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gabyta07 said: http://teachingandlearningcreativity.wordpress.com/2014/09/30/an-analytical-analysis-of-ghoul-the-season-finale-of-tokyo-ghoul/ A very complete analysis that I found of Tokyo Ghoul and its aspects psychoanalytic that are a plenty really awesome write up. i wish i was more into psychology to know what other aspects Ishida applied but this furthers the amazement i have for how detailed and meticulous this story and its characters are. |
| "Events that happen in this world are a continuous series of trifling things. And within those myriad pieces of puzzles, there is a fragment that leads to the truth." -Kishou Arima |
anikaneki said: Chaos_Reaper said: Lol thank you, but in the end, we are talking about Ishida-sensei here. God knows what he might do. And Amon as serpent is not possible. Eto was really interested in Amon. Don't think she will cut him loose so easily. Also, everyone is thinking that haise/kaneki probably come to save mitsuki. Who knows serpent will be the one showing up or most likely, mitsuki will try to take care of him with her kagune which maybe is bikaku. She won't be able to fight him, and then hopefully haise will jump out of no where click his fingers like kaneki which will be the end of the chapter, and we all will be like " HE IS KANEKI!!!!! and wait for chapter 6 to confirm -.- why not go for the gold? urie and sharkboy show up just as haise begins to fight or maybe before he shows up but ultimately the chapter shows haise fighting and the savagery beneath his easygoing exterior, the torso turns out to be nishiki, and haise kills him as he tries to get sasaki(kaneki) to remember him. the fear of a friend is being forgotten. fear of the torso....boom wait wait wait why nishiki?? what is your reason or theory that nishiki might be torso??. MuggleBorn said: Chaos_Reaper said: it is random, but I think it's possible, Also, hair style sort of look like him. Funny thing is hinami also calls him torso lol. Usually, ghouls don't call each other by their code names,right?? that's like a hint that he might be a known character. As for serpent, it's probably nishiki. Kimi had a scar on her shoulder.According, to our haise-kun here, torso attack girls with scar. Maybe kimi was attacked or maybe even dead. So serpent is looking for revenge. That also clears out one more thing. Tsukiyama didn't like scars. When he looked at kimi's scar, he was like "what is this ugly scar??" he wasn't going on "fantastica" or something which he usually says. so stop dragging poor Tsukiyama in everything. Yeah Serpent could be either one of two Nishki OR Amon. I mean we don't really know if Kimi is dead for now so it COULD be either one of them...I personally hope it's Amon cause I want him back in the light damnit Didn't know amon had so many fans, but you know what, it would be great if his personality changed from being a cry baby to something aggressive. he was badass even as human, but he was whiny. amon vs that priest would be fun too. gabyta07 said: http://teachingandlearningcreativity.wordpress.com/2014/09/30/an-analytical-analysis-of-ghoul-the-season-finale-of-tokyo-ghoul/ A very complete analysis that I found of Tokyo Ghoul and its aspects psychoanalytic that are a plenty This was interesting. |
| @anikaneki and @chaos reaper, yes it is right? I know a little bit of psychoanalysis myself but not this much, its incredible how much you could undercover with this. Plus I think, since Sen Takatsuki is clearly an inspiration from Murakami (the author of Kafka in the shore) and that Murakami writes his novels with a lot of psychoanalysis characteristics and we can see Kaneki quoting Jeung, and thne Ishida-sensei quoting Demian by Herman Hesse another psychoanalitic work, I think we can say that Ishida-sensei likes psychoanalysis :D A little while ago I was talking to a user, and he said that Kaneki's centipede form has a bikaku and not a rinkaku, which I don't agree with, but I was just wondering how many believe in this supposition? Do you think is possible? |
| "It's like Tolstoy said. Happiness is an allegory, unhappiness a story" "And the sense of tragedy-according to Aristotle.comes, ironically enough, not from the protagonist's weak points but from his good qualities. Do you know what I'm getting at? People are drawn deeper into tragedy not by their defects but by their virtues" Kafka on the shore by Haruki Murakami...the man that was the inspiration for Sen Takatsuki |
Chaos_Reaper said: Didn't know amon had so many fans, but you know what, it would be great if his personality changed from being a cry baby to something aggressive. he was badass even as human, but he was whiny. amon vs that priest would be fun too. Amon's probably the second most popular character behind Kaneki. How is Amon whiny? I honestly can't think of a single time in TG where I would consider him "whiny". All I remember is him being a complete badass. |
gabyta07 said: A little while ago I was talking to a user, and he said that Kaneki's centipede form has a bikaku and not a rinkaku, which I don't agree with, but I was just wondering how many believe in this supposition? Do you think is possible? No its a rinkaku. The kagune just clads over the body taking a specific form other than that the attacks are similar to their specific types. CNTRI715 said: Chaos_Reaper said: Didn't know amon had so many fans, but you know what, it would be great if his personality changed from being a cry baby to something aggressive. he was badass even as human, but he was whiny. amon vs that priest would be fun too. Amon's probably the second most popular character behind Kaneki. How is Amon whiny? I honestly can't think of a single time in TG where I would consider him "whiny". All I remember is him being a complete badass. I think he's referring to the scenes where cries after losing comrades(Mado and some other guy in the beginning). But I don't see how that's bad though. |
Z4KNov 7, 2014 11:33 AM
gabyta07 said: @anikaneki and @chaos reaper, yes it is right? I know a little bit of psychoanalysis myself but not this much, its incredible how much you could undercover with this. Plus I think, since Sen Takatsuki is clearly an inspiration from Murakami (the author of Kafka in the shore) and that Murakami writes his novels with a lot of psychoanalysis characteristics and we can see Kaneki quoting Jeung, and thne Ishida-sensei quoting Demian by Herman Hesse another psychoanalitic work, I think we can say that Ishida-sensei likes psychoanalysis :D A little while ago I was talking to a user, and he said that Kaneki's centipede form has a bikaku and not a rinkaku, which I don't agree with, but I was just wondering how many believe in this supposition? Do you think is possible? Only one of Murakami's works I've read is Wind Up Bird Chronicle, which I really liked. Definitely want to read Kafka on the Shore because everyone says good things about it. Kankei's centipede form is a kakuja, so I don't think it classifies as any of the other kagune types. My take on it is that there are the four base types of kagune and a kakuja is kind of a fifth "ultimate form" you can gain alongside your original one. |
Z4k said: gabyta07 said: A little while ago I was talking to a user, and he said that Kaneki's centipede form has a bikaku and not a rinkaku, which I don't agree with, but I was just wondering how many believe in this supposition? Do you think is possible? No its a rinkaku. The kagune just clads over the body taking a specific form other than that the attacks are similar to their specific types. Yes that's what I thought, I just found his supposition so interesting and we might say original, that it baffled me. He also said he believed that since Eto has 6 kokahous, she might have different kagunes stored, meaning that ukaku, bikaku, rinkaku something like that. I think that's how he thought Kaneki might have a bikaku during centiped mode since he thinks that Kaneki has more than one Kokahou. Edit: @CNTRI715 Well my supposition was that a kakuja is another state, all this discussion came out, bc at first Kaneki had 3 tentacles and at the end he had 8. I believed since his kakuja is 50% completed, he is able to use his rinkaku as he always does in ghoul state but he can also use abilities of a kakuja. I compared to a teenager, not an adult, not a child, and that is why his voice go from low to deep, the same I think happens to Kaneki, his rinkaku is trying to envelope him to take kakuja form, but since its 50& completed, he can also used it as a normal rinkaku. Also the reason we see 3 to 8 tentacles, I believe its bc Kaneki has major control on the rinkaku than before and he is able to divide it more. Like cutting a celery :9 Although I could be wrong and thinking too much about it :D |
gabyta07Nov 7, 2014 11:43 AM
| "It's like Tolstoy said. Happiness is an allegory, unhappiness a story" "And the sense of tragedy-according to Aristotle.comes, ironically enough, not from the protagonist's weak points but from his good qualities. Do you know what I'm getting at? People are drawn deeper into tragedy not by their defects but by their virtues" Kafka on the shore by Haruki Murakami...the man that was the inspiration for Sen Takatsuki |
CNTRI715 said: gabyta07 said: @anikaneki and @chaos reaper, yes it is right? I know a little bit of psychoanalysis myself but not this much, its incredible how much you could undercover with this. Plus I think, since Sen Takatsuki is clearly an inspiration from Murakami (the author of Kafka in the shore) and that Murakami writes his novels with a lot of psychoanalysis characteristics and we can see Kaneki quoting Jeung, and thne Ishida-sensei quoting Demian by Herman Hesse another psychoanalitic work, I think we can say that Ishida-sensei likes psychoanalysis :D A little while ago I was talking to a user, and he said that Kaneki's centipede form has a bikaku and not a rinkaku, which I don't agree with, but I was just wondering how many believe in this supposition? Do you think is possible? Only one of Murakami's works I've read is Wind Up Bird Chronicle, which I really liked. Definitely want to read Kafka on the Shore because everyone says good things about it. Kankei's centipede form is a kakuja, so I don't think it classifies as any of the other kagune types. My take on it is that there are the four base types of kagune and a kakuja is kind of a fifth "ultimate form" you can gain alongside your original one. I found that Kakuja part about your post interesting. Perhaps the true forms of the ghouls are their kakuja forms? Maybe the monsters Kaneki referring to in chapter 1 could be the Kakuja forms. |
Z4KNov 7, 2014 11:48 AM
gabyta07 said: Z4k said: No its a rinkaku. The kagune just clads over the body taking a specific form other than that the attacks are similar to their specific types. Yes that's what I thought, I just found his supposition so interesting and we might say original, that it baffled me. He also said he believed that since Eto has 6 kokahous, she might have different kagunes stored, meaning that ukaku, bikaku, rinkaku something like that. I think that's how he thought Kaneki might have a bikaku during centiped mode since he thinks that Kaneki has more than one Kokahou. Edit: @CNTRI715 Well my supposition was that a kakuja is another state, all this discussion came out, bc at first Kaneki had 3 tentacles and at the end he had 8. I believed since his kakuja is 50% completed, he is able to use his rinkaku as he always does in ghoul state but he can also use abilities of a kakuja. I compared to a teenager, not an adult, not a child, and that is why his voice go from low to deep, the same I think happens to Kaneki, his rinkaku is trying to envelope him to take kakuja form, but since its 50& completed, he can also used it as a normal rinkaku. Also the reason we see 3 to 8 tentacles, I believe its bc Kaneki has major control on the rinkaku than before and he is able to divide it more. Like cutting a celery :9 Although I could be wrong and thinking too much about it :D according to Shinohara, Kaneki actually have more than one kakuhou, this must be due to cannibalism, but just because a ghoul develops more than one kakuhou, does not make it a different kind. |
Chaos_Reaper said: Amon's probably the second most popular character behind Kaneki. How is Amon whiny? I honestly can't think of a single time in TG where I would consider him "whiny". All I remember is him being a complete badass. Try again, he came in 11th in the character popularity poll. Even here on mal he has only 31 favorites. Kaneki, Touka, Tsukiyama obviously are a lot popular than him. And a complete badass, he was far from a complete badass like the likes of Arima is or even a badass. I could've sworn I saw him get his ass handed to him more than he actually owning people? Also, personally I'm indifferent to him, he has likable features, but the fact he adored and respected Mado and let him torture ghouls even the likes of Ryouko made it impossible for me to ever like him. Also like others I don't think Serpent is Amon. Cause of the fact that Serpent took out some investigators. That just doesn't fit with Amon, and him being another Kaneki/Sasaki with amnesia would be just to dull writing. Let alone that it wouldn't explain why while having amnesia he is still hunting ghouls. |
mugiwara84 said: Chaos_Reaper said: Amon's probably the second most popular character behind Kaneki. How is Amon whiny? I honestly can't think of a single time in TG where I would consider him "whiny". All I remember is him being a complete badass. Try again, he came in 11th in the character popularity poll. Even here on mal he has only 31 favorites. Kaneki, Touka, Tsukiyama obviously are a lot popular than him. And a complete badass, he was far from a complete badass like the likes of Arima is or even a badass. I could've sworn I saw him get his ass handed to him more than he actually owning people? Also, personally I'm indifferent to him, he has likable features, but the fact he adored and respected Mado and let him torture ghouls even the likes of Ryouko made it impossible for me to ever like him. Also like others I don't think Serpent is Amon. Cause of the fact that Serpent took out some investigators. That just doesn't fit with Amon, and him being another Kaneki/Sasaki with amnesia would be just to dull writing. Let alone that it wouldn't explain why while having amnesia he is still hunting ghouls. Do you like Tsukiyama? He captures, tortures, and devours countless humans when he's part of the gourmet club, how is that any different? Tsukiyama's case is actually worse because he's preying on defenseless humans. Mado and Amon, at least for the most part, are fighting for their lives against ghouls with Kagune's. I really like Amon because he's a window into the human side of things early on in the series, kind of a second main character. When you see how ghouls butcher and devour humans on a daily basis can you blame humans for hating them? Although I agree the part with Ryouko is pretty bad, probably the first time I sympathized with ghouls in the series and that's one of the reasons TG is so powerful: both sides aren't completely right nor wrong. No Amon's not the strongest fighter, though he's far from the weakest. He held his own for a bit against Kaneki's kakuja form which is nothing to laugh at. I dunno, I realize it's just my opinion but Amon's definitely my second favorite behind Kaneki because both come to the conclusion "this world is wrong" even though they come from completely opposite places, and I think by the end of :re they will be working together to fix it. And if he's a hybrid now like I think he is (though I agree now he's probably not Serpent), all the more interesting. |
Acernos said: gabyta07 said: Yes that's what I thought, I just found his supposition so interesting and we might say original, that it baffled me. He also said he believed that since Eto has 6 kokahous, she might have different kagunes stored, meaning that ukaku, bikaku, rinkaku something like that. I think that's how he thought Kaneki might have a bikaku during centiped mode since he thinks that Kaneki has more than one Kokahou. Edit: @CNTRI715 Well my supposition was that a kakuja is another state, all this discussion came out, bc at first Kaneki had 3 tentacles and at the end he had 8. I believed since his kakuja is 50% completed, he is able to use his rinkaku as he always does in ghoul state but he can also use abilities of a kakuja. I compared to a teenager, not an adult, not a child, and that is why his voice go from low to deep, the same I think happens to Kaneki, his rinkaku is trying to envelope him to take kakuja form, but since its 50& completed, he can also used it as a normal rinkaku. Also the reason we see 3 to 8 tentacles, I believe its bc Kaneki has major control on the rinkaku than before and he is able to divide it more. Like cutting a celery :9 Although I could be wrong and thinking too much about it :D according to Shinohara, Kaneki actually have more than one kakuhou, this must be due to cannibalism, but just because a ghoul develops more than one kakuhou, does not make it a different kind. Exactly. And while on that topic, the only ghoul that is confirmed to have different types of kagunes is Hinami. |
| I don't know why people keep hating on Mutsuki. In the last scene he wears something similar to a binder. Transgenders (FTM) wear those to hide their boobs because of gender dysphoria. It's possible that he's a transgender character, that's why Sasaki uses he pronoun. Maybe Mutsuki is just pretending to be a boy or it's something deeper. We have to wait, but I'd love him to turn out to be trans. |
LikeAnime24 said: stern-regen said: I don't know why people keep hating on Mutsuki. In the last scene he wears something similar to a binder. Transgenders (FTM) wear those to hide their boobs because of gender dysphoria. It's possible that he's a transgender character, that's why Sasaki uses he pronoun. Maybe Mutsuki is just pretending to be a boy or it's something deeper. We have to wait, but I'd love him to turn out to be trans. First of all- how do u know all that things about trans? Another thing, why do you want him to turn out trans? Weird guy^^ we're reading a manga about people-esque creatures who eat not only humans but also one another. A manga with a high amount of subliminal psychoanalytical themes and hidden messages with the use of numbers that correspond to tarot cards in an effort to uncover the intentions of a well read story teller whose strategies are to leave his reader with little enough clues for us to theorize his next step. the reasons as to why stern is into transgender practices and his or her infatuation with transgender culture is neither weird (compared to our common and intense interest in this manga) nor anyones business. lol |
| "Events that happen in this world are a continuous series of trifling things. And within those myriad pieces of puzzles, there is a fragment that leads to the truth." -Kishou Arima |
LikeAnime24 said: stern-regen said: I don't know why people keep hating on Mutsuki. In the last scene he wears something similar to a binder. Transgenders (FTM) wear those to hide their boobs because of gender dysphoria. It's possible that he's a transgender character, that's why Sasaki uses he pronoun. Maybe Mutsuki is just pretending to be a boy or it's something deeper. We have to wait, but I'd love him to turn out to be trans. First of all- how do u know all that things about trans? Another thing, why do you want him to turn out trans? Weird guy^^ I have trans friends and I had to learn all those things, more or less. I don't think it's weird at all, but people tend to believe what they want. I want him to turn out to be trans bacause mangas lack diversity when it comes to characters, and I like diversity. |
CNTRI715 said: mugiwara84 said: Try again, he came in 11th in the character popularity poll. Even here on mal he has only 31 favorites. Kaneki, Touka, Tsukiyama obviously are a lot popular than him. And a complete badass, he was far from a complete badass like the likes of Arima is or even a badass. I could've sworn I saw him get his ass handed to him more than he actually owning people? Also, personally I'm indifferent to him, he has likable features, but the fact he adored and respected Mado and let him torture ghouls even the likes of Ryouko made it impossible for me to ever like him. Also like others I don't think Serpent is Amon. Cause of the fact that Serpent took out some investigators. That just doesn't fit with Amon, and him being another Kaneki/Sasaki with amnesia would be just to dull writing. Let alone that it wouldn't explain why while having amnesia he is still hunting ghouls. Do you like Tsukiyama? He captures, tortures, and devours countless humans when he's part of the gourmet club, how is that any different? Tsukiyama's case is actually worse because he's preying on defenseless humans. Mado and Amon, at least for the most part, are fighting for their lives against ghouls with Kagune's. I really like Amon because he's a window into the human side of things early on in the series, kind of a second main character. When you see how ghouls butcher and devour humans on a daily basis can you blame humans for hating them? Although I agree the part with Ryouko is pretty bad, probably the first time I sympathized with ghouls in the series and that's one of the reasons TG is so powerful: both sides aren't completely right nor wrong. No Amon's not the strongest fighter, though he's far from the weakest. He held his own for a bit against Kaneki's kakuja form which is nothing to laugh at. I dunno, I realize it's just my opinion but Amon's definitely my second favorite behind Kaneki because both come to the conclusion "this world is wrong" even though they come from completely opposite places, and I think by the end of :re they will be working together to fix it. And if he's a hybrid now like I think he is (though I agree now he's probably not Serpent), all the more interesting. Sorry for the late response, but I don't think this comes down to personal preference, just a mere number game. And I don't think it can be contested that Tsukiyama came in 3rd in the official manga poll vs Amon's 11th, or that Tsukiyama has 366 favorites on here vs Amon's 34. Those numbers just speak against chaos_reaper bold's claim that he's the overall second favorite character. Now if you'd like to know who I'd prefer, let me just start that neither is amongst my favorites, but I wouldn't lie that I do actually appreciate Tsukiyama over Amon. He was just so damn entertaining and interesting to follow. But by no means do I like him, the guy is as deplorable as they come, only second to Yakumo and the recently Torso. |
| Ohh so she's a girl after all. Impressive how they get all these hints on the investigation. |
| Yes! I said so. Mutsuki looked like a girl from the start. I was just sitting there wondering why people couldn't see that and now is confirmed. She was obviously a girl and i have no idea why the translators were writing "he" when they were referring to her. They are fucking blind if it looked like a boy to them. Acernos said: theory, I believe Mutsuki suffered rape or other violation, and because of this she disguises herself as a man and realized every intention from Torso through of the look. She doesn't disguise herself as anything. Her clothes were very neutral. It wasn't impossible for a girl to dress like that. People just got carried away because the translator were referring to her as a "he" because they seem to be fucking blind. |
Monad said: Yes! I said so. Mutsuki looked like a girl from the start. I was just sitting there wondering why people couldn't see that and now is confirmed. She was obviously a girl and i have no idea why the translators were writing "he" when they were referring to her. They are fucking blind if it looked like a boy to them. Acernos said: theory, I believe Mutsuki suffered rape or other violation, and because of this she disguises herself as a man and realized every intention from Torso through of the look. She doesn't disguise herself as anything. Her clothes were very neutral. It wasn't impossible for a girl to dress like that. People just got carried away because the translator were referring to her as a "he" because they seem to be fucking blind. The translator weren't doing that on purpose. There's a big reason Mutsuki is referring herself as a male. |
Monad said: Yes! I said so. Mutsuki looked like a girl from the start. I was just sitting there wondering why people couldn't see that and now is confirmed. She was obviously a girl and i have no idea why the translators were writing "he" when they were referring to her. They are fucking blind if it looked like a boy to them. Acernos said: theory, I believe Mutsuki suffered rape or other violation, and because of this she disguises herself as a man and realized every intention from Torso through of the look. She doesn't disguise herself as anything. Her clothes were very neutral. It wasn't impossible for a girl to dress like that. People just got carried away because the translator were referring to her as a "he" because they seem to be fucking blind. Maybe you should just keep reading instead of making assumptions about the story. |
| Wow, Hinami is a grown woman now. Sweet. |
 |
| Really interesting investigating.. ghoul taxi driver lool |
| Mutsuki's a girl? 4/5 |
 |
| The investigation becomes more interesting. Hoo boy, those two will definitely want to stay out of the way when Haise goes full power. |
| So he was found by a girl who's about to be killed :X |
 |
| Interesting chapter, hope Mutsuki is okay |
 |
| Ok, thanks "torso", now I can confirm she's indeed a girl xD I need that information. |
| Mitsuki in danger now, that taxi driver might be Torso. |
| Mutsuki didn't think when she got in that cab. |
 |
| Was that girl Hinami? I seriously think it is her(comparing her to the frame of her's on the first colour page od Chapter 1) Mutsuki got the Torso, rather the Torso got him, rather the Torso got her. That was like a tight cloth to make the chest look flat right? But why would she hide change her gender? |
| --AbiSa-- |
| I was really confused if mutsuki was a boy...however she is a girl though I wonder why she wear a strap for flat chest. 5/5 |
 |
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