| http://www.thestar.com/news/world/2014/08/30/scotlands_independence_vote_watched_closely_around_world_burman.html On September 18, 2014 the people of Scotland will vote in a referendum over whether or not Scotland should be an Independent country and leave the United Kingdom. So, admittedly, I don't know too much about this issue but it is gaining more and more attention, even here in the U.S. So, what do you think? Should Scotland be independent from UK? Yes or No? and why? What would an independent Scotland mean to the UK? Will their economy suffer? Will the Pound suffer? |
| I'm not sure why Scotland is aiming for independence but I feel it's not going to work out so well even if it does succeed. |
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| Hope that whatever happens would be for the best. |
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| They can't support themselves economically, as Scotland posesses very little industry, especially following the closing down of the granite mines. They depend upon England more than most people realise. |
| I'd say there's better than a 90% chance the measure will fail. From what I've seen, most Scotsmen either don't care or aren't that stupid. Going independent right now would be like shooting themselves in the gut, not just the foot. And if the measure doesn't fail at the ballot, there's a 99% chance it will in implementation, and they might even come begging to be let back in. As has been noted, Scotland does not have sufficient industrial or financial sectors to jump off on its own. Ironically, this is part of what angers them - they've been shafted as far as development is concerned and they know it. |
| I'm a Québec separatist so I naturally side with the Scottish on their quest for independence. I wish they will have more courage than we had here! |
| They should make it so they become independent on July 4th next year |
| [size=200]MAL AVATAR SYSTEM BLOWS |
| So much for uniting the world. Everyone just wants to be alone. |
| I hope that turns out well. |
| Yes please, let the entire western world balkanize. |
LJohnAug 31, 2014 2:40 AM
| Scotland has the SNP in charge. And for those who don't know that is a nationalist party, or what I like to call a Nazi party, it really says it all about Scotland, who has some kind of victim attitude and makes it out as if they were oppressed. Do you know how much hate and abuse the BNP get in the media over here in England and Wales, they are a laughing stock, yet Scotland completely fine with their SNP equivalent. As for the whole Independence thing, its all empty promises on SNP part, they for some fucking stupid reason want to keep the pound, which they can but the UK has already said they will not allow a Currency Union, which means UK can fuck over Scotland when ever it wants. It will be the equivalent of countries like in Africa which use the US dollar but have no say what's so ever in its control. Scotland also wants to join the EU as well, which would mean they would just be controlled in Brussels instead of London, also the EU has stated any new members must adopt the Euro, yet the fuckwits SNP somehow think they can get in otherwise. Final The UK can also veto Scotland from join EU as a final fuck you. Actually the UK can Veto, Scotland out of lots of things. Also btw SNP thinks its a good idea to default on their debts when they become independent, lets see how the World Markets will react to that. |
ElPysCongroo said: Scotland has the SNP in charge. And for those who don't know that is a nationalist party, or what I like to call a Nazi party, it really says it all about Scotland, who has some kind of victim attitude and makes it out as if they were oppressed. Do you know how much hate and abuse the BNP get in the media over here in England and Wales, they are a laughing stock, yet Scotland completely fine with their SNP equivalent. Oh for goodness sake. If you're going to hate on them, go ahead. But at least criticise them based on reality, or else it's you that ends up looking the idiot for it. Where's the SNP's intolerance of minority groups? After all, that's the main thing that the BNP, and indeed the Nazis, are criticised for. the EU has stated any new members must adopt the Euro, yet the fuckwits SNP somehow think they can get in otherwise. Actually, that's untested ground. It's perfectly possible that Scotland could argue itself as already being a part of the EU and thus not need to go through with that. Even if it doesn't, it could just put itself in the same situation as Sweden - as in, agreeing to join the Euro at some point in the future, but never actually doing it. Indeed, if Scotland can't keep the pound, it's perfectly possible that joining the Euro is more viable than creating its own currency and the institutions that would have to go with it. Final The UK can also veto Scotland from join EU as a final fuck you. Actually the UK can Veto, Scotland out of lots of things. Why the hell would it do that though? Remember, the UK government helped organise this referendum and is obliged to accept its result. Also btw SNP thinks its a good idea to default on their debts when they become independent, lets see how the World Markets will react to that. Good idea? No, that's misinterpreting a statement that they would default once on inherited debt from the (former) UK. Not an Argentina-style 'default on our debts as a matter of course every few years'. |
| There is no such thing as shit taste. Only idiots who think everyone should have the same taste as they do. |
kuuderes_shadow said: Oh for goodness sake. If you're going to hate on them, go ahead. But at least criticise them based on reality, or else it's you that ends up looking the idiot for it. Where's the SNP's intolerance of minority groups? After all, that's the main thing that the BNP, and indeed the Nazis, are criticised for. It will come part of their agenda eventually, if your not Scottish it ain't going to be looking good. kuuderes_shadow said: Actually, that's untested ground. It's perfectly possible that Scotland could argue itself as already being a part of the EU and thus not need to go through with that. Even if it doesn't, it could just put itself in the same situation as Sweden - as in, agreeing to join the Euro at some point in the future, but never actually doing it. Indeed, if Scotland can't keep the pound, it's perfectly possible that joining the Euro is more viable than creating its own currency and the institutions that would have to go with it. Sound a lot of what ifs and uncertainty, for such a big important decision. kuuderes_shadow said: Why the hell would it do that though? Remember, the UK government helped organise this referendum and is obliged to accept its result. Why wouldn't it, Scotland is trying to pass of all its debts on to the rest of the UK, or default. Also if England is as bad as Scotland always makes them out to be, why wouldn't they veto just to spite. kuuderes_shadow said: Good idea? No, that's misinterpreting a statement that they would default once on inherited debt from the (former) UK. Not an Argentina-style 'default on our debts as a matter of course every few years'. No, its still a default, and its Scotland's debts as well |
ElPysCongroo said: kuuderes_shadow said: Oh for goodness sake. If you're going to hate on them, go ahead. But at least criticise them based on reality, or else it's you that ends up looking the idiot for it. Where's the SNP's intolerance of minority groups? After all, that's the main thing that the BNP, and indeed the Nazis, are criticised for. It will come part of their agenda eventually, if your not Scottish it ain't going to be looking good. Given that they've spent the last 30 years moving in the opposite direction (indeed the SNP is now probably the UK's most pro-immigration mainstream political party), I really don't see how you can come to that conclusion. It's theoretically possible, but the same could be said for any political party. kuuderes_shadow said: Actually, that's untested ground. It's perfectly possible that Scotland could argue itself as already being a part of the EU and thus not need to go through with that. Even if it doesn't, it could just put itself in the same situation as Sweden - as in, agreeing to join the Euro at some point in the future, but never actually doing it. Indeed, if Scotland can't keep the pound, it's perfectly possible that joining the Euro is more viable than creating its own currency and the institutions that would have to go with it. Sound a lot of what ifs and uncertainty, for such a big important decision. There are still quite a few of them, yes. And most of these involve the impact on the UK's position on an international level - not just with regards to a separate Scotland, but also with regards to the rest of the UK. kuuderes_shadow said: Why the hell would it do that though? Remember, the UK government helped organise this referendum and is obliged to accept its result. Why wouldn't it, Scotland is trying to pass of all its debts on to the rest of the UK, or default. Also if England is as bad as Scotland always makes them out to be, why wouldn't they veto just to spite. Because vetoing just to spite someone is stupid? Especially when the UK has far more to gain from Scotland being a member of these institutions than anyone else. kuuderes_shadow said: Good idea? No, that's misinterpreting a statement that they would default once on inherited debt from the (former) UK. Not an Argentina-style 'default on our debts as a matter of course every few years'. No, its still a default, and its Scotland's debts as well It is a default, yes. And it would likely have an impact on the country's credit rating ability to get loans at first, yes. After a few years that would wear off, though, as potential creditors come to realise that it was just a one off incident. National defaults on debt haven't been all that unusual historically, so it's not as though it would scar the world or something. |
| There is no such thing as shit taste. Only idiots who think everyone should have the same taste as they do. |
| they should do it, eff the UK. scotland should leave and merge with Euro to help stabilize....what Ireland did and it seems to be working out just fine... |
| "What a pitty, for such a intelligent young lady to be so brain washed by the organization...but ill be happy to respond to your lecture, unfortunately the real world isnt always so black and white..little claymore" Teresa Of The Faint Smile. https://www.facebook.com/InappropriateOperator |
MrAnimeFan said: they should do it, eff the UK. scotland should leave and merge with Euro to help stabilize....what Ireland did and it seems to be working out just fine... Fuck that, Britain needs to stay united. They may have their differences and rough history, but the EU is far from the solution. |
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MrAnimeFan said: they should do it, eff the UK. scotland should leave and merge with Euro to help stabilize....what Ireland did and it seems to be working out just fine... Ireland really isn't a country, you should model your own on, its one of the PIIGS of Europe for a reason. And joining the EU is hardly independence, if Scotland wants independence go the whole way with it like Canada, Australia not this half ass shit, using a currency without a union is just asking to be fucked over. Does Scotland really want to place themselves in the same group as countries like Venezuela, who use a foreign currency (i.e. the US Dollar) with no actual control. |
Cyaegha said: They can't support themselves economically, as Scotland posesses very little industry, especially following the closing down of the granite mines. They depend upon England more than most people realise. You do realise their water contains the biggest oil reserves in the EU don't you? That water is also great for the fishing industry. They produce something like 30% of the computers in Europe and their whiskey industry is still huge. Totally reliant in the English though, you clearly know something I don't. |
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| Realistically though they'll vote for whatever will piss the English off the most. |
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KeiranShikari said: Cyaegha said: They can't support themselves economically, as Scotland posesses very little industry, especially following the closing down of the granite mines. They depend upon England more than most people realise. You do realise their water contains the biggest oil reserves in the EU don't you? That water is also great for the fishing industry. They produce something like 30% of the computers in Europe and their whiskey industry is still huge. Totally reliant in the English though, you clearly know something I don't. Scolands economy amounts to about £145 billion(including Oil) they pay about £43 billion in tax a year, public spending last 3-4 years has been around £55-65 billion a year so if they want to go independent they'll either have to hike taxes or cut spending or more likely both if they want to maintain what they have currently. Been English I don't give 2 shits if they go or don't. |
| probably won't happen, but it'd be hilarious if they split |
| http://kagami77.imgur.com/ Latest event pictures: Lucky Star Hiiragi Sister's Birthday Event (7/7), Nisekoifes (6/22), Wake Up, Girls! FESTA. (4/27) |
| I am living in Scotland and I will be voting "NO" because there will just be too much problems to be faced. Sorry I forgot, some people are only voting *Yes* is due to the fact about the historic war between England and Scotland. |
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Newhopes said: Scolands economy amounts to about £145 billion(including Oil) they pay about £43 billion in tax a year, public spending last 3-4 years has been around £55-65 billion a year so if they want to go independent they'll either have to hike taxes or cut spending or more likely both if they want to maintain what they have currently. If you meet a few relatively basic conditions, it's perfectly possible (and indeed fairly normal) to run a country with a small, long term budget deficit with no negative knock on impacts on the country's economy. That said, if the SNP decide to carry out their threat of defaulting on their inherited share of the debt, then this would not be an option until their credit rating recovers. |
| There is no such thing as shit taste. Only idiots who think everyone should have the same taste as they do. |
| If they break off and institute a Milton Friedman style economy then hell yeah. If not then it's useless to me. |
| Let's go bowling. |
| Respect the people. Not like what is happening in Ukraine right now. I think this will go peacefully and while I think the result will be "no", I would recomment respecting EVERY decision :) |
| S H O U T _ O L D _ B U T _ G O L D |
WeShootBurglars said: you clearly know something I don't. Yes, like actually being to Scotland and seeing exactly how it actually is there. Or god forbid my own father and his family being Scottish and having lived to see what became of their own home country. You mean like that? |
| http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_JS5WCO31Y Our big brother Scotland won't last I don't want they to leave.......we in the British island's are a big family.........with ups and down....but still a family |
geekfreak17aSep 7, 2014 11:13 PM
| I dislike lelouch vi Britannia. im a shiki supporter my YouTube channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCR90F0rzcss4CsrAbkZXTkg/featured?view_as=subscriber Just past the 1500th Mark bitches I approve this video http://youtu.be/U_0CCLxibFk |
| Iceland will annex them |
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| In that case wouldn't be United Kingdom anymore :) |
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DeathNyx said: In that case wouldn't be United Kingdom anymore :) Actually the United Kingdom was the union of the Great Britain and Ireland. Great Britain was the union of Scotland and England (and Wales). So it probably will be called the United Kingdom of England, Wales and Northern Ireland. |
| Scotland is England's brothers along side it's bothers northern Ireland, Wales and its older sister southern Ireland who rebelled against us years ago |
| I dislike lelouch vi Britannia. im a shiki supporter my YouTube channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCR90F0rzcss4CsrAbkZXTkg/featured?view_as=subscriber Just past the 1500th Mark bitches I approve this video http://youtu.be/U_0CCLxibFk |
| Live under the Crown or die! |
| There is only one choice for Scotland... Seriously....go for it! |
| Is special political autonomy is not possible within England or UK? I haven't read much from the news, but I assume team England had only propose for economic autonomy. |
| The most important things in life is the people that you care about |
azzuRe said: Is special political autonomy is not possible within England or UK? I haven't read much from the news, but I assume team England had only propose for economic autonomy. Scotland has it's own government, with powers over: Transport Education Agriculture and related industries Healthcare Housing Social Services Scottish laws The environment Local Government The only real powers left in Westminster are: Tax raising powers - which are being offered at varying levels by the different Westminster parties Welfare and Pensions - which are also being offered at varying levels by the different Westminster parties The power to borrow money in the same way as a national government - which is being offered by the Lib Dems A few elements of transport that cannot be effectively devolved. Energy policy Defence Foreign Affairs (including foreign policy, membership of international bodies and immigration) Constitutional matters Consumer rights - which, unlike any other policy area, has its basis mainly in EU regulations (that the UK was at the forefront of pushing for) These last six things really couldn't be devolved effectively, and the first two (transport and energy) would still need to be managed across borders even with an independent Scotland (and I would be very surprised if defence wasn't also). If you add together all the offers by Labour/Lib Dems/Conservatives (a bit of a stretch, I know - but I'd be willing to bet that in the event of a No vote the SNP would push for all of them), then the only thing that is missing from the proposals which could still be devolved is pensions. Obviously if the vote goes in favour of independence, the Scottish parliament will gain control over all these things, although as I already mentioned they would probably have to cooperate strongly with Westminster over some of them. Scotland would likely have the upper hand on Energy negotiations, Westminster would likely have the upper hand on anything and everything else. I left monetary policy out of the lists completely as that comes with having your own currency. Which even the SNP doesn't want. And what the hell is "Team England"? |
| There is no such thing as shit taste. Only idiots who think everyone should have the same taste as they do. |
kuuderes_shadow said: azzuRe said: Is special political autonomy is not possible within England or UK? I haven't read much from the news, but I assume team England had only propose for economic autonomy. Scotland has it's own government, with powers over: Transport Education Agriculture and related industries Healthcare Housing Social Services Scottish laws The environment Local Government The only real powers left in Westminster are: Tax raising powers - which are being offered at varying levels by the different Westminster parties Welfare and Pensions - which are also being offered at varying levels by the different Westminster parties The power to borrow money in the same way as a national government - which is being offered by the Lib Dems A few elements of transport that cannot be effectively devolved. Energy policy Defence Foreign Affairs (including foreign policy, membership of international bodies and immigration) Constitutional matters Consumer rights - which, unlike any other policy area, has its basis mainly in EU regulations (that the UK was at the forefront of pushing for) These last six things really couldn't be devolved effectively, and the first two (transport and energy) would still need to be managed across borders even with an independent Scotland (and I would be very surprised if defence wasn't also). If you add together all the offers by Labour/Lib Dems/Conservatives (a bit of a stretch, I know - but I'd be willing to bet that in the event of a No vote the SNP would push for all of them), then the only thing that is missing from the proposals which could still be devolved is pensions. Obviously if the vote goes in favour of independence, the Scottish parliament will gain control over all these things, although as I already mentioned they would probably have to cooperate strongly with Westminster over some of them. Scotland would likely have the upper hand on Energy negotiations, Westminster would likely have the upper hand on anything and everything else. I left monetary policy out of the lists completely as that comes with having your own currency. Which even the SNP doesn't want. And what the hell is "Team England"? Thank you for the explanation, I was blind about the issue and confused about the media that keep saying Scotland had no real political freedom, so it seems its more of a sovereignty issue over their own subject well-being rather than the demand for political acknowledgement. Frankly I have no opinion about it, but I think people of Scotland would makes the best decision for themselves. lol. "Team England" is a pun I referred to the creation of the Kingdom of Great Britain. |
| The most important things in life is the people that you care about |
| Since I'm not directly affected by the decision, it's easy for me to say that the Scots should decide for themselves in that referendum. However, I believe that both Scotland and the rest of the United Kingdom are better off together. Of course, Scotland might sustain itself quite well with its oil reserves and a possible entry in the European Union at latest, when the people from the rest UK would decide to leave and thus not having a potential vote against them joining the EU, but from my point of view, a more fragmented Europe doesn't appear to be the right answer. But how is Scotland going to sustain itself after the oil reserves are going down? Also, the rest UK would lose a lot of its current economical and military power if Scotland would gain control over the submarine base and as a result of the mother state becoming fragmented. The possibility alone that Scotland might become independent has already let the Pound Sterling fall down. Besides, it would be questionable whether "little UK" would overtake France and/or Germany in the near future. By 2050, (Western-)Europe will become less strong in economical power, so to stop becoming unimportant as an individual, in my opinion, it's better to unite and have still a powerful vote in the future: I certainly don't like having a Holy Roman Empire-like situation in which every country has its own tariffs, currency and measuring units. |
| Well that's to be expected. Who wants to have another state to pay for? So that means after Scotland loses its oil reserves, it's going to become bankrupt? Even less a reason to become independent then. |
JD2411 said: I just learned that the yes campaign are saying scotland will easily get EU admission. This is completely wrong. I know Spain, Italy, Romania and Germany are against scotland's membership and I've read in several articles that the chance of admission is almost impossible. Spain has already said they'd veto Scotland entering. |
Newhopes said: JD2411 said: I just learned that the yes campaign are saying scotland will easily get EU admission. This is completely wrong. I know Spain, Italy, Romania and Germany are against scotland's membership and I've read in several articles that the chance of admission is almost impossible. Spain has already said they'd veto Scotland entering. Of course they would. Castille... huh, I mean Spain, doesn't want to let go of Catalonia, the Basque Country and Galicia either. So if Scotland became an independent state this could turn into a snowball effect. |
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| If the Scottish people vote to leave the UK, I hope they also abandon the English language and start to only speak Gaelic. |
AkibaNachtreiter said: If the Scottish people vote to leave the UK, I hope they also abandon the English language and start to only speak Gaelic. Scotland speaking only Gaelic would make about as much sense as England only speaking Cornish. |
| There is no such thing as shit taste. Only idiots who think everyone should have the same taste as they do. |
JD2411 said: the snp has done an awful job of handling this. their entire campaign has been nothing more than 'muh freedom'. scottish people don't even know what the consequences of independence will be the really annoying thing is that the snp are blackmailing the union by saying "let us keep the pound or we're not taking the national debt any person with an IQ consisting of more than 1 number will realise what a terrible choice scottish independence would be. Yup really unimpressed with the SNP they don't seem to have any solid plans for the future. They seem to want their cake and eat it without having to deal with the consequences, they want to keep their current living standards yet won't reveal how they're going to deal with their almost £20 billion spending deficit apart from we have da oil. If I was the British government right now I'd be putting in a no bail out clause into the spilt because I don't see a very pretty future for scotland. |
| They will suffer greatly if they separate. I cant understand why are they even doing this. Whats on their minds? Are they wish to become another banana country? to be honest I m surprised UK even let this referendum to happen. |
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