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Sub vs. Dub
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View Poll Results: Which do you prefer?
Only subs - original audio is best.
 
1072 47.86%
Mostly subbed, some dubbed.
 
636 28.39%
Only dubbed - I like it in my native language.
 
55 2.46%
Mostly dubbed, some subbed.
 
178 7.95%
Both subbed and dubbed equally.
 
247 11.03%
Raw.
 
52 2.32%
Voters: 2240

10-17-10, 11:05 PM

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Mostly dubbed...
I only go for subbed anime when
-the dubbing is awful...
-the anime hasn't been dubbed and apparently won't be, either...
-if the dub is expected, but I'm too impatient to wait for it...
(Hey, just my personal preference; Not that I have anything against subbed anime)
 
10-18-10, 5:47 AM

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subbed EVER ¡
 
10-18-10, 5:51 AM

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It all depends on what I am watching. I mean if the original voices are too hard to tell apart, I find a dub and, vice versa.
 
10-18-10, 5:55 AM

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Always subs ^_^
 
10-18-10, 8:08 AM

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Aww, lightcircus, u mad? <3

Seriously, it's all They Changed It Now It Sucks with you, and very few legitimate arguments surrounded by a barrage of insults and assumptions.

Try harder next time, ah? <3
Modified by Kuyu, 10-18-10, 10:45 AM
You can find me on IRC.
 
10-18-10, 10:54 AM

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lightcircus said:
Yeah, nice assumption, you fucking idiot. That pretty much sums up the thought process that many hopelessly stupid people in this thread possess, including yourself.


After reading your first sentence I decided it's not worth to even read the second. I don't care about differences in opinions. But I won't waste my time on someone who will most likely just insult everyone who disagrees (Based on your first sentence, which just happens to be the first impression because it's the first sentence...etc).
I can't say anything about your arguments, but your rhetoric SUCKS if you start your speech with a bunch of insults. Noone will listen to you or take you serious after that.
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Ratohnhaketon said:
I can hear the anti-SOL purists gathering outside with their plotforks.


The mind is a terrible thing to waste,
I show love 'cause it's a terrible thing to hate.
 
10-18-10, 11:15 AM

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lightcircus said:
Having read that (hopefully), do you honestly think the "voice actors" involved in the English dub for a particular show ever experience anything like that? Fuck no. Most of these cunts don't even take the source material seriously (or, more importantly, even have the mental capacity to do so). Half of these guys finish their work on an anime series and run off to do voicework for something as challenging as Ben 10. Yeah, I bet they take their work real seriously - especially when you throw their salaries into the equation.


So just because these people take work where it is offered (Because it is a well known fact that, for the most part, the pay for an anime voice actor really isn't all that great) that makes them not passionate about the work they do for an anime? Just because some fanboy might get upset because they broaden their range, that should stop them from putting food on the table or a roof over their heads? And you're calling others idiots? What about all the Japanese voice actors that do voice acting for erotic games? Does that mean that they don't take their work passionatly?

lightcircus said:
2) Cultural Differences
This one shouldn't need much explanation. Let me try to drill this into your empty fucking heads one more time: These shows were made in Japanese. These shows were made to appeal to a Japanese audience and their specific culture - not yours. Context is huge here. When you take one of these shows and dub it in English, you are throwing all of that out the fucking window. Even with English subtitles, something is lost. It is impossible to completely retain the original meaning when going from Japanese to English.


So... If the directors of anime are okay with it (I remember reading about one in particular when asked if he was okay with his series being dubbed he said "My work was not meant to be read, but heard. It is also to be enjoyed by anyone who it appeals to.") why the heck should you not be? I mean, the director of Fullmetal Alchemist actually prefered Vic's voice to the original Japanese. Yes, that is some epic fail right there -_-

I stopped reading at this point since it is obvious where this is going, and I've already seen it all before. Good luck on your mission against english dubs :/

Here's a question for you. You say that these shows are Japanese and thus, should stay Japanese, correct? So what about anime based in other countries? Like Black Lagoon or Monster? Should they not be dubbed in Chinese or German because they are made by Japan, although it is based in their home country?
Modified by Kipcha, 10-18-10, 1:45 PM


 
10-18-10, 11:27 AM

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lightcircus said:
ENGLISH DUBS ARE INFERIOR GET OVER IT



Honestly, I think you're the one that needs to "get over" something.
 
10-18-10, 11:32 AM

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SUBS! Dubbed Anime can sometimes be so BAD, you end up laughing at their failed voice acting.

The only good English Dub voice actor i can think of, is Vic Mignogna


 
10-18-10, 1:27 PM

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lightcircus said:

The anime industry in Japan is very different from America or Europe or whatever shitty place in the world you live in that happens to think stealing someone's work, shitting on it and re-selling it in such a butchered form is a good idea.


Hey! Don't call others countiers shitty places!
You may not agree with other opnions, I also love to watch with subs more than dubs. but:

1) Dubbing in certain countries is part of the culture. In USA or in Germany You'll find it difficult to find a series that isn't in the local lanuage (English of German). So don't kill people for that. (Even though I can't understand this).
2) You said that dubbing make one not see things that special for the Japanese language, and the same it subs. But we can't all learn now Japanese, and I don't imigine 5 yeard old child watch anime of any other series which it isn't with his/her local language.

That's all


 
10-19-10, 7:52 PM

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lightcircus said:
Yeah, nice assumption, you fucking idiot. That pretty much sums up the thought process that many hopelessly stupid people in this thread possess, including yours.

Man you got issues.....I stated in my last post dude Bleach,Black Lagoon,sCRyED,FMA,
FMA:Brotherhood these particular animes I just mentioned are pretty good DUBBED you MORON,DUBBED......and next time when you gonna do a rant.......YA DO IT RIGHT!!!!!
 
10-19-10, 8:14 PM

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Next time someone starts slinging insults, I'm going to have to be unpleasant. Most of you probably don't want to see that. So chill out and be cool to each other.
 
10-19-10, 9:00 PM

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lightcircus said:
TokyoCandlelight said:

lightcircus said:
I bet you do the youtube fandub thing don't you

lightcircus said:
But you would if you got the chance, wouldn't you? It sounds fun, doesn't it?

Not that it's any of my business, but if I'd only watched 17 days of anime, I wouldn't start a battle of wits with someone who clearly knows what they're talking about more than I do. =/






1) The voice actors have little to no communication with the director or other important staff members involved in the creation of said work. The original staff generally doesn't even have anything to do with the English dub for their show.

THIS ALONE should be enough for anyone with half a fucking brain. Sadly, you could probably count the members possessing a fully-functioning brain on this site on maybe two hands. Then again, even that sounds like too much.

Back on-topic: An excellent example of how important communication with the original staff is when it comes to something like this is the final line in End of Evangelion. Most should be familiar with it... Even I am, and, apparently, I haven't even watched it! At least, that's what my fucking anime list says!

bet they take their work real seriously - especially when you throw their salaries into the equation.

2) Cultural Differences
This one shouldn't need much explanation. Let me try to drill this into your empty fucking heads one more time: These shows were made in Japanese. These shows were made to appeal to a Japanese audience and their specific culture - not yours. Context is huge here. When you take one of these shows and dub it in English, you are throwing all of that out the fucking window. Even with English subtitles, something is lost. It is impossible to completely retain the original meaning when going from Japanese to English.



3) Industry/Talent Pool Differences
This is one that somehow doesn't get mentioned in a lot of these arguments. That's probably why this argument of "subs vs dubs" has continued in various forms for so long. However, even when it is brought up, it flies right over the heads of people arguing in favor of English dubs, or they just pretend that the differences do not exist. Hell, this point has probably been brought up and subsequently ignored many times in this thread already, but I might as well go over it again since I have nothing better to do than to post a wall of text on an anime forum - both in an attempt to try to drill some obvious shit into the heads of a bunch of stupid women, and to alleviate boredom.

The anime industry in Japan is very different from America or Europe or whatever shitty place in the world you live in that happens to think stealing someone's work, shitting on it and re-selling it in such a butchered form is a good idea. In Japan, voicing the main character for a popular anime series is a much bigger deal than it is over here. You get a paid a lot more than you do over here, and there is an insane amount of competition. Watch REC if you want some insight into this shit that is easily digestable for your stupid ass. In America, the most you have to worry about as far as competition goes is a bunch of fat weeaboos who hone their skills by making youtube fandubs. In America, anime gets the shit at the bottom of the barrel.



4) ENGLISH DUBBING QUALITY AS A WHOLE
This is something that almost NEVER gets brought up in these arguments. Why? Probably because most of you idiots are deaf. Remember when I said this a long time ago?
lightcircus said:
Maybe, just maybe, there are people in this world that are familiar with both languages and prefer the original japanese audio because the English is, in almost every case, BLATANTLY INFERIOR TO THE ORIGINAL WORK.

The bolded part is what you need to focus on here. I said that because, despite the talent pool being a joke outside of Japan, good (or, at least, not entirely incompetent) voice actors DO EXIST. I am not denying the existence of competent English voice actors. However, anime does not see many of them, for reasons I have already explained. Despite this, there are English dubs that receive almost nothing but praise from all sides. The most obvious example is, no doubt, Cowboy Bebop. I don't think I've ever seen a "sub vs dub" argument in which this series was not mentioned at least once, and almost always in an attempt to defend dubs. "Hey, at least this one is good! No one can disagree on that!" It's true that many of the characters are voiced competently in the English version. It's true that many of the voice actors fit their roles well. Even Shinichiro Watanabe has allegedly said that he prefers the English dub to the Japanese (I don't know how true this is and frankly I find it difficult to believe).

However, there is one HUGE difference in quality between the Japanese and the English audio tracks that absolutely can not be argued: Foley. Do some a/b switching on this shit and if you aren't wearing fucking iPod earbuds (I assume most of you are since no one who watches dubs ever notices this), you will hear the difference. The background noises/ambient effects/etc are a joke. The quality in general is a joke. Even the music suffers in the English audio track. The last thing that should be damaged in a series like Cowboy Bebop is the god damn music - and yet, it was. That says a lot about the anime industry here. In fact, I think that says all that really needs to be said, but I'm going to go just one step further.

5) Moé
English dubbing might have worked in the past, but if you honestly think that English dubs of the shit coming out now (almost all of which incorporate some aspects of moé) can ever come close to the original Japanese, you are fucking beyond help. Many Japanese women were gifted (or cursed, if you're a bitter old hag) with the ability to make sugar come out of their fucking voice boxes. Women over here... were not. This is painfully obvious in many of the more recent English dubs. Many of the wrinkly old hags attempt this same thing that Japanese women do and fail miserably. I'm not saying that makes these women entirely inferior; I'm simply saying that this is where their limit lies. You can not imitate this shit. You can only attempt it (and fail) or butcher the show even further by removing these aspects entirely. BOTH SUCK.

In closing,
ENGLISH DUBS ARE INFERIOR GET OVER IT

1. That depends on the studio, or dub director. Usually people like Funimation make you a little familiar of the character your auditioning for.

I know for a fact that Bang Zoom are usually familiar with their characters.

2. Your aware of Black Lagoon, and Panty, and Stocking right? Both (While one isn't dubbed) have heavy American appeal. Now something like Gintama is where something has literally to much references that companies just sub it, then there are cases like Sgt. Frog where they rewrite some cases, and it somewhat works.

3. May I remind you of Mark Hamill, and other non-anime VA's? Even so VA's 3/4 of the time have had acting experience.

4. A/B? Thats your problem not a majority.

5. Soon to come K-ON! dub would like to you to take a seat.
 
10-20-10, 1:24 AM

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lightcircus said:
1) The voice actors have little to no communication with the director or other important staff members involved in the creation of said work. The original staff generally doesn't even have anything to do with the English dub for their show.

THIS ALONE should be enough for anyone with half a fucking brain.
Sure it'd be enough, if it were true. But it's not. Dubbing directors and actors will tell plenty of stories about how the Japanese producers wanted them to translate some term a certain way, getting dub casts approved, or of having to re-record several episodes of a dub because the Japanese side didn't like the actor's performance. (The latter happened with Johnny Yong Bosch and Yuri Lowenthal on Eureka 7.) The FLCL dub was produced with heavy Japanese involvement, which is the reason cited for it turning out so well. So was the Love Hina dub, which was the reason cited for it turning out so poorly.

Having read that (hopefully), do you honestly think the "voice actors" involved in the English dub for a particular show ever experience anything like that? Fuck no. Most of these cunts don't even take the source material seriously (or, more importantly, even have the mental capacity to do so). Half of these guys finish their work on an anime series and run off to do voicework for something as challenging as Ben 10. Yeah, I bet they take their work real seriously - especially when you throw their salaries into the equation.
Look at the writing credits for Ghost Stories, a show that many agree is more entertaining in English than Japanese. The main cast has co-writing credits for coming up with much of the dialogue, and "booth-rewrites" based on collaborations between the actors and directors are common. You seem to have a personal vendetta against dub actors... Have you ever met any of them, or at least watched YouTube videos of convention panels? I've had the pleasure of meeting quite a few, and while most aren't anime fans, they don't hate it, and they take it as seriously as the individual project can be taken. Chris Patton recounts having to do 26 takes of a generic surprised "huh?!" in RahXephon -- that tells me the director was taking the scene pretty damn seriously. Caitlin Glass and Vic Mignogna all but admitted to watching the Ouran HSHC fansubs prior to working on the show. Are these actresses not taking the end of Princess Tutu seriously??

These shows were made in Japanese. These shows were made to appeal to a Japanese audience and their specific culture - not yours. Context is huge here. When you take one of these shows and dub it in English, you are throwing all of that out the fucking window. Even with English subtitles, something is lost. It is impossible to completely retain the original meaning when going from Japanese to English.
Right, I'm sure shows like Afro Samurai, Trinity Blood, High School of the Dead, Gun x Sword, Hellsing, Desert Punk, Solty Rei, Trigun, Cowboy Bebop, Outlaw Star, Heat Guy J, Last Exile, Chrono Crusade, Baccano, and Burst Angel were produced without any thought to their appeal to overseas/Western markets. Even Pokemon had its "Japaneseness" toned down at the production level after they realized they had an international hit on their hands. You're right that the Japanese market is the primary focus, but it's not necessarily the only one.

And if it's impossible to retain the original meaning either way, what's so wrong with creating a product that's entertaining in the English language?

The anime industry in Japan is very different from America or Europe or whatever shitty place in the world you live in that happens to think stealing someone's work, shitting on it and re-selling it in such a butchered form is a good idea.
How is paying money to the Japanese companies, getting their approval on every little thing from dub casts to subtitle spelling, selling it with a more-or-less unaltered dub, and paying royalties to the original creators equivalent to "stealing someone's work and shitting on it"? And even the most butchered dubs (like the 4Kids stuff) could not have been made without the approval of the Japanese.

Watch REC if you want some insight into this shit that is easily digestable for your stupid ass.
Because anime always = reality of life in Japan.

Again, not the case in Japan. Sure, it's not the most lucrative business on Earth there either, but it's a hell of a lot more lucrative than it is over here.
Lucrative? (link NSFW) Most anime dub actors also work in other acting jobs or part-time day jobs as well. Japanese anime VAs also do a fair percentage of their acting work in the stealing/shitting/butchering localization field you decry -- dubbing US movies and TV shows into Japanese.

However, there is one HUGE difference in quality between the Japanese and the English audio tracks that absolutely can not be argued: Foley. Do some a/b switching on this shit and if you aren't wearing fucking iPod earbuds (I assume most of you are since no one who watches dubs ever notices this), you will hear the difference. The background noises/ambient effects/etc are a joke. The quality in general is a joke. Even the music suffers in the English audio track. The last thing that should be damaged in a series like Cowboy Bebop is the god damn music - and yet, it was.
What version of Cowboy Bebop are you testing on? Old DVD release? Remix DVD release? Some old over-compressed DVD-rip? A newer rip? Not saying you're right or wrong, just want to know what the test parameters are. But on the other hand, a lot of dubs get 5.1 surround mixes while the Japanese tracks are just 2.0 stereo.

English dubbing might have worked in the past, but if you honestly think that English dubs of the shit coming out now (almost all of which incorporate some aspects of moé) can ever come close to the original Japanese, you are fucking beyond help.
I'll agree that there is some fail in dubs of moe characters. But among people who don't hate dubs a priori, the dubs for Air, Kanon '06, Haruhi, and Lucky Star have all received high praise. Carrie Savage was far more moe as the title character of Solty Rei than whoever played her in Japanese. And a lot of the moe anime coming out these days like Hidamari Sketch isn't even getting dubbed to begin with.

Maybe, just maybe, there are people in this world that are familiar with both languages and prefer the original Japanese audio because the English is, in almost every case, BLATANTLY INFERIOR TO THE ORIGINAL WORK. There are many reasons for this:
I can accept that. But can you accept that some people may be familiar with both languages, perfectly capable of reading and following subtitles, yet still prefer the English tracks for reasons completely unrelated to mental deficiencies? Maybe they don't like the sound of ultra-cute Japanese voices. Maybe they connect better with the visuals and characters when the audio's in their language. I often find dubs more appealing because of the scriptwriting -- English is a lexically richer language, and Japanese writing is filled with repeated stock anime dialogue that gets old after awhile. Uninspired or overliteral subtitles (in both fansubs and official subs) don't help the matter.

And even if something is "blatantly inferior" to something else, that doesn't make it objectively bad. If Japanese dubs are a 10 and English ones are an 8, does that make them awful?
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10-20-10, 2:05 AM

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lightcircus said:
Even with English subtitles, something is lost. It is impossible to completely retain the original meaning when going from Japanese to English.

If you know that, then go watch raw instead. Watch raw = no need to wait for fansubbers and no meaning is lost in the subtitles

lightcircus said:

5) Moé
English dubbing might have worked in the past, but if you honestly think that English dubs of the shit coming out now (almost all of which incorporate some aspects of moé) can ever come close to the original Japanese, you are fucking beyond help. Many Japanese women were gifted (or cursed, if you're a bitter old hag) with the ability to make sugar come out of their fucking voice boxes. Women over here... were not. This is painfully obvious in many of the more recent English dubs. Many of the wrinkly old hags attempt this same thing that Japanese women do and fail miserably. I'm not saying that makes these women entirely inferior; I'm simply saying that this is where their limit lies. You can not imitate this shit. You can only attempt it (and fail) or butcher the show even further by removing these aspects entirely. BOTH SUCK.

If this is true, then I might be able to watch more moe2 shows if I watch in English dubs instead. God, moe2 voice is awfully annoying.
 
10-20-10, 3:06 AM

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Why keep replying to someone who obviously prefers Insults over a rational debate? Wasted effort imo...
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Ratohnhaketon said:
I can hear the anti-SOL purists gathering outside with their plotforks.


The mind is a terrible thing to waste,
I show love 'cause it's a terrible thing to hate.
 
10-20-10, 3:12 AM

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mostly subbed all the way but if any of the characters have Blum, Steven as the voice actor cause i like him on big O as Rodger smith
 
10-20-10, 5:21 AM

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lightcircus said:

5) Moé
English dubbing might have worked in the past, but if you honestly think that English dubs of the shit coming out now (almost all of which incorporate some aspects of moé) can ever come close to the original Japanese, you are fucking beyond help. Many Japanese women were gifted (or cursed, if you're a bitter old hag) with the ability to make sugar come out of their fucking voice boxes. Women over here... were not.

Sugar come out of their voice boxes, I like that analogy. One of the reasons I like subs is I like the sound of the voices even though I know barely any Japanese. Still, I'll say again for like the third time in this forum that I don't care what people like, we don't need to argue over this. Let people prefer sub or dub. Who cares anyway?
 
10-21-10, 7:13 AM

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If you were to dub an anime, that wouldn't make Japan any special anymore :( Anime is a part of Japan. SUB IS FOREVER WIN! DUB GTFO.
 
10-21-10, 7:46 AM

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Ok listen up, every single person who voted "Sub only" are out of their minds. Subs suck. Here is why, I assume when ya voted sub ya include official and fan subs. This rant is directed at fans of fan subs. DON’T TRUST THEM! Fan Subs are amateur translations and can at times be totally off the script. It’s better to watch dub and know what is being said is accurate to some degree instead of trust amateurs to translate speech to text. Plus there are alot of good dubbed anime.
Proud supporter of the anti-piracy actions. Respect the industry, only contribute to the industry. BUY ANIME!
 
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