Anyone doesn't like Alicization ?

Sword Art Online (light novel)

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Do you like Alicization arc's concept ?

Yes

Oct 8, 2014 9:11 AM

Delca

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Jul 2014

142

First of all, I gotta say I haven't catched up to the latest vol 15 of the LN. But I know about the storyline until the end of the now offline web novel.
I created this thread out of curiousity for others' opinion. I'm in no way an SAO hater.

To be honest, I am a fan of the SAO series. I think it's getting better and better up to volume 8. I like it so much, with Phantom Bullet as my favorite arc.
But, contrary with many SAO fans, alicization feels like a let down for me. At first, I don't know why, but right now I've found a few reasons :

1. First, because the whole underworld is filled with AI or Artificial Intelligence. As its name suggest, they're artificial, they are in no way a human. I know that their fluctlight were copied from a newborn babies, but that doesn't change the fact that they are man-made.
Now, what I have in my mind is this : Kirito is trapped in a virtual world for years. He has no way of getting out, and he is the only human in that world. Worst of all, he is aware of that fact.
For me, this is even worse than being trapped in SAO. The reason is simple, you can't log out, and you're all alone.

2. He is trapped for years with his memory intact. Not knowing how to log out.
In SAO, at least he knew what he has to do to log out, which is reaching the 100th floor. But in underworld, it feels like he is lost. Kirito himself isn't certain that there's a way to log out from in-game. So, he is just trying this and that, with no guarantee that it will actually works. And from a third person perspective, we know that Kirito won't be able to log out unless his brain has recovered. Let's say it takes 7 days for him to recover, who knows how many years it will take in game ? And once again, he has his memory. All of it. He knew about the real world, and he is aware of the fact that he is trapped once again inside a virtual world.

3. The story feels like a reboot of SAO rather than a part of it.
Alicization is technically a continuation of the SAO series. But try to look at its length. From SAO, ALO, GGO, and MR, including the side stories compilation Early and Late, all of it took 8 novels long. But as of now, Alicization already has 7 novel (9-15) and is still ongoing. That's almost as long as the whole SAO series itself. Also, from what I know, this arc won't be done by only 1 more book. Thus, this single arc's length will at least be the same or even exceed all of the others arc combined.

If the story really continues the SAO series, I'm fine with that. But from what I've seen, from novel 10 onwards most of the stories are inside underworld. The characters, the world outside of that are little or not touched at all. Mind you, underworld is isolated. Which means all things happened inside are mostly unknown to the outside world (because of its acceleration) and vice versa.

So for me, it feels like this arc isn't SAO series anymore. All of the characters (save for Kirito) are new, the world told is new, isolated, and disconnected from the real one. Its length exceed the whole series, exceed all the others arc combined. It feels like the focus has switched from a world with a new amazing technology called VR to an amazing world with all amazing people and dragons that unfortunately isn't real since it is only a virtual one.

So what's your thoughts ?
And once again, I gotta say I'm not an SAO hater, so please don't treat me like one.
I'm sorry if by writing this post, anyone got offended.

Oct 8, 2014 11:26 AM

VeryNicePerson

Offline

Jul 2013

416

[Minor spoilers]

1. Your first point is valid but I don't think this is how you should look at it.
I think due to the Sword Art Online accident, Kirito became a character that cares even for NPCs. We immediately recall the moment when he disagreed with Asuna about using NPCs to distract a Boss or just every events related to Yui. This arc took the concept of Artificial Intelligence much further and blurred the boundaries between real and virtual. I guess the author want you to care about AI or NPCs [like Kirito does], and show that they are not different from humans.

The best example to illustrate that is the development of Kirito and Eugeo relationship. Despite being "trapped" in this world, he found someone that he could call a close friend for the first time of his life. He even claimed that he shares more intimacy with this artificial being than Asuna and the others.

I don't find this story like a reboot of Sword Art Online. I agree that I was surprised by the turn of events and the difference of tone used in this Arc but I consider it like an expansion of the original premise. Basically, the author took every themes/ideas [virtual world, accelerated senses, memories, NPCs, artificial intelligence, etc.] and expand them to create this world and this story like it was an answer to the "What could happen if we take these domains this far ?" question.
Like you said, this arc won't be done in only 1 book. The length only represents the "complexity and wealth" of the themes that have been developed.

2. I guess, we can only consider Kirito lost and trapped in the first volume though. Kirito almost never left the impression that his situation in Underworld is nowhere as bad as Sword Art Online. As the story goes further, Kirito enjoyed his life in Underworld and the people he met while progressing to the goal he found to end this. Not really an end because he even thought about transferring Eugeo and Alice into ALO where the others can meet them. Having his memory is extremely important for the story as it allows comparisons between Underworld and the real world or between Underworld and the events he faced during Aincrad.

3. The story mainly followed Kirito inside the Underworld with occasionally some situation report about Asuna and the real world. I can understand that some people may be disappointed to not see Kirito's old crew but the fact that Kirito is alone in this world is what makes this story that relevant; it leads to a better and more believable development for his character and the different events.

VeryNicePersonOct 8, 2014 4:42 PM

Oct 8, 2014 11:50 AM

-Karoshi-

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Mar 2012

12938

To address some objections:

1. The citizens of the Underworld are not artificial intelligence, they all have souls and are living people but can be manipulated by higher beings. A common analogy would be comparing the situation of the Underworld to us, how our actions can be dictated by a supposed God that we ourselves are not aware of. Yes, the forerunners were created artificially, but what constitutes that their offspring are also made artificially? There are no algorithms they follow other than not defying the Taboo Index, but again, we can tie that back to our version of religion and ethics. The origins of our universe are still being debated upon, what makes the Underwolrd artificial because we know their origin?

Kirito is also not alone, he already states that the people of the Underworld are no less human than him, as they all have their own personalities and aspirations. He says that he can never have a better friend than Eugeo and that they are blood brothers. The Underworld citizens are unaware that their world was made by a higher being, only an outsider like Kirito would know. Again, we can tie this back to our world, who knows that our laws of physics and perception of reality was just actually a creation from a higher omnipotent authority?

2. Kirito knows the way to log out from the very beginning. After learning that the highest authority of the world holds the title of "Administrator," his whole goal in the majority of the Alciziation arc was to reach the Axiom Church and make contact with the Administrator so he can log out. Reason why he traveled to the capital and entered the university so he can become an Integrity Knight, the only authorities allowed to enter the Axiom Church and get in contact with the Administrator. If he does reach the log out point before his physical body can recover, then he would just have to wait like Yuuki did in her Medicuboid.

3. The Sword Art Online series does not mean that everything about it should be explicitly Sword Art Online. SAO was just the starting point of everything that would lead to all these future developments. (And eventually to Accel World.) The Alicization arc has many elements that have roots to SAO such as sword skills and Kirito adapting the Aincrad style. Along with all the

The reason why Alicization is so long is because of how extensive it can be. The Aincrad arc can be just as long or even longer, which is being seen through the Progressive series. We are only counting the current releases, who knows if Progressive will exceed the number of volumes that Alicization has.

To me, this is still the Sword Art Online series. Yes, Alicization may be longer than all the previous arcs combined, but that doesn't mean we should change the series name to "Alicization." It's just one arc out of a myriad of others, it just happens to be really long.

-Karoshi-Oct 8, 2014 11:55 AM

Oct 8, 2014 9:14 PM

Delca

Offline

Jul 2014

142

First of all, thank you for all your answers, I really apreciate it :)
I feel like you two started changing my opinion on this arc.

@VeryNicePerson
You really like using a non-stopping .gif aren't you ? Both your avatar and sig succeed in making me confused already :P

Hmm, so the author wants us to care for the AI. For me however, it still hard to grasp. Okay, I know that they have their own souls and mind. But that doesn't change the fact that they are man-made.
Their consciousness are copied from a human, but they don't actually have a body or a brain. They are stored in an artificial storage called fluctlight, which is an advanced technology. But if we're looking at them once again, they aren't human nor they can ever be a human.

Me myself, I aspire to be a programmer. While I wished to be able to make an AI someday, I wouldn't want that AI to be able to break the rule / limitation that has been given to him. And that's the case with Alicization. One of the AI hacked and took over the role of an administrator. Luckily, they are isolated in underworld. Just imagine if they are released in The real world, just what might happen ?
At the end of alicization arc

Tl;dr : I just couldn't find a good reason to symphaty with the AI.

@LastChapter : I understand the analogy you made. But, our God is someone that we can talk about all day long and never reached a conclusion. But, the "gods" of underworld are human and we knew almost all about them. Sure, from an underworld's citizen perspective they do not know anything about their "god". But can we look at our own perspective as a third person ?
They are in a virtual world, in a machine, and they are man-made. They are not a human and they can never be a human. Just like us, we can never be a God, no matter how similar we are.

By the way, you seemed to be aware of the web novel's ending, right ?
If that's the case, I want to ask your opinion about something.
CONTAINS MATERIALS FROM THE WEB NOVEL, OPENING THIS MEANS SPOILING THE END OF SAO SERIES.

PS : Seems like reality is blurred for me too. Thinking this far for the sake of a fiction series. -_-
Sorry if I'm writing anything weird or unreasonable. I think exams have entangled a few cables in my brain.

DelcaOct 8, 2014 9:26 PM

Oct 11, 2014 6:35 AM

VeryNicePerson

Offline

Jul 2013

416

Delca said:
First of all, thank you for all your answers, I really appreciate it :)
I feel like you two started changing my opinion on this arc.

@VeryNicePerson
You really like using a non-stopping .gif aren't you ? Both your avatar and sig succeed in making me confused already :P

Hmm, so the author wants us to care for the AI. For me however, it still hard to grasp. Okay, I know that they have their own souls and mind. But that doesn't change the fact that they are man-made.
Their consciousness are copied from a human, but they don't actually have a body or a brain. They are stored in an artificial storage called fluctlight, which is an advanced technology. But if we're looking at them once again, they aren't human nor they can ever be a human.

Me myself, I aspire to be a programmer. While I wished to be able to make an AI someday, I wouldn't want that AI to be able to break the rule / limitation that has been given to him. And that's the case with Alicization. One of the AI hacked and took over the role of an administrator. Luckily, they are isolated in underworld. Just imagine if they are released in The real world, just what might happen ?
At the end of alicization arc

Tl;dr : I just couldn't find a good reason to sympathy with the AI.

I guess it's a bad habit of mine. Check LastChapter' signature link, you will be more confused.

Is that not a symbol of human behavior ? It is human, whether it's "good" [Eugeo/Alice' actions] or "bad" [Quinella' actions] to obey or break rules, to claim freedom, to impose, to revolt, to take control, to manipulate, to sacrifice, etc. Despite being non human entities as you claim, these manners show strong similarities with human being.

Entities from Alicization are far from the state of IAs nowadays. I guess it simply shows what could happen if it evolves this far. It's not the first time that writers, movies, or games show that technology can rise against men.

Also, I know the novels let you enjoy the third person perspective but try to focus more on Kirito's POV.

Apr 11, 2015 5:06 PM

ArctChinNism

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Apr 2015

Well at least the concept is a progress... Don't just read the novel put yourself into it... for me its the best concept of SAO whatsoever

Aug 12, 2015 6:08 AM

Cody_Abbott

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Jul 2015

530

I'm with you and am a huge SAO fan. I'll be the first to say I havent read or know all about the arc but I know enough to grasp what everything is.

1. My big thing is just what you said about them being AI. I know the whole deal that they have human souls put into them and can think and are supposedly just like humans but the fact is no matter what the author says or does with them they are still AI and not human. Of course Kirito can accept them as nothing different than humans. He is so deep into ai and the dive technology and virtual reality in genrel. Just like you said even back in the Aincraid arc the thing with not wanting to kill npcs to get through. It's obvious Kirito is alot different with AI than most even in terms of SAO charries. Just because Kirito can accept them doesn't mean the reader can and for me at least all interaction and story progress being with AI takes alot from the story for me.

2.I do feel it is long compared to the others as well but don't really have a problem with it. I think however that the main point despite what most think of the alic arc so far wasn't to preogress the SAO story or Kiritos Charrie but to explain more about the tech and combine/bring it into Accel World. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing but could go bad depending how they go with it. It has been speculated forever that SAO and Accel World would be linked eventually with SAO being the sort of beginning AI/Full dive tech and everything and Accel being the new world stuff. The fact that they eluded to creating a tech that combines the real world with the virtula [Accel world 1 o 1] I think shows more that there heading toward that. There are different theories like The main girl of Accel World being Kirito and Asunas daughter as well as Kirito being a king in the accel world or whatever. Honestly I haven't read the Accel World novels i've only watched the anime and it's been awhile. I'm about 95% sure though that they are going to combine SAO into Accel world one way or another.

3. I feel that though there is a chance it could be alright that doing this will diminish SAO big time. If you are a accel world fan then it's no problem but most ways that they could go with it combining them I feel they will make the SAO stuff and things that happened in SAO look like nothing compared to the things and new tech in Accel World. Diminishing the SAO story. I Honestly just wish that after the Gun Gale Arc or even before but I didn't mind the Gun Gale arc that they would have focused more on real life and Kirito/Asuna and the others. They just introduce to many charries in SAO and don't focus enough on the mains other than Kirito. Asuna for example is Asuna....she is Kirito wife/girlfriend and pretty much after the Aincraid arc other than Mothers Rosario all the way through gg arc and all of alic she is almost uninvolved. I feel they should have just came up with something and focused on things with vr in real life for awhile atleast before jumping into all the other crazy stuff. I'm spit balling randomley i'm sure theres other stuff but they could have had Kirito still working on his vr stuff and maybe made some real life problems with it sort of like in alic started using it for military purposes and everything. I just feel they jump around to different stuff to much and don't focus on what everyone mostly loved and what got SAo popular in the first place which is the Aincraid arc style and the charries from that arc.

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Sep 2, 2015 9:34 AM

Kaiser-chan

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Nov 2011

14556

Well, its impossible to please everyone but for me, Alicization arc is what make me like the series, its a huge improvement from the previous arcs, the new characters are way more interesting than old one, at least now not every female characters is after Kirito's sword.

Sep 12, 2015 9:12 PM

razuisana

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Sep 2015

All profitable things will continue to exist even if they must sacrifice the story. For example, Naruto will still continue until the world ends. It's just like making a business, if the story ends that means their profit will be stopped, so they must keep making a new story.

Sep 17, 2015 1:38 PM

#10

Baku0009

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Jun 2015

razuisana said:
All profitable things will continue to exist even if they must sacrifice the story. For example, Naruto will still continue until the world ends. It's just like making a business, if the story ends that means their profit will be stopped, so they must keep making a new story.

I dont think this is whats happening her. If im not mistake, Alicization started before SAO was popular

Oct 1, 2015 10:42 AM

#11

CG-Silver

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Apr 2015

1194

Get your facts straight. SAO was originally a web novel so the whole thing existed even before the LN were first sold.

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