? That any single gender — female or male — falls short of being fully human? That both genders are equally meaningless, relics of an outgrown stage in the evolution of our species? Men, in that case, seem to be traveling the same road. Postgender male par excellence is the otaku, the hyper-computerized “nerd” whose absorption in manga, anime and computer games renders him unfit for, uninterested in, and contentedly detached from, anything previous generations have recognized as “real life.” Here we are in the heart of “Cool Japan.” In October 2008, a young man named Taichi Takashita circulated an online petition demanding the legal right to marry an anime character. “Nowadays,” the petition explained, “we have no interest in the three-dimensional world. If it were possible, I think I’d rather live in a two-dimensional world.” The desire to escape into a fantasy world is not new. What may be is the possibility of actually doing so — permanently. The 2-D girl of Takashita’s dreams is Mikuru Asahina, a beautiful but shy time traveler who figures in an anime series titled “Haruhi Suzumiya” — concerning which there is this interesting sidelight: In 2010, it hit the electronic grapevine that Aya Hirano, the 22-year-old voice actress who voices the series’ eponymous heroine, was not a virgin. The indignation and sense of betrayal that swept otakuland! One 23-year-old male fan told the weekly Spa! magazine at the time, “An idol must embody men’s ideal. To otaku, virginity is an ideal.” Takashita may never win the legal right to marry Mikuru (though his petition drew 3,000 signatures within two months), but he — like many others nowadays — commands the technology to spend as much time with her as he pleases. Isn’t that as good as legal marriage? It is, if “postgenderism” takes on the added meaning, as it seems to be doing, of “postsex.” Original Link: http://www.japantimes.co.jp/life/2013/07/13/general/gender-bending-in-japan/#.VU1-DY6rRp8 |
TyrelMay 9, 2015 3:57 PM
May 9, 2015 5:19 AM
#226
Dmpstrbaby said: Since when some unknown journalist/fiction writer works are considered as scientific/factual proof?BY MICHAEL HOFFMAN SPECIAL TO THE JAPAN TIMES |
May 9, 2015 6:02 AM
#227
I'm not sure why it would be difficult to just add an 'Other' option. A fill-in box sounds like a bad idea, and expanding upon 'other' isn't completely necessary. |
May 9, 2015 5:50 PM
#228
linkhimura said: Yeah that's what I said. Everyone ignored me too.The "About me" is also blank, people can put w/e they want there. So they have options to specify their supposed gender. |
Kenjataimu mode status: 恒久 |
May 9, 2015 6:24 PM
#230
[quote=Dmpstrbaby] Shiratori99 said: Are you for real? You sound like the parody of a typical SJW lol Don't overlook the fact that this is an extremely easy change assuming 'other' was added, and adding this could be appreciated by the people who feel they need it. I'm not sure why you're so against the idea of giving people that option, as I doubt it would affect you in any way. It's not like we're trying to rebuild society. Even jumping to the conclusion that Dmpstrbaby is an SJW, it's not like they're completely wrong, the main problem with them is their motive. Speaking of motives, what's your motive to NOT having this fourth option? Does the fact some people see their own gender differently offend you so much you need to regulate their opinions of themselves? That form of self-gratification isn't far from an SJW. |
May 9, 2015 7:18 PM
#231
LunarProxy said: Shiratori99 said: Are you for real? You sound like the parody of a typical SJW lol Don't overlook the fact that this is an extremely easy change assuming 'other' was added, and adkiding this could be appreciated by the people who feel they need it. I'm not sure why you're so against the idea of giving people that option, as I doubt it would affect you in any way. It's not like we're trying to rebuild society. Even jumping to the conclusion that Dmpstrbaby is an SJW, it's not like they're completely wrong, the main problem with them is their motive. Speaking of motives, what's your motive to NOT having this fourth option? Does the fact some people see their own gender differently offend you so much you need to regulate their opinions of themselves? That form of self-gratification iskin't far from an SJW. Um, I already wrote earlier that I'm totally fine with a simple "other" option or a split sex/gender option. Which doesn't change the fact that I think it's bullshit. |
Proud founder of the 20+ virgins club. Please visit my manga blog for manga updates and more! Mup da doo didda po mo muhfuggen bix nood ^ Need someone who can translate this. Pm me pls. |
May 9, 2015 7:32 PM
#233
I wouldn't use them anyway. |
Now you're wondering if there's white text in any of my other posts. Over there, I'm everywhere. I know that. |
May 9, 2015 7:51 PM
#234
Shiratori99 said: LunarProxy said: Shiratori99 said: Are you for real? You sound like the parody of a typical SJW lol Don't overlook the fact that this is an extremely easy change assuming 'other' was added, and adkiding this could be appreciated by the people who feel they need it. I'm not sure why you're so against the idea of giving people that option, as I doubt it would affect you in any way. It's not like we're trying to rebuild society. Even jumping to the conclusion that Dmpstrbaby is an SJW, it's not like they're completely wrong, the main problem with them is their motive. Speaking of motives, what's your motive to NOT having this fourth option? Does the fact some people see their own gender differently offend you so much you need to regulate their opinions of themselves? That form of self-gratification iskin't far from an SJW. Um, I already wrote earlier that I'm totally fine with a simple "other" option or a split sex/gender option. Which doesn't change the fact that I think it's bullshit. ...Okay, what? You're fine with it, but you're against it? Well, I think I get what you mean. I disagree with you, but at least you're not dismissing the whole idea. |
May 9, 2015 8:28 PM
#235
LunarProxy said: Shiratori99 said: LunarProxy said: Shiratori99 said: Are you for real? You sound like the parody of a typical SJW lol Don't overlook the fact that this is an extremely easy change assuming 'other' was added, and adkiding this could be appreciated by the people who feel they need it. I'm not sure why you're so against the idea of giving people that option, as I doubt it would affect you in any way. It's not like we're trying to rebuild society. Even jumping to the conclusion that Dmpstrbaby is an SJW, it's not like they're completely wrong, the main problem with them is their motive. Speaking of motives, what's your motive to NOT having this fourth option? Does the fact some people see their own gender differently offend you so much you need to regulate their opinions of themselves? That form of self-gratification iskin't far from an SJW. Um, I already wrote earlier that I'm totally fine with a simple "other" option or a split sex/gender option. Which doesn't change the fact that I think it's bullshit. ...Okay, what? You're fine with it, but you're against it? Well, I think I get what you mean. I disagree with you, but at least you're not dismissing the whole idea. I'm just against a general gender box where you can fill in blank text. And arguing for the fun of it. |
Proud founder of the 20+ virgins club. Please visit my manga blog for manga updates and more! Mup da doo didda po mo muhfuggen bix nood ^ Need someone who can translate this. Pm me pls. |
May 9, 2015 10:39 PM
#236
I do agree a fill-in box is a bad idea. I get what you mean now. The fill-in box is a popular idea, but I think it's more popular since you can put dumb 'genders' in there. For example, I've seen Tentacle Monster in this thread twice just glancing earlier. So, I don't have much else to add here, that covers all of my opinion of the matter. |
May 9, 2015 10:48 PM
#237
Oh my, I think we should remove the Gender options since it is offensive towards genderless people. |
May 10, 2015 1:01 AM
#238
kitsune0 said: I specified my gender only because it annoys me when I see "Not specified" on my profile. That's exactly how we feel! Having 'Not Specified' on their profile might annoy other users too. What's even more annoying is when your gender isn't there so your "only" option is to have 'Not Specified'. Rephrasing that: they don't want to have 'Not Specified'-- they're annoyed by it just as you are-- but they can't do anything about it at this point. THAT is why we want this option so they CAN do something about it. Now personally, I prefer a fill-in-the-blank option because regardless of any possible abuse, this would be a catch all, win all, end all. Nothing would ever have to be done or added later no matter HOW society changes. This fill-in-the-blank gender system works just fine on other sites. No confusion, no fuss, and no frustration. For anyone who's for this, please consider letting the developers know in this thread since they're working on profile updates and taking suggestions about them NOW: http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1381274&show=0 |
May 10, 2015 7:29 AM
#239
Swiggy said: But I'm not bitchin' about it, so no, don't try to mix me with your whining losers.That's exactly how we feel! Having 'Not Specified' on their profile might annoy other users too. What's even more annoying is when your gender isn't there so your "only" option is to have 'Not Specified'. Rephrasing that: they don't want to have 'Not Specified'-- they're annoyed by it just as you are-- but they can't do anything about it at this point. THAT is why we want this option so they CAN do something about it. It annoys me as some unneeded (to me) option that still shows up even when left without choice. And with that we logically coming to this: worldeditor11 said: Totally agreed, this would be a catch all, win all, end all. Nothing would ever have to be done or added later no matter HOW society changes. No confusion, no fuss, and no frustration.I think we should remove the Gender option Seriously, democracy for all, equality for all! |
May 10, 2015 8:27 AM
#240
Just go "Not Specified" |
Take care of yourself |
May 10, 2015 10:01 AM
#241
kitsune0 said: Swiggy said: But I'm not bitchin' about it, so no, don't try to mix me with your whining losers.That's exactly how we feel! Having 'Not Specified' on their profile might annoy other users too. What's even more annoying is when your gender isn't there so your "only" option is to have 'Not Specified'. Rephrasing that: they don't want to have 'Not Specified'-- they're annoyed by it just as you are-- but they can't do anything about it at this point. THAT is why we want this option so they CAN do something about it. It annoys me as some unneeded (to me) option that still shows up even when left without choice. And with that we logically coming to this: worldeditor11 said: Totally agreed, this would be a catch all, win all, end all. Nothing would ever have to be done or added later no matter HOW society changes. No confusion, no fuss, and no frustration.I think we should remove the Gender option Seriously, democracy for all, equality for all! "I specified my gender only because it annoys me when I see 'Not specified' on my profile" is the same thing we'd like regardless of why you feel that way. Because as it is now, you can specify your gender, and you have. You don't want the gender option on your profile? Yo! A fill-in-the blank option would work in your favor as well then! On other sites with a fill-in-the-blank gender option, if you don't fill in the section, it just doesn't show up. Still a catch all, win all, end all. I'm not against taking away the gender option altogether either, but I recognize that just because I wouldn't want it there doesn't mean no one else wants it. No need for name-calling, Kitsune. I wouldn't say we're bitching; we're simply making a suggestion and pushing for it. We won't cry if this doesn't go through because we've already had to make due without it; but it would be nice to have especially since they're updating profiles anyway and taking suggestions for exactly this type of thing. That's just what the suggestion board is for. |
May 10, 2015 11:01 AM
#242
Swiggy said: kitsune0 said: Swiggy said: That's exactly how we feel! Having 'Not Specified' on their profile might annoy other users too. What's even more annoying is when your gender isn't there so your "only" option is to have 'Not Specified'. Rephrasing that: they don't want to have 'Not Specified'-- they're annoyed by it just as you are-- but they can't do anything about it at this point. THAT is why we want this option so they CAN do something about it. It annoys me as some unneeded (to me) option that still shows up even when left without choice. And with that we logically coming to this: worldeditor11 said: I think we should remove the Gender option Seriously, democracy for all, equality for all! "I specified my gender only because it annoys me when I see 'Not specified' on my profile" is the same thing we'd like regardless of why you feel that way. Because as it is now, you can specify your gender, and you have. You don't want the gender option on your profile? Yo! A fill-in-the blank option would work in your favor as well then! On other sites with a fill-in-the-blank gender option, if you don't fill in the section, it just doesn't show up. Still a catch all, win all, end all. I'm not against taking away the gender option altogether either, but I recognize that just because I wouldn't want it there doesn't mean no one else wants it. No need for name-calling, Kitsune. I wouldn't say we're bitching; we're simply making a suggestion and pushing for it. We won't cry if this doesn't go through because we've already had to make due without it; but it would be nice to have especially since they're updating profiles anyway and taking suggestions for exactly this type of thing. That's just what the suggestion board is for. How can a fill-in box be a win-all if the main opposition to adding more genders is because of all the bull people could enter? Instead of being informative, it's more likely to become some kind of joke. I'd rather stay where we are now than go all the way to a fill-in box. |
May 10, 2015 2:22 PM
#243
"Why should we give black ppl the right to sit in the front of the bus? I'm a white male and I sit in front all the time and it's nothing special." That's exactly what you ppl sound like. |
May 10, 2015 2:45 PM
#244
Dmpstrbaby said: "Why should we give black ppl the right to sit in the front of the bus? I'm a white male and I sit in front all the time and it's nothing special." That's exactly what you ppl sound like. Who does? Nobody has been against an 'other' option. It's the fill-in box that people are arguing about. We could add options for all of the genders between, I guess, but I sure don't know all of them, so my input as far as that's concerned is neutral. If the gender box became a joke, then it's not really a practical thing to have. Just look at people's MSN/AIM/Yahoo fields. |
May 10, 2015 3:08 PM
#245
Why change? Not Specified is almost the same as "Neither" or "Other". And there's just two (three) genders/sex, male and female (and our friends futa). The rest is sexual orientation/option. Decoys said: why is this thread still alive.... male = you have a penis or you identify as male female = you have a vagina or you identify as female if you are neither too bad. Don't disclose your gender then. Like +1 |
May 10, 2015 3:21 PM
#246
Decoys said: why is this thread still alive.... male = you have a penis or you identify as male female = you have a vagina or you identify as female if you are neither too bad. Don't disclose your gender then. So you just wanna give those people that feel differently the shaft? What's so terrible about adding an 'other' option at all? There's no real controversy with 'other' itself. It can't be abused, it doesn't detract from anything. Not to mention it's a small and easy change. |
May 11, 2015 12:33 AM
#247
LunarProxy said: Hi Lunar. Sorry this is a bit late! How can a fill-in box be a win-all if the main opposition to adding more genders is because of all the bull people could enter? Instead of being informative, it's more likely to become some kind of joke. I'd rather stay where we are now than go all the way to a fill-in box. Really, I just don't see how the fill-in-the-blank system being used as a joke by some users makes other users lose out on anything. All that really matters is if users who want to use the section for its intended purpose can do so. Like I've said before, people type imaginary locations into the location section all the time, so by that reasoning it should be done away with too even though there are still many users who type in their actual location. I feel we're losing more information with 'not specified', because there are a lot of people who would gladly specify. If those people can now specify their gender, we're gaining more information. Having the fill-in-the-blank won't make everyone suddenly want to type in 'tentacle monster'. On other sites with fill-in-the-blank gender sections, users usually seem to type in their gender or just leave it blank so the gender section doesn't appear at all (much like our location section). Sure you get the few people who type in the "I am [gender here]" slot something like, "I am 'me'", but the amount of users who use it (or choose not to use it) outweigh those folks by a lot; I think that's all that really matters. I'm actually fine with just adding 'other' as well, but I can tell you now that it won't be an end all. Really hesitating to point this out, but the term 'other'/'othered' has a very negative connotation in most communities. I'd rather just avoid the future backlash and go fill-in-the-blank now. And adding a bunch more genders on the list won't work in the end. Fill-in-the-blank will hold up no matter what happens, and that's pretty much why I'm emphasizing that, with or without a group of users abusing the feature, there will never be a reason for users to ask for anything more from the gender section ever again if it's fill-in-the-blank. If we can find another all encompassing word besides 'other' then I think that'd be fine. |
May 11, 2015 3:43 PM
#248
alright, alright, I get the OP point and most people in favour but is this really that necessary? If it is then just add an "other" option and then specify if you want in the "about me! section... just, not the 'fill-in' option. |
May 12, 2015 8:47 AM
#249
kitsune0 said: oktavia-12 said: Yay, so it's like with homosexuality - it doesn't need any scientific proofs, it's enough to be just stated and we've done!Wtf scientific studies do you want? It's definitions ffs. They don't need scientific proof. No proofs = your own personal feelings = bullshit. No proof in your favour either, buddy. So uh, no proof = your personal feelings = bullshit lolololol (ノ´∀`*) Also did you just imply being gay is a myth lmao |
remaking my signature! lol I never actually ended up remaking it, oop. ; ; |
May 12, 2015 6:44 PM
#250
CC said: kitsune0 said: oktavia-12 said: Wtf scientific studies do you want? It's definitions ffs. They don't need scientific proof. No proofs = your own personal feelings = bullshit. No proof in your favour either, buddy. So uh, no proof = your personal feelings = bullshit lolololol (ノ´∀`*) Also did you just imply being gay is a myth lmao I doubt Kitsune0 actually understand much about "science". Seem to a word he just throws out there when lacking arguments to back up his bigotry. |
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by Alexioos95
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Apr 18, 10:22 AM |