General Fate Series Question Thread

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Orochiro said:
I guess there will be no explanation about the spells that the mages are using during battles so what would be the best place to read more about them?

I'm mainly interested in the bird familiars (that can change shape)/jewel spells/red and black orbs (the ones that Rin used against Illya and those skeletons in the latest ep)/the enhancement that Rin used on herself to escape from Lancer.

There is that info thread with servant stats and abilities so I thought that these are also probably explained in detail somewhere.

To answer; (No real spoilers, but you might be different in what you consider a spoiler)

Bird Familiars: Transmutation, a type of Alchemy and an Einzbern Specialty, IIRC. Passing Prana through wires (or hair, in Illya's case) to shape the threads in accordance with her mental images.

Jewel Spells: Jewel Magecraft is a type of thaumaturgy involving transferring magical energy into jewels to use as limited use Mystic Codes. The use of Jewels is specifically a thing of the Tohsaka's. They act as "prisons that stop flow", easily storing the thoughts and prana of the owners. Among the jewels of the world, there are those that have spent years under the ground having contact with the spirits of nature and have been stained with their power, allowing them to act as a simplified type of Magic Crest when filled with energy. The downside of the storage medium is that they break upon the release of the energy, so they must be replaced with each use.

Once prana is embedded into a jewel, it will be tinted by the mystical properties of the stone, and the magus can then use that power whenever and in whatever way he finds necessary. A specific example would be the topaz, which has properties that makes it optimal for anti-spirits tasks.

Within a few limits, is possible to modify the properties of a jewel so it can be used for different purposes, but as a consequence its efficiency will not be optimal.

By releasing all the energy of the jewel at once, it will produce the effect that is most tuned for at maximum power, but at the expenses of burning out the jewel to ashes. Depending of the amount of prana stored inside the jewel, it is possible to cast a High Thaumaturgy-level spell instantly. The same rules apply if the magus decides to use the jewel as a single use explosive. It is possible to preserve the jewel by simply removing the power stored from inside of it and use that to strengthen a spell cast by normal means, but overall effect will be decreased.

Red and Black Orbs: The Gandr Curse. It's a simple sickness curse originating from Scandinavia, which decreases the physical health of the target. Because the curse properly said is released from the caster’s index finger and the target must be within the field of vision to be aimed at, it is dubbed Gandr Shot. A Gandr with so much prana concentrated into it that becomes capable of physical interference is called Finn Shot. Rin Tohsaka’s Finn Shot has roughly the destructive power of a pistol bullet and while a single hit is not enough to kill someone, is still capable of knocking out a normal person. The Edelfelt are among the best Gandr-users in the world.

Leg Enhancement: I'm not 100% Sure on what it was, but it was probably Reinforcement.
Reinforcement is the most simple Magecraft with the purpose of pushing a basis to the utmost. It is the foundation of all Magecraft that enhance the existence of the target by pouring prana, but as no clear expression of how much it can be enhanced is defined, almighty reinforcements are rare. It is the same as adding something to an object that is already complete, in case of failure the target will receive it as a poison. Success requires a good grasp of the inner structure to fill openings with Prana. Reinforcing the purpose of existence would be increasing the sharpness of a knife, the nourishment of food, or in the case of a living creature, physical strength and durability. It is impossible to reinforce something vague. As living things will resist invasion of your prana, reinforcing someone else is the hardest. By putting this in application, Shirou Emiya is able to create a bow out of the branch of a tree, repair a soccer ball, or change the shape of an object.

Not_A_Priest said:
What is the canocity status of the 2006 Archer vs Berserker fight and the

I thought it made sense, actually.

InsertanamehereNov 2, 2014 1:49 AM

Nov 2, 2014 1:19 AM

#205

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Reinforcement is the most simple magecraft is what you wanted to say, because it's absolutely basics. Reinforcing yourself is easy, other objects are hard and other people is very hard.

Nov 2, 2014 1:49 AM

#206

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Knew I shouldn't trust the wiki too much on it.

Nov 2, 2014 1:24 AM

#207

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Yeah, that's the problem with wikis. People mindlessly copy stuff without varifying whether it's actually true. Reinforcement is basic magecraft, what they wanted to say is that it's almost impossible to master (even bad magi like Maiya can do it). It wouldn't really make sense if Kiritsugu taught Shirou the most difficult spell first.

Nov 2, 2014 1:50 AM

#208

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CorePriest said:
Yeah, that's the problem with wikis. People mindlessly copy stuff without varifying whether it's actually true. Reinforcement is basic magecraft, what they wanted to say is that it's almost impossible to master (even bad magi like Maiya can do it). It wouldn't really make sense if Kiritsugu taught Shirou the most difficult spell first.

I'd actually just finished Rin's lecture on it in the Fate route, so reading that it's the hardest after she said it's basic confused me a little.
Judging by how some if it reads, it was probably a little half-assedly translated from Japanese.

Nov 2, 2014 1:53 AM

#209

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InsertPriestHere said:

CorePriest said:
Yeah, that's the problem with wikis. People mindlessly copy stuff without varifying whether it's actually true. Reinforcement is basic magecraft, what they wanted to say is that it's almost impossible to master (even bad magi like Maiya can do it). It wouldn't really make sense if Kiritsugu taught Shirou the most difficult spell first.

I'd actually just finished Rin's lecture on it in the Fate route, so reading that it's the hardest after she said it's basic confused me a little.
Judging by how some if it reads, it was probably a little half-assedly translated from Japanese.

She basically said what I said. Easy to learn, hard to master. (And humans are one of the most flawed existences in Nasuverse, so reinforcing yourself is super easy and effective.)

Nov 2, 2014 3:26 AM

#210

SNSConnection

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kronos7 said:
1. Did Archer actually killed Berserker in episode 3 with Caladbolg or Berserker protected himself?
2. Do you guys think that Caladbolg is powerful enough to kill Lancelot?

1. Like already said, no. He turned around and didn't let it hit him directly.
2. Yeah probably, only IF he will let himself get direclty hit by it.

SNSConnectionNov 2, 2014 3:52 AM

Nov 2, 2014 3:41 AM

#211

kronos7

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I'm asking about Lancelot, because he has A-rank defense and Arodnight increases it by one rank. Shouldn't he be almost indestructible with that?

Nov 2, 2014 3:43 AM

#212

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I have 2 questions:

1. How could Shirou summon Saber without any rituals just like other masters?(episode 1)

2. And how could Shirou use his Command Seal without any spell?(episode 1)

I like anime.

Nov 2, 2014 3:46 AM

#213

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kronos7 said:
I'm asking about FZ-Berserker, because he has A-rank defense and his NP increases it by one rank. Shouldn't he be almost indestructible with that?

If Archer snipes him with either Caladbolg or Hrunting, and FZ-Berserker doesn't have any protection against projectiles, nor does he possess instincts, he's dead. Don't know how to weigh in his divine protection though.

Pat_To_Do-List said:
I have 2 questions:

1. How could Shirou summon Saber without any rituals just like other masters?(episode 1)

2. And how could Shirou use his Command Seal without any spell?(episode 1)

1. Forcefully summoned. He was chosen as a Master a while ago, but didn't summon his Servant, so the Grail did because seven Servants are needed to start the Grail War. People who have seen FZ have seen that before.

2. Not sure what you're talking about. He obviously had his spells already. Command Spells can be activated by any Master through sheer will and thought.

CapsuleCoreNov 2, 2014 3:50 AM

Nov 2, 2014 3:56 AM

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CorePriest said:
1. Forcefully summoned. He was chosen as a Master a while ago, but didn't summon his Servant, so the Grail did because seven Servants are needed to start the Grail War. People who have seen FZ have seen that before.

2. Not sure what you're talking about. He obviously had his spells already. Command Spells can be activated by any Master through sheer will and thought.

1. I have watched F/Z, but I did not notice any forceful summons.

2. Oh, okay. I thought Command Spells could only be activated by a chant just like in F/Z.

I like anime.

Nov 2, 2014 3:56 AM

#215

SNSConnection

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kronos7 said:
I'm asking about Lancelot, because he has A-rank defense and Arodnight increases it by one rank. Shouldn't he be almost indestructible with that?

Lacelot's durability is very high indeed(most likely the highest amongst the servants). But he isn't indestructible. Although I'm not too sure about killing, considering he has survived direct NPs from Gil and Rider's Gordius Wheel, but caladblog would surely hurt him if hit directly.

Nov 2, 2014 4:05 AM

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Pat_To_Do-List said:

CorePriest said:
1. Forcefully summoned. He was chosen as a Master a while ago, but didn't summon his Servant, so the Grail did because seven Servants are needed to start the Grail War. People who have seen FZ have seen that before.

2. Not sure what you're talking about. He obviously had his spells already. Command Spells can be activated by any Master through sheer will and thought.

1. I have watched F/Z, but I did not notice any forceful summons.

2. Oh, okay. I thought Command Spells could only be activated by a chant just like in F/Z.

They don't use any spell in F/Z either, though.

Nov 2, 2014 4:07 AM

#217

emiya_lucis

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Caladbolg will destroy lancelot. Defense alone won't save you from something like a A rank BP unless its EX defense. FSN Berserker is tanking every shit because of God Hand, Lancelot got no NP shield, ability, etc. to protect himself from that kind of attack.

Nov 2, 2014 4:08 AM

#218

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InsertPriestHere said:
They don't use any spell in F/Z either, though.

When?

I like anime.

Nov 2, 2014 4:09 AM

#219

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Pat_To_Do-List said:

CorePriest said:
1. Forcefully summoned. He was chosen as a Master a while ago, but didn't summon his Servant, so the Grail did because seven Servants are needed to start the Grail War. People who have seen FZ have seen that before.

2. Not sure what you're talking about. He obviously had his spells already. Command Spells can be activated by any Master through sheer will and thought.

1. I have watched F/Z, but I did not notice any forceful summons.

2. Oh, okay. I thought Command Spells could only be activated by a chant just like in F/Z.

1. Caster. Uryuu didn't do a proper summoning, he just was chosen as a Master.

2. You give an order and the Command Spell activates if you're willing it. You don't have to say "I'm using my Command Spell to order you to blablabla". You can if you want to, but it's not necessary.

CapsuleCoreNov 2, 2014 4:14 AM

Nov 2, 2014 4:09 AM

#220

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Pat_To_Do-List said:

InsertPriestHere said:
They don't use any spell in F/Z either, though.

When?

When they use the command seals.
Like when

Nov 2, 2014 4:10 AM

#221

SolviteWoTaberu

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can u get artificial foreskin?

Nov 2, 2014 4:12 AM

#222

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SolvitePriest said:
can u get artificial foreskin?

Ask Merlin and Saber.

Nov 2, 2014 4:12 AM

#223

WrongPriest

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SolvitePriest said:
can u get artificial foreskin?

My man Merlin could prolly hook you up. How many inches?

Nov 2, 2014 4:28 AM

#224

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CorePriest said:
1. Caster. Uryuu didn't do a proper summoning, he just was chosen as a Master.

2. You give an order and the Command Spell activates if you're willing it. You don't have to say "I'm using my Command Spell to order you to blablabla". You can if you want to, but it's not necessary.

1. He did not do a proper summoning, but at least he did try to summon Caster. As far as I know Shirou did not even try to summon Saber, right?

2. I did not know that. How did you know?

InsertPriestHere said:
When they use the command seals.
Like when

He did the chant when he summoned Saber there. Just watch it again, it's on episode 20.

I like anime.

Nov 2, 2014 4:32 AM

#225

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Oh you mean the "By my command spell" bit?

Nov 2, 2014 4:36 AM

#226

ElPysCongroo

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Pat_To_Do-List said:

1. He did not do a proper summoning, but at least he did try to summon Caster. As far as I know Shirou did not even try to summon Saber, right?

Uryuu was just trying to summon a demon, he had no knowledge of servant classes or heroic spirits.

As for why Shriou summoned Saber

Nov 2, 2014 4:38 AM

#227

WrongPriest

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Pat_To_Do-List said:

CorePriest said:
1. Caster. Uryuu didn't do a proper summoning, he just was chosen as a Master.

2. You give an order and the Command Spell activates if you're willing it. You don't have to say "I'm using my Command Spell to order you to blablabla". You can if you want to, but it's not necessary.

1. He did not do a proper summoning, but at least he did try to summon Caster. As far as I know Shirou did not even try to summon Saber, right?

2. I did not know that. How did you know?

1.they'll probably (definitely) go over Shirou's summoning later in the series. Because it has more problems than just that.

2.This is from the VN, There's no reason to say they won't lampshade this somewhere in here.

Nov 2, 2014 4:38 AM

#228

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Pat_To_Do-List said:

CorePriest said:
1. Caster. Uryuu didn't do a proper summoning, he just was chosen as a Master.

2. You give an order and the Command Spell activates if you're willing it. You don't have to say "I'm using my Command Spell to order you to blablabla". You can if you want to, but it's not necessary.

1. He did not do a proper summoning, but at least he did try to summon Caster. As far as I know Shirou did not even try to summon Saber, right?

2. I did not know that. How did you know?

InsertPriestHere said:
When they use the command seals.
Like when

He did the chant when he summoned Saber there. Just watch it again, it's on episode 20.

I'm using tags now just to be safe.

1.

2. I read the novel.

Nov 2, 2014 4:45 AM

#229

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InsertPriestHere said:
Oh you mean the "By my command spell" bit?

Exactly.

ElPysCongroo said:
Uryuu was just trying to summon a demon, he had no knowledge of servant classes or heroic spirits.

As for why Shriou summoned Saber

But at least he did the chant & did some stuff to summon a servant. Shirou on the other hand . . .

I like anime.

Nov 2, 2014 4:51 AM

#230

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A catalyst is an item that helps the Grail to summon a certain Heroic Spirit. If you want Heracles, you better get an item that is associated with him and prepare it before you summon your Servant. Waver explains it and the BD bonuses from FZ do, too.

And again, what Uryuu chanted isn't better than nothing, it's nothing. The Grail did the summoning.

Nov 2, 2014 4:54 AM

#231

ElPysCongroo

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Pat_To_Do-List said:
But at least he did the chant & did some stuff to summon a servant. Shirou on the other hand.

A catalyst is a usually some artifact that has ties to a heroic spirit/s , that help the summoner chose a specific hero they want (and will also help narrow down class, as most heroes fit in like 3 classes at max). Spoilers Ahead

Nov 2, 2014 5:00 AM

#232

WrongPriest

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ElPysCongroo said:

Pat_To_Do-List said:
But at least he did the chant & did some stuff to summon a servant. Shirou on the other hand.

A catalyst is a usually some artifact that has ties to a heroic spirit/s , that help the summoner chose a specific hero they want (and will also help narrow down class, as most heroes fit in like 3 classes at max). Spoilers Ahead

I don't know why you feel you have to put the full spoiler in there. Your allowed to make it ambiguous, the guy would probably appreciate it.

Don't mean to be coon but it just irks me for some reason.

Nov 2, 2014 6:18 AM

#233

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WrongPriest said:
1.they'll probably (definitely) go over Shirou's summoning later in the series. Because it has more problems than just that.

2.This is from the VN, There's no reason to say they won't lampshade this somewhere in here.

1. I hope you are right.

2. Again, I hope you are right.

CorePriest said:
I'm using tags now just to be safe.

1.

2. I read the novel.

1.Iri's circle? What is that?

2. I see. Too bad the anime did not tell us about that. Too bad indeed.

ElPysCongroo said:

Pat_To_Do-List said:
But at least he did the chant & did some stuff to summon a servant. Shirou on the other hand.

A catalyst is a usually some artifact that has ties to a heroic spirit/s , that help the summoner chose a specific hero they want (and will also help narrow down class, as most heroes fit in like 3 classes at max). Spoilers Ahead

I like anime.

Nov 2, 2014 6:47 AM

#234

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Pat_To_Do-List said:

CorePriest said:
I'm using tags now just to be safe.

1.

2. I read the novel.

1.Iri's circle? What is that?

2. I see. Too bad the anime did not tell us about that. Too bad indeed.

1.

2. I'm pretty sure it's also mentioned in FZ's BD specials (Einzbern Consultation Room).

Pat_To_Do-List said:

ElPysCongroo said:

A catalyst is a usually some artifact that has ties to a heroic spirit/s , that help the summoner chose a specific hero they want (and will also help narrow down class, as most heroes fit in like 3 classes at max). Spoilers Ahead

Nov 2, 2014 7:00 AM

#235

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CorePriest said:

1.

2. I'm pretty sure it's also mentioned in FZ's BD specials (Einzbern Consultation Room).

1. Oh, Irisviel. I did not know she was called Iri too. Sorry.

2. An important explanation get explained in a bonus content. What an EA move.

CorePriest said:

Oh, the sheath. I remember now, but I did not see Avalon when Saber got summoned.

I like anime.

Nov 2, 2014 7:02 AM

#236

Botato

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Pat_To_Do-List said:
Oh, the sheath. I remember now, but I did not see Avalon when Saber got summoned.

Watch episode 1 again please.

Nov 2, 2014 7:10 AM

#237

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BotatoPriest said:
Watch episode 1 again please.

I just did, & I saw the Avalon in some kind of DNA animation(I guess?). So the Avalon was inside Shirou's body?

I like anime.

Nov 2, 2014 7:10 AM

#238

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I don't mean to offend you, Pat, but I think you need to pay a little more attention when you're watching. >.>

Nov 2, 2014 7:11 AM

#239

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InsertPriestHere said:
I don't mean to offend you, Pat, but I think you need to pay a little more attention when you're watching. >.>

Thank you for the advice.

I like anime.

Nov 2, 2014 7:12 AM

#240

T3hSource

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Is this a death tournament? I should I write off that element completely until the last few episodes?

Nov 2, 2014 7:13 AM

#241

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Pat_To_Do-List said:

BotatoPriest said:
Watch episode 1 again please.

I just did, & I saw the Avalon in some kind of DNA animation(I guess?). So the Avalon was inside Shirou's body?

T3hSource said:
Is this a death tournament? I should I write off that element completely until the last few episodes?

Only basically.
The masters don't have to die.
And in any case, F/SN's Grail War isn't a standard one, with not too much focus on that aspect, except kind of in the Fate route, F/Z has something more of "death tournament" of sorts.

Nov 2, 2014 7:16 AM

#242

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Pat_To_Do-List said:

BotatoPriest said:
Watch episode 1 again please.

I just did, & I saw the Avalon in some kind of DNA animation(I guess?). So the Avalon was inside Shirou's body?

That's a Fate spoiler, be careful, if you want to read that.

The blue/green lines that you see are magic circuits. They are also seen when Shirou uses reinforcement, like when he reinforced that poster against Lancer in episode 1.

T3hSource said:
Is this a death tournament? I should I write off that element completely until the last few episodes?

Shirou doesn't want to kill people. People are still gonna die and not all of them in the last few episodes.

Nov 2, 2014 7:16 AM

#243

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InsertPriestHere said:

You mean he put it in the warehouse? I do not remember that kind of scene. Are you sure?

I like anime.

Nov 2, 2014 7:18 AM

#244

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Pat_To_Do-List said:

InsertPriestHere said:

You mean he put it in the warehouse? I do not remember that kind of scene. Are you sure?

Nov 2, 2014 7:20 AM

#245

Botato

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Pat_To_Do-List said:

InsertPriestHere said:

You mean he put it in the warehouse? I do not remember that kind of scene. Are you sure?

It wasn't shown in F/Z.

It is revealed on day 13 of Fate route in the VN iirc.

Nov 2, 2014 7:21 AM

#246

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CorePriest said:
That's a Fate spoiler, be careful, if you want to read that.

BotatoPriest said:
It is revealed on day 13 of Fate route in the VN iirc.

Another important explanation did not make it into the anime adaptation. That's not good.

I like anime.

Nov 2, 2014 7:24 AM

#247

ElPysCongroo

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Avalon is OP

Nov 2, 2014 7:24 AM

#248