tsuyurii said: Zadion said: What about Tokiomi?Plus Rin is like a deuteragonist in FSN and considering she's the bitchiest, most one dimensional character in Fate lore He wasn't either. The usage of ''one dimensional'' here is exaggerated. A one dimensional character is something like Assassins. |
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| Assassin was a real shame, they would have taken the spot light though. |
 Anime is good, fucking deal with it. |
robis798 said: So it seems there are people who dislike Shirou even after reading the VN. Everything is right with the world. He's joking. i can smell the sarcasm in his post |
VerchanJan 15, 2015 1:23 PM
| And I mean that in the most sexually painful way possible. |
WrongPriest said: fst said: Give me a minute Don't you dare. So, did I make it happen yet? |
| You finished UBW 2014? I find that hard to believe. Didn't you just say there's a second cour? "Part of Fate/zero and it's continuum" Yeah it would probably be better off if you viewed them as separate shows. Written by different authors/different goals in storytelling. There's more to Shirou than meets the eye, there should be some some pretty telling scenes next cour that somethings going on with Shirou (If you havn't already noticed). and I promise they'll make convo's from 1st more interesting in hindsight. Oh and even if you don't really like UBW route, it's going to be very important for Heavens Feel. Su hang in there. |
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fst said: WrongPriest said: Don't you dare. So, did I make it happen yet? Your're gonna have to work a little harder than that bucko, your gonna need about a 96% drop in literacy to get close. Although Zadions post made me double take, I legitimately don't know whether he's having a giggle or pulled a complete 180 and everything she enjoyed out of FSN was turned to shit just by watching F/z ZeroDragon would be proud. |
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MisterDolabeno said: *snip* I see what you mean. I must say it's going to be a little tricky to pull off solely with UBW and HF route but the moral of the story is similar to Kiri's Dilemma in Zero. (well not really it's hard to think of a good analogy) However this is stretched out over 3 stories. Shirou's Hero complex plays a big part, in it as each route develops it in a different way. It's also part of the reason it's important the story is told from his perspective. I very much Disagree that Shirou's actions are found to be acceptable, if anything his Hero complex's absurdity is pretty obvious and commented on by almost all In-universe characters. But yeah, there's a lot more of that to come too. Shirou is forcing a almost childish Ideal in the most inappropriate of circumstances A Holy Grail War. The narrative understands that. It's an important plot point. I guess I can probably leave it there, I guess I'll just let you see what you think after UBW is finished (And then HF). Even if you don't necessarily like Shirou you'll definitely be able to appreciate him by the time this is over. Just in time for everything to be deconstructed by the time HF comes around. Sorry lol, I'm so bad at structuring comments. |
WrongPriestJan 15, 2015 8:20 PM
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| You gotta remember this comes from a VN lol, you don't just come close to dying and narrowly escape. you do die. Allot. More often than you survive your decisions get you killed, failing that, If you do survive you get pretty fucked up and/or friends get hurt. Well if you look at most of those scenes you'll see that it's his urge to save people that gets him in these messes, but it's quick thinking that gets him out. Most of the time Lancer wasn't going as easy as it looks. Lancer actually almost killed him multiple times during that fight, it was last minute blocks and a few dives that kept him alive. It's hard to see in the anime, but skip through the frames when Lancer kicks him and you can see him raise his pole at the last second. Hence why it's so bent in the next scene. Rider actually had an ulterior motive for ambushing Shirou separate from Shinji's reasons. That'll become apparent in HF. Correct, Kuzuki was caught off guard by an seemingly unarmed Shirou just like Kuzuki himself caught Saber off guard. The hit to the back of the neck disorientated her for the fight. If either fight were to happen again it would go very differently. Shirou has some sword skills (He lives in a freaking dojo) but you are correct that his combo was way out there for him. This has to do with the way Projection works: Recreating a sword not only generates it's shape, but also the swordplay of the user (Archer). Allowing him to pull off an Archer esque combo. Another thing you gotta remember is that Servants are just high class familiars, their own magical Armor is what makes them Tanky. Servants without Armor (Assassin, FSN Rider) can still be damaged/killed by the same amount of firepower it would take to kill a human. Hence a Kuzuki catching Rider off guard and killing her. Shirou can hold off Rider for a short amount of time simply because that class is actually rather shite at physical combat, and instead rely on Powerful NPs. (Remember F/z Rider focused on his Chariot, and was much weaker when it came actually fighting sword to sword) Hope that answers some stuff, most of it you can figure out by watching it but some explanations have been left out sadly. |
WrongPriestJan 15, 2015 10:14 PM
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Zadion said: I think it's pretty clear fsn was ruined by shoddy pacing and lame slice of life scenes that thought they were funny but they weren't. Plus Rin is like a deuteragonist in FSN and considering she's the bitchiest, most one dimensional character in Fate lore, being rid of her for most of Zero was pretty good. F/SN might've been better than Zero if it tossed out all of the SOL shit that made it drag out approximately 9x longer than it needed to and replaced Rin with a character who is actually admirable and interesting. How in the world is Rin one-dimensional? You watched Zero too. She lost her father in the last war. Her mother went insane. Her sister is gone. Only person left in her life is her guardian, and that's the fucking Priest. She has the insane expectation of carrying the Tohsaka magic bloodline and winning the next Holy Grail War. This explains why she is that extreme. It's obvious why she tries to be perfect and competitive, and why she carries a serious and cold air that masks some of her other personality that she shows to Archer and Shirou because she can open up to them. ------------------ MisterDolabeno said: After finishing 2014 UBW, I have to say that F/Z > F/SN.There's so many things going for F/Z that it pales in comparison to what F/SN has. Shirou isn't a great protagonist in the story, I would have appreciated the show far better if Rin was the protagonist considering there is nothing really interesting about Shirou other than he can make Archers blades. I really feel like they could have improved his character here but they didn't even bother to try. Wait for F/SN UBW to finish. The second half will be awesome, and you'll appreciate Shirou a lot more. Plus, ufotable is releasing 90 additional minutes of footage that will be sure to flesh out the first cour. Also, I think if you binge watch this first half, it will come a lot more tolerable because the slow parts build up to the action bits better rather than waiting one week per episode. The show would have been far better off if it panned out to all the other characters, especially the scene where Rider died was a great way to add some external views other than just Shirou and Rins. But it seems this show doesn't want to go that way for some reason considering F/Z already did a wonderful job of showing that a Battle Royale does not need to take a point of view from one character. F/Z strongly benefits from having an ensemble cast, so any of the slow parts for one character in Zero is avoided by flashing over to another team. Characters aside, the plot of the show is also full of problems. Why don't these Masters fight in the day? Considering there really is no real rules to this game of death other than to not piss off that guy in the Church who is monitoring the war to see who the winner is in the end. There was also a fight scene that this animation prides itself on that they never even animated; the Archer vs Asasssin fight scene. How many fight scenes in F/Z were fought during the day? The Holy Grail War is supposed to be masked in secrecy. And...I don't know if you saw, but the incidents at the school were clearly during the day... Archer vs Assassin might be expanded in extra footage. I'm just not interested in this part of the F/SN route despite it being praised as the best route in the novel, hopefully the Heavens Feel movie will be better with far more interesting events taking place. All I can say is that it's probably better to wait till entire series is over, and then give it a marathon/binge watch, and then see how you like it. |
| I'll never understand the hype surrounding this anime, just like I'll never really understand why so many people like Saber. The art & animation was nice at least >.> |
| That's like asking if i have good taste. |
FragOutFire said: Why am I a Berserk fan? All I ever experience is pain. We are in the eclipse and Miura has sacrificed us |
MisterDolabeno said: -kV- said: --- When I mean fight in the day I mean just go out in the open and do what you want. There's always this secrecy on how no average person should know they're fighting otherwise 'bad' things will happen to them. Caster broke the rules and summoned Assassin, if there are indeed rules that are enforced in this war why is Caster allowed to get away with that? And why should anyone else follow the rules? She's not allowed to, she's just too powerful to be stopped. |
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| Its just beyond overrated and it directly continues into the recent Fate Stay reboot ,but then again people are desperately looking for "the next big thing" when it comes to anime :the next Death Note,Code Geass or more recently Attack On Titan..... And while all these shows certainly have their merits and plus sides,the level of overzealous nature of their fanbase is completely intoxicating ,especially for a new viewer. |
MisterDolabeno said: -kV- said: --- When I mean fight in the day I mean just go out in the open and do what you want. There's always this secrecy on how no average person should know they're fighting otherwise 'bad' things will happen to them. Caster broke the rules and summoned Assassin, if there are indeed rules that are enforced in this war why is Caster allowed to get away with that? And why should anyone else follow the rules? What Caster did when she summond a class of her own wasn't technically against the "rules" it just has never been done before. The Holy Grail War however still has Overseer's from the church and as such has some rules. One being the Idea of keeping your activities quiet (This comes second nature to modern mages) and another being the "Safe zone" of the church. This is enforced not only by the church but also the Mage association, breaking these rules is good way to get yourself marked for death by Church Enforces or given a sealing designation by the MA. Either way is basically GG. No master wants that, and therefore they trys to keep their servant under control. As you've seen from the last two wars, it doesn't always go to plan. This time it's mainly due to the participants. Let's make one thing abundantly clear: Barely anyone was ready for this war Not only was it a measly 10 years after the previous war but of the 4 people who were preparing for it 2 are dead, and 1 is horrendously misinformed. This leads to situations like Casters, not only does she have no-one to leash her with command seals but also knows the truth of the lesser Grail. She's not planning on disappearing after this war, she pretty much fucking everything up. Or is she Dun dun dun. That's all you're getting. |
WrongPriestJan 16, 2015 12:09 AM
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| I didn't enjoy the first half of UBW in the VN but the climax makes it worth it. |
Anime is good, fucking deal with it. |
| Glad to see my warning was substantiated. |
| "Let Justice Be Done!" My Theme Fight again, fight again for justice! |
RedRoseFring said: Glad to see my warning was substantiated. That's me. The one man Priestgeddon. |
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| Fun times. F/Z and F/SN spoilers follow. Zadion said: I think it's pretty clear fsn was ruined by shoddy pacing and lame slice of life scenes that thought they were funny but they weren't. But Zero has several unnecessary things too, though. I'll grant the slice of life in F/SN was annoying at times, but at other times it's necessary to build character relations and it's not quite enough in quantity to "ruin" the game. If you say they should all be removed, Rin's completely unnecessary episodes could have been done away with, and so could scenes like Kiritsugu and Illya playing around, Waver chatting with that old couple, Iskandar and Waver up to nonsense like shirt shopping, etc. Plus Rin is like a deuteragonist in FSN and considering she's the bitchiest, most one dimensional character in Fate lore, being rid of her for most of Zero was pretty good. F/SN might've been better than Zero if it tossed out all of the SOL shit that made it drag out approximately 9x longer than it needed to and replaced Rin with a character who is actually admirable and interesting. So how is Rin one dimensional, exactly? Or for that matter, the bitchiest, considering Sophia-Ri and the like. After all, her character is delved into well in both the prologue and throughout the course of the story, and she's far from one dimensional, even if some people could find her tsuntsun moments annoying. And then consider Tokiomi, Kayneth, F/Z Assassin, aforementioned Sophia-Ri, Maiya and Ryuunosuke, who are much more "one dimensional" than she is. Or even by a stretch, F/Z Caster and Lancer. Furthermore, Shirou is a womanizing jerk off in Fate, so stubborn and clueless in UBW. "Womanizing"-He only ever has feelings for Saber and a school boy crush on Rin, so no. Kiritsugu on the other hand actually has sex with both Maiya and Iri, so I guess one could call him a womanizing jerk off. So how is he stubborn and clueless? He acknowledges the problems with his ideal and strives to solve it while pursuing it because it is what defines him and is what he feels is worth pursuing. Once again I can bring up Kiritsugu here, because he never acknowledges it until after destroying half a city and getting scorched by Grail fire. in Heaven's Feel, an idiotic hypocrite who betrays his own ideals just for the sake of some crazy bitch (this dude let Sakura get by with killing who knows how many people and refused to take responsibility for his actions). So it's idiotic to do what he did, is it? Meanwhile if he killed Sakura everyone would call him a cruel jackass. When did he refuse to take responsibility? He did his utmost to stop the Shadow and was prepared to die to put an end to it all. In any case it's all the more clearer why he has to make that decision in HF itself-he loves Sakura and wants to protect her, but doing so goes against an ideal......that is not his own. It becomes his own in UBW, but not so in HF. So it's not hypocritical. As a result of losing everything in the Grail fire, he becomes dependent on Kiritsugu's dream to keep functioning, which is replaced by his desire to see Sakura happy-he just stops when he can no longer pursue it, because it's all that he can do to keep going-Bad End 31 demonstrates. Also, passing Sakura off as a "crazy bitch" is a pretty shallow thing to say, you know. Kiritsugu, on the other hand, is very mature, intelligent, and respectful for essentially the entirety of Zero. So why is he so much more mature than Shirou? Shirou has his dream because of his lack of anything else to follow, having lost everything in the Grail Fire, because he believes it brought Kiritsugu happiness and will bring him the same, and because the guilt drives him to believe he needs to do it. Why does Kiritsugu have his dream? We know why he affirms it-because of the events of his life-but why does he have it in the first place? A leftover childhood wish? Because he tells Shirley that's what he wants and it remains the same through out the rest of his life. As for respectful, again not necessarily-his treatment of people leaves much to be desired. His battle tactics won the entire damn war, then, like a real boss, he gave up the grail that should've been his because he knew it was corrupt. He won against Kayneth and Kirei. How would his tactics allowed him to defeat, say, Iskandar or Gilgamesh at the end if the Grail didn't affect the fight? Almost anyone would have thrown away the Grail at that point-Shirou does the same, so this isn't much of a point in Zero's favour. MisterDolabeno said: There's so many things going for F/Z that it pales in comparison to what F/SN has. Shirou isn't a great protagonist in the story, I would have appreciated the show far better if Rin was the protagonist considering there is nothing really interesting about Shirou other than he can make Archers blades. I really feel like they could have improved his character here but they didn't even bother to try. The building of Shirou's character happens across all three routes, not just one half of one third of F/SN that you have finished. Though I will admit the anime hasn't done the best of jobs adapting his character. The show would have been far better off if it panned out to all the other characters, especially the scene where Rider died was a great way to add some external views other than just Shirou and Rins. But it seems this show doesn't want to go that way for some reason considering F/Z already did a wonderful job of showing that a Battle Royale does not need to take a point of view from one character. You may have been told this before, but F/SN isn't about the Grail War- it's an exploration of Shirou Emiya's character and his ideals that drive him. Characters aside, the plot of the show is also full of problems. Why don't these Masters fight in the day? Considering there really is no real rules to this game of death other than to not piss off that guy in the Church who is monitoring the war to see who the winner is in the end. There was also a fight scene that this animation prides itself on that they never even animated; the Archer vs Asasssin fight scene. It's a de facto rule that was there in Zero too, in order to keep the existence of magecraft secret from the public. You may as well fault Zero more for this because there were three fights in the day in F/SN so far and none in Zero. There wasn't much to see there in any case, other than Archer retreating soon after. I know there is a 2nd cour to this show but the whole thing is... lifeless, to say the least. There's really nothing interesting going on and some scenes are completely pointless such as Saber eating food half the time she appears or Rin doing this silly-tsundere attitude around Shirou. I agree Saber eating food endlessly on screen can be a little pointless, but hey, it's part of her character. Rin's behaviour around Shirou on the other hand, has plenty of explanations you should certainly have picked up on having already watched Zero. In the prologue, she explains she keeps people at a distance and whatnot, and generally doesn't have much contact with people-the only other male schoolmate she's spoken to is Issei, both of whom have an antagonistic attitude towards the other. Moreover, she'd of course be unsure how to express her emotions with the childhood she had-raised a magus, no real friends, father died when she was a child, mother went mad and then died, and raised and trained by a sadist who happened to kill her father, and is now the sole progeny of the Tohsaka lineage still alive and believes it is her duty to live up to her status as second owner, which is a large weight on her shoulders. I really want to give this show some merit considering it is part of F/Z and its continuum but I just can't understand why they took the most dull characters and made them the protagonists. It's not part of F/Z's continuum, they are seperate shows for most part, though properly F/Z is part of F/SN's continuum. Shirou and Rin are interesting characters-who else could be protagonist even if you didn't like them? I would have preferred it if Caster was the MC of the show if it really wanted to go that way, considering she is far more interesting since she is focusing on winning the HGW compared to half-assed effort of the other Masters. Yes, we can spend all the daytime scenes with SOL of Caster preening over Kuzuki instead. And once in a while checking her bounded field and arguing with Assassin-she rarely does anything and only has special interest in obtaining Saber for her purposes. I heard that the Visual Novel has more than one path that this story diverges from, so I really hope that the reason people like these characters is because in a different route. Another character is chosen as the protagonist and so we see them trying to win the HGW instead of Rin and Shirou. It's always Shirou. That said, the anime does not present the characters or their development the same, or well as, the VN does. MisterDolabeno said: I really want to believe that there's something far more significant to the way Shirou acts and what he does. Considering Kiritsugu had his flashback about how he came to be in the second part of the show as well. But I was interested in Kiritsugu since the beginning of the show and I can't seem to find out why people appreciate Shirou for who he is. There is, but regarding Kiritsugu, I'll repeat what I said to Zadion: He has far less of a reason for the ideals he follows-why does he want to be a hero? We are never told. We see why he comes to be the way he is, but not the reason for pursuing his ideals, which he had way before the vampire incident. Is it because he has a hero-complex? I'll admit his view is rather 'different' to to the normal hero considering he acts with selfless disregard for his own life, that much I noticed. Plus he has recurring traumas that cause mental breakdowns for him in midpoints of the show. But it doesn't really seem like he's 'suffering' from any of that and his way of living is portrayed as 'acceptable' considering nothing really serious happened to him until the last episode. Where he had Saber taken away because he was scared that Taiga would die and Saber would be unable to get Caster in time to release the strings. Not only because he has a hero-complex, but because of the other aspects of his character I addressed elsewhere in his post. In any case he certainly had a lot of bad happening to him-He loses his family, his whole life and all his memories in the Grail fire, and his body is even practically dead when Kiritsugu finds him. I guess my main problem is I still don't get the themes of the show as of yet, what is it trying to tell me or to put it in a simplistic-book-style question 'what is the moral of this story?' It's up to your personal interpretation. Certainly, Fate does not present a true answer to the exploration of Shirou's ideals, but more of a question, but UBW and HF follow two alternate interpretations. Is it more important to protect those close to you at the cost of your ideals, which are far too optimistic and dangerous to your own self, but at great danger to others, or should you pursue an impossible dream acknowledging it as such, but chasing it all the same because it is something beautiful and worth the time, to continue in a life long quest to save those who you can? MisterDolabeno said: I guess I should restructure my statement to 'He doesn't really suffer for his mistakes for his hero-complex in the war.' Mmm.....Route issues, Shirou suffers quite a bit for it in Fate and HF, and suffice to say you will see that he does suffer for it eventually. 1. Shirou Vs Lancer - I understand that Lancer is just 'playing' with Shirou and he wasn't taking him seriously but Lancer could have killed Shirou at any moment during their fight. Shirou actually fights him well enough for a human, but yes, Lancer does not take him that seriously-why should he, when Shirou's just a human? 2. Shirou bleeding because of the blast from Archers arrow(?) - It's not really listed out as to why Shirou started to cough up blood, but guessing from the metal shrapnel behind his back in the next episode after that fight. I assume its because of the nuclear explosion from Archers arrow. I'm guessing this is because Shirou has Avalon inside of him and F/Z listed that as having 'regeneration' properties so his wounds are healing in instants rather than days. But I might be wrong here. You're right. 3. Shirou Vs Rider - Now this is rather interesting. Shirou is able to hold off a Servant; granted she is probably the weakest of them all. As she is the first one to die in the story, but I always thought that Servants were 'larger than men' so to say in that they had capabilities beyond that of a mere human, especially a guy still going to highschool with little to no understanding of the HGW. Is it because her Master was weak? We figured out she was Rider but she fought more like an Assassin. Ah, this is an interesting one. Rider has her reasons for doing what she did-and she is in fact, still several times stronger than a regular human. HF spoilers 4. Shirou Vs Kuzuki - I'm having problems understanding not how Shirou was able to do those insane moves that he never did before in the show but how was he able to hold out and push back Kuzuki when Saber wasn't even capable of landing a blow on him. Saber was taken by surprise yes, but was Kuzuki taken by surprise by Shirous moves or is Shirous 'Archer Blade Summoning' thing more powerful than Saber when fighting Kuzuki? In this case, Ufotable went derp and made Shirou a little too strong for his first projection-in the VN, Kuzuki's fists shatter Shirou's projections within moments, but the momentary distraction is all that is needed for Saber to get back up. Saber was also at a disadvantage because of the blow to the back of her neck disorienting her severely. As for Shirou's fighting skills, it is an aspect of projection-or rather of tracing-when he traces a weapon, he reads it's history and details, including usage by prior owners, so it was in fact the blades guiding Shirou with the skills of Archer than Shirou using the blades himself. I'm pretty okay with the ending of episode 12 since Shirou didn't get out of that situation with everything about him intact, but the way he just brushes off his mistakes like there nothing (Fighting Servants/Fighting Masters stronger than him) in most of the other episodes is kind of silly. Especially considering his ideals are supposed to be viewed as inappropriate for this war. He only fights one master stronger than him, which he was forced to do, and in the case of the servant, Rider, it's justified-he doesn't know Lancer was going easy, so from his POV servant fighting is not completely impossible, and in any case had they waited there, Rider would have been free to snipe at them from a distance. MisterDolabeno said: When I mean fight in the day I mean just go out in the open and do what you want. There's always this secrecy on how no average person should know they're fighting otherwise 'bad' things will happen to them. If it gets too out of hand, the Mage's Association and possibly the Church will notice and intervene, dispatching of the masters, and possibly the whole town of Fuyuki and dismantling the Grail War. Caster broke the rules and summoned Assassin, if there are indeed rules that are enforced in this war why is Caster allowed to get away with that? And why should anyone else follow the rules? It's a far less important rule than to avoid letting knowledge get out that she breaks, and not one which the others will take interest in. Kirei may have arranged something like Risei did, though, extra command seals to whoever takes out Caster, but he only finds out after running into Caster herself. Inb4 tl;dr |
InsertanamehereJan 16, 2015 5:11 AM
| -_- steal my thunder Insert why don't ya. That was a pretty serious post, like mine only better in every way XD |
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WrongPriest said: -_- steal my thunder Insert why don't ya. That was a pretty serious post, like mine only better in every way XD But nah, if I take out the quotes they're roughly the same size or so, I think. |
InsertanamehereJan 16, 2015 4:14 AM
| It's great when other people say my opinions. |
Anime is good, fucking deal with it. |
| I literally have to scroll down and then sideways just to read it, it doesn't even fit on my phone screen. |
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Insertanamehere said: You may have been told this before, but F/SN isn't about the Grail War- it's an exploration of Shirou Emiya's character and his ideals that drive him. This can't be said enough times. Grail war is just a background. You could replace it with random tornado alert or whatever. FSN IS Shirou's story, told through his eyes and exploring him and his problems/psychology. Zero is an expansion content that speciffically connects various plotpoints and plot twists from FSN together into a backstory. Yes, we can spend all the daytime scenes with SOL of Caster preening over Kuzuki instead. And once in a while checking her bounded field and arguing with Assassin-she rarely does anything and only has special interest in obtaining Saber for her purposes. http://38.media.tumblr.com/c90f58aa610798e29580755ad00c9ff5/tumblr_nhix9iYsbj1rk6bsxo2_500.gif http://38.media.tumblr.com/cd2a9669e3a264b2a34896d78d0efdf9/tumblr_nhix9iYsbj1rk6bsxo4_500.gif http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lu0hguHcZT1qflc3ro1_400.gif I would watch that. Shirou actually fights him well enough for a human, but yes, Lancer does not take him that seriously-why should he, when Shirou's just a human? More like it is similar to Saber VS Kuizuki - the servant is not taking the human seriously and the human manages to survive by surpassing those expectations. Every single thing Shirou did in that confrontation - starting with weapon choice(which is perfect to counter a long spear in closed room) ending with window jump and pre-planned dodges(the anime makes it poor to see, but you can actually see Shirou dodging Lancer's kick after he umps out the window, because he expected it) was to prolong his survival and to reach the shed In this case, Ufotable went derp and made Shirou a little too strong for his first projection-in the VN, Kuzuki's fists shatter Shirou's projections within moments, but the momentary distraction is all that is needed for Saber to get back up. Saber was also at a disadvantage because of the blow to the back of her neck disorienting her severely. As for Shirou's fighting skills, it is an aspect of projection-or rather of tracing-when he traces a weapon, he reads it's history and details, including usage by prior owners, so it was in fact the blades guiding Shirou with the skills of Archer than Shirou using the blades himself. Actually no I just checked the RN version and the blades shatter on their own AFTER repelling Kuizuki's attack. it has more to do with Kuizuki's fighting style. Also not skills of Archer - skills of original wielders of those blades. He only fights one master stronger than him, which he was forced to do, and in the case of the servant, Rider, it's justified-he doesn't know Lancer was going easy, so from his POV servant fighting is not completely impossible, and in any case had they waited there, Rider would have been free to snipe at them from a distance. I am pretty sure he knows Lancer was easy. What he is comparing to is Saber and Berserker. He KNOWS it is too easy hence why he knows it might be a trap especially with her asking whether he will use his command spell. WrongPriest said: MisterDolabeno said: When I mean fight in the day I mean just go out in the open and do what you want. There's always this secrecy on how no average person should know they're fighting otherwise 'bad' things will happen to them. Caster broke the rules and summoned Assassin, if there are indeed rules that are enforced in this war why is Caster allowed to get away with that? And why should anyone else follow the rules? What Caster did when she summond a class of her own wasn't technically against the "rules" it just has never been done before. The Holy Grail War however still has Overseer's from the church and as such has some rules. One being the Idea of keeping your activities quiet (This comes second nature to modern mages) and another being the "Safe zone" of the church. This is enforced not only by the church but also the Mage association, breaking these rules is good way to get yourself marked for death by Church Enforces or given a sealing designation by the MA. Either way is basically GG. No master wants that, and therefore they trys to keep their servant under control. As you've seen from the last two wars, it doesn't always go to plan. This time it's mainly due to the participants. Let's make one thing abundantly clear: Barely anyone was ready for this war Not only was it a measly 10 years after the previous war but of the 4 people who were preparing for it 2 are dead, and 1 is horrendously misinformed. This leads to situations like Casters, not only does she have no-one to leash her with command seals but also knows the truth of the lesser Grail. She's not planning on disappearing after this war, she pretty much fucking everything up. Or is she Dun dun dun. That's all you're getting. It is also NOT limited to masters. Any magus has to follow the rules of not revealing oneself or ends up getting hunted and stuffed into test tubes in pieces. And if you have honor of fucking up at maor scale, Magi Association's leader(who is generally one of THE strongest characters in nasuverse) himself most likely would come pay a visit. And that dude can find you anywhere. Breaking Magi Association's rules is generally not something you'd want to do. Master or no master. Same with Church, because Church is the organization that rivals Magi Association in both power and size(imagine Russia and USA). TLDR: breaking the rules ends up having pretty much entire supernatural world breaking down your neck so you DO NOT want that. No magus does. So yes, being in public places during daytime is perfectly safe and reasonable. It is actually logical and justified because you do not break your daily cycle thus you do not out yourself as a master. |
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| I don't know where I said it was limited to masters (or implied it even lightly) but yeah pretty much, getting a Sealing designation would not be fun. I dunno if Zeldozza himself would go after you, but you might have this chick on your tail. http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa288/reversethieves/show%20images/Type%20Moon/Fate%20Hollow/Hollow05.jpg Some people can outrun enforcers for a bit, but I expect it all comes to head eventually. |
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CookingPriest said: Yes, we can spend all the daytime scenes with SOL of Caster preening over Kuzuki instead. And once in a while checking her bounded field and arguing with Assassin-she rarely does anything and only has special interest in obtaining Saber for her purposes. http://38.media.tumblr.com/c90f58aa610798e29580755ad00c9ff5/tumblr_nhix9iYsbj1rk6bsxo2_500.gif http://38.media.tumblr.com/cd2a9669e3a264b2a34896d78d0efdf9/tumblr_nhix9iYsbj1rk6bsxo4_500.gif http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lu0hguHcZT1qflc3ro1_400.gif I would watch that. [/quote] So would I, but that's not what he wants to see. More like it is similar to Saber VS Kuizuki - the servant is not taking the human seriously and the human manages to survive by surpassing those expectations. Eh? But Lancer doesn't take Shirou completely seriously, and Saber doesn't at first. [quote Actually no I just checked the RN version and the blades shatter on their own AFTER repelling Kuizuki's attack. [/quote] Well, nevertheless they do shatter, which didn't happen in the anime for a while. Also not skills of Archer - skills of original wielders of those blades. My bad, my brain has registered them as "Archer's Swords" CookingPriest said: And if you have honor of fucking up at maor scale, Magi Association's leader(who is generally one of THE strongest characters in nasuverse) himself most likely would come pay a visit. And that dude can find you anywhere. Is Zelretch the leader? Because I've never seen him referred to as Director, only Wizard Marshal. |
InsertanamehereJan 16, 2015 7:58 AM
WrongPriest said: I don't know where I said it was limited to masters (or implied it even lightly) but yeah pretty much, getting a Sealing designation would not be fun. I dunno if Zeldozza himself would go after you, but you might have this chick on your tail. http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa288/reversethieves/show%20images/Type%20Moon/Fate%20Hollow/Hollow05.jpg Some people can outrun enforcers for a bit, but I expect it all comes to head eventually. Zel gets interested when you cross certain lines. And once that happens, there's nowhere you can run xD Then again if you keep crossing lines even if he ignores you, Breaking rules HURTS. You can outrun enforcers for a while, but not the one you linked. xD Insertanamehere said: CookingPriest said: Yes, we can spend all the daytime scenes with SOL of Caster preening over Kuzuki instead. And once in a while checking her bounded field and arguing with Assassin-she rarely does anything and only has special interest in obtaining Saber for her purposes. http://38.media.tumblr.com/c90f58aa610798e29580755ad00c9ff5/tumblr_nhix9iYsbj1rk6bsxo2_500.gif http://38.media.tumblr.com/cd2a9669e3a264b2a34896d78d0efdf9/tumblr_nhix9iYsbj1rk6bsxo4_500.gif http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lu0hguHcZT1qflc3ro1_400.gif I would watch that. So would I, but that's not what he wants to see.[/quote] Well that's his problem. That's what he would get anyway. More like it is similar to Saber VS Kuizuki - the servant is not taking the human seriously and the human manages to survive by surpassing those expectations. Eh? But Lancer doesn't take Shirou completely seriously, and Saber doesn't at first. So both of them underestimate their opponents who end up surprising them. The difference is that Lancer goes "ow this might be fun" while Saber goes "ow my head my head". Actually no I just checked the RN version and the blades shatter on their own AFTER repelling Kuizuki's attack. Well, nevertheless they do shatter, which didn't happen in the anime for a while. It still happens in anime. Also not skills of Archer - skills of original wielders of those blades. My bad, my brain has registered them as "Archer's Swords" Just like a secondary then, ʘ‿ʘ |
AhenshihaelJan 16, 2015 7:59 AM
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| U braek quote My point is in the anime they seem to fade away on their own, whereas in the VN they break after the strain from fighting. Also: Insertanamehere said: CookingPriest said: And if you have honor of fucking up at maor scale, Magi Association's leader(who is generally one of THE strongest characters in nasuverse) himself most likely would come pay a visit. And that dude can find you anywhere. Is Zelretch the leader? Because I've never seen him referred to as Director, only Wizard Marshal. |
| No. F/S N on the other hand... |
 |
Insertanamehere said: U braek quote My point is in the anime they seem to fade away on their own, whereas in the VN they break after the strain from fighting. Also: Insertanamehere said: Is Zelretch the leader? Because I've never seen him referred to as Director, only Wizard Marshal. The Director is the highest position of power in the MA, so if he's referred to as the director it means he's top dog. Which is weird because I only kinda remember Waiver calling him that in Prillya, in all the other works he's that douche that shows up in the MA to steal potential students. But he does drop rouge mages, if they've crossed the line as Fai says. |
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CookingPriest said: Just like a secondary then, ʘ‿ʘ Hey, hey, hey! That's too far. WrongPriest said: The Director is the highest position of power in the MA, so if he's referred to as the director it means he's top dog. Which is weird because I only kinda remember Waiver calling him that in Prillya, in all the other works he's that douche that shows up in the MA to steal potential students. But he does drop rouge mages, if they've crossed the line as Fai says. Oh right, there was that scene in Prillya, I guess it would be him then. |
Sourire said: No. F/S N on the other hand... I too like to live dangerously... |
| "Let Justice Be Done!" My Theme Fight again, fight again for justice! |
Insertanamehere said: CookingPriest said: Just like a secondary then, ʘ‿ʘ Hey, hey, hey! That's too far. WrongPriest said: The Director is the highest position of power in the MA, so if he's referred to as the director it means he's top dog. Which is weird because I only kinda remember Waiver calling him that in Prillya, in all the other works he's that douche that shows up in the MA to steal potential students. But he does drop rouge mages, if they've crossed the line as Fai says. Oh right, there was that scene in Prillya, I guess it would be him then. Zelretch FOUNDED the magi association and as most powerful and oldest magus alive(heeeeeheee), is the leader of it. He IS more interested in trolling people but when shit is serious he gets serious. And he DOES get involved. Remember how certain scrubs in some non-gaijin country were up in their shit creating some wish granting ritual and Zel randomly popped up going "HEY KIDS, IMA GO SUPERVISE THIS SHIT FOR NOW"? |
AhenshihaelJan 16, 2015 8:22 AM
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| I'm not sure now, Waiver calls him "Grand Master" in Prillya. So I guess that means even if there is a Director who technically is in charge of the joint, Zelretch is still that crazy nigga that started everything and therefore does w/e the f*ck he wants. Defacto owner of the place that shows up randomly while everyone in the clocktower immediately attempts to looks busy. CookingPriest said: Remember how certain scrubs in some non-gaijin country were up in their shit creating some wish granting ritual and Zel randomly popped up going "HEY KIDS, IMA GO SUPERVISE THIS SHIT FOR NOW"? We need more Zelretch fanart lol |
|
| The ending felt very empty but I guess that's how kiritsugu was by the end. |
Anime is good, fucking deal with it. |
WrongPriest said: I'm not sure now, Waiver calls him "Grand Master" in Prillya. So I guess that means even if there is a Director who technically is in charge of the joint, Zelretch is still that crazy nigga that started everything and therefore does w/e the f*ck he wants. Defacto owner of the place that shows up randomly while everyone in the clocktower immediately attempts to looks busy. CookingPriest said: Remember how certain scrubs in some non-gaijin country were up in their shit creating some wish granting ritual and Zel randomly popped up going "HEY KIDS, IMA GO SUPERVISE THIS SHIT FOR NOW"? We need more Zelretch fanart lol The director in material is described as Who does that sound to you? |
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black1blade said: The ending felt very empty but I guess that's how kiritsugu was by the end. It was an almost perfect ending though, I thought. |
JabonHR said: robis798 said: So it seems there are people who dislike Shirou even after reading the VN. Everything is right with the world. He's joking. i can smell the sarcasm in his post huehuehuehuehuehue I didn't even read the last page. I got what I wanted rofl. |
 ☩ Discord: the.path.to.pathos ☩ RateYourMusic ☩ last.fm |
Zadion said: JabonHR said: He's joking. i can smell the sarcasm in his post huehuehuehuehuehue I didn't even read the last page. I got what I wanted rofl. Zadion you heartless wench XD Not only did Insert end up writing a short novel about it but you fooled poor Robis into thinking he had another friend. That's so mean lol It's funny because I remember you had actual beef with the VN, so you made a pretty godlike Bait. ZeroDrag and BloodReq would indeed be proud. CookingPriest said: WrongPriest said: I'm not sure now, Waiver calls him "Grand Master" in Prillya. So I guess that means even if there is a Director who technically is in charge of the joint, Zelretch is still that crazy nigga that started everything and therefore does w/e the f*ck he wants. Defacto owner of the place that shows up randomly while everyone in the clocktower immediately attempts to looks busy. We need more Zelretch fanart lol The director in material is described as Who does that sound to you? .......... ........ ...... .... .. . NekoArc? |
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WrongPriest said: Zadion said: huehuehuehuehuehue I didn't even read the last page. I got what I wanted rofl. Zadion you heartless wench XD Not only did Insert end up writing a short novel about it but you fooled poor Robis into thinking he had another friend. That's so mean lol It's funny because I remember you had actual beef with the VN, so you made a pretty godlike Bait. ZeroDrag and BloodReq would indeed be proud. I wouldn't say I had much to complain about with the VN other than its awkward pacing. I love the VN, actually, but it, indeed, was not without its share of problems. Honestly, Heaven's Feel is the only route I think was executed perfectly. Both Fate and UBW both had a number of things that didn't click with me. Everything about Zero, on the other hand, did click with me. Literally everything. So, IMO, HF=FZ>UBW>Fate. That's not to take away from FSN's accomplishments. For me, FSN is very much a perfect example of "the whole being better than its parts." I gave it a 10 on VNDB even though HF is the only route I think deserves that rating. But if it helps, I definitely prefer Kiritsugu to Shirou and, while Rin is a good character, she is the worst heroine IMO. Calling her one-dimensional would be ridiculous, though. |
☩ Discord: the.path.to.pathos ☩ RateYourMusic ☩ last.fm |
Zadion said: For me, FSN is very much a perfect example of "the whole being better than its parts. Pretty much my thoughts, which is why it makes for such an currently incomplete weird anime. And why Deen attempted to make the abomination they did... well at least they tried lol |
|
| Son of a bitch. You guys just had to revive this thread didn't you... Sourire said: No. F/S N on the other hand... Unleash the Bait of Babylon |
| In my opinion it goes: HF=UBW>zero>fate |
Anime is good, fucking deal with it. |
| When it comes to Fate, I find that giving any type of opinion contradictory to the norm is interrupted as reverse bait, anyways. |
☩ Discord: the.path.to.pathos ☩ RateYourMusic ☩ last.fm |
| Can't argue with facts, right? |
| It can go as far as UBW=HF=Zero>fate but that's it. |
Anime is good, fucking deal with it. |
Zadion said: Well he gave UBW a 9 so... When it comes to Fate, I find that giving any type of opinion contradictory to the norm is interrupted as reverse bait, anyways. <.< |
 |
| I do admit that I gave UBW 10 to boost up it's ranking (deserves 8 or 9 imo) |
Anime is good, fucking deal with it. |
black1blade said: I do admit that I gave UBW 10 to boost up it's ranking (deserves 8 or 9 imo) I'd give it an 8.5-9 objectively speaking myself, the VN remains the sole F/SN work deserving of a 10/10, which is a shame. That said, it might improve in the BD's to be deserving of a 10. |
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