Sword Art Online II Episode 4 Discussion

Jul 29, 2014 5:35 PM

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Oct 2012

6648

Caleb8980 said:
Yeah just like many other things they went and indirectly showed it to us, but as I said
above, they did this too often and sometimes at the worst possible parts ;-)

One of the things that I really love about the Japanese is that they don't feel the need to explain each and every little thing to the reader/viewer, the rely on the person to be able to figure out things for themselves, making them an active part of the story.

The trouble with SAO/ALO wasn't that they were implying things, but rather that the adapters decided to rearrange the parts chronologically without taking any care to see if the parts actually fit together in a way that made any sense as a narrative. And because people were too busy trying to figure out what exactly was going on, they couldn't focus on getting the implications of what the things that were going on meant. What the needed to do wasn't to cut things, but actually provide a coat of lacquer over the sequence they had created.

Jul 29, 2014 6:16 PM

#762

Rolanddeschain

Offline

Jul 2014

417

Takuan_Soho said:

Caleb8980 said:
Yeah just like many other things they went and indirectly showed it to us, but as I said
above, they did this too often and sometimes at the worst possible parts ;-)

One of the things that I really love about the Japanese is that they don't feel the need to explain each and every little thing to the reader/viewer, the rely on the person to be able to figure out things for themselves, making them an active part of the story.

The trouble with SAO/ALO wasn't that they were implying things, but rather that the adapters decided to rearrange the parts chronologically without taking any care to see if the parts actually fit together in a way that made any sense as a narrative. And because people were too busy trying to figure out what exactly was going on, they couldn't focus on getting the implications of what the things that were going on meant. What the needed to do wasn't to cut things, but actually provide a coat of lacquer over the sequence they had created.

There was no trap, don´t forget that

Jul 29, 2014 6:44 PM

#763

TastyMmmYum

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Jul 2014

17

Forgetfulness said:

A_Lonely_Jedi said:
So seeing him be better than everybody else and not exactly seeing why, but subtly being explained isn't enough? Why can't you just enjoy the anime without having to see every little thing in detail?

Lol I don't think you know the difference between being subtle and throwing important scenes out the window for the sake of maximizing time with the waifuz

The only thing I can say is if you want to know everything then watch the author's commentaries and read the light novels, but if you don't want to then that is your loss not everything can be in the adaptation all the time.

Firstly, I was criticizing the anime only, not the overall franchise
But hey, thanks for actually admitting that I am right and that the anime adaptation did not show the necessary information.

Wow after reading some of your posts you seem really anal about them showing every tiny thing. I guess you're the type who's probably not satisfied with any adaptation ever of a book or novel because shoving the details in hundreds of pages into a 2 hour movie or 25 minute weekly episodes is impossible. You can make the same argument about literally any visual adaptation of written literature, not just SAO.

Like other people have pointed out, Klein states that he is skipping out on sleep to train. He is shown in one episode solo training with some lizard monsters. How is that not proof enough for you? Probably the only way you would be satisfied is if the anime had a 5 minute montage of him training in every single episode, because that's literally what you do to level up in MMOs - you grind and grind and grind. Maybe only THEN would you believe the "excuse" that Kirito has high stats.

If you want to "see" everything, then you should just go read the source material. That's what all media purists should do anyway, because the book or LN is pretty much always the best. Visual adaptations just capture the big picture. Don't watch a big picture medium and then criticize it for showing the big picture.

TastyMmmYumJul 29, 2014 6:50 PM

Jul 29, 2014 7:06 PM

#764

neonBdragon

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Jul 2012

2247

So Kirito is a trap and not a real women, interesting.

The cowboy shooting game was great.

Great episode!!!

Jul 29, 2014 8:01 PM

#765

TastyMmmYum

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Jul 2014

17

Forgetfulness said:

TastyMmmYum said:

Wow after reading some of your posts you seem really anal about them showing every tiny thing. I guess you're the type who's probably not satisfied with any adaptation ever of a book or novel because shoving the details in hundreds of pages into a 2 hour movie or 25 minute weekly episodes is impossible. You can make the same argument about literally any visual adaptation of written literature, not just SAO.

Like other people have pointed out, Klein states that he is skipping out on sleep to train. He is shown in one episode solo training with some lizard monsters. How is that not proof enough for you? Probably the only way you would be satisfied is if the anime had a 5 minute montage of him training in every single episode, because that's literally what you do to level up in MMOs - you grind and grind and grind. Maybe only THEN would you believe the "excuse" that Kirito has high stats.

If you want to "see" everything, then you should just go read the source material. That's what all media purists should do anyway, because the book or LN is pretty much always the best. Visual adaptations just capture the big picture. Don't watch a big picture medium and then criticize it for showing the big picture.

I would be content if they actually focused on the boss fights for a decent amount of time and not mostly Kirito's life dicking around with all the gurlz if I were to go by Fai's claim that "he spent every day training". I think around ~9 of the 14 (not exactly sure) episodes in SAO are mostly Kirito's individual SoL episodes with the girls, Asuna, or someone else. Basically my problem is the small amount of evidence for such a large claim.
And while all of you have given some proof of him training to some extent, my claim that they didn't explain the eyes tactic still stands (unless they plan to explain it in a subsequent episode)

And I'm saying that the anime fails to show what the LN did. People have posted the relevant passages and I know there is a proper explanation. I don't want to "see everything", I'm just saying that the anime does not allow you to "see everything" like the light novel does.

Well that's a failure of all visual adaptations now isn't it? You'll never "see everything" in a visual adaptation the way you will with a book or LN, and that's just something you'll have to accept if you want to watch said visual adaptations. I think what they did show is more than sufficient to get the point across that there was a lot of training involved. Grinding in an MMO a lot of times isn't fun even if you're actually playing the MMO, so watching him train and wasting precious screen time on it isn't exactly the way to go.

I'll agree with your point about the dicking around though. While I personally feel that focusing on characterization instead of more fight scenes was the right decision, what they did was kind of a sorry excuse for characterization. Right idea, terrible execution.

And as for the eye thing, I don't know about the LN stuff because I never read it, but the idea that he uses eye movement to anticipate shots is at least believable. There have been worse explanations out there. In this episode when he's running down the corridor, in the scene where he runs left and then right, they focus in on the robot's eyes mirroring his movements, then firing. I think the point is that everyone in the game relying on the bullet prediction lines has crippled their instincts, while Kirito, coming from a game that has no prediction lines, and where not dodging attacks literally meant death, is probably a lot more attuned to stuff like that.

They probably could have explained that more explicitly, but again, there have been worse and I think it's enough if you reflect on it a little. The last thing I want to happen is for them to spoonfeed us everything, or worse shove it in our faces.

Jul 29, 2014 8:22 PM

#766

Takuan_Soho

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Oct 2012

6648

Forgetfulness said:
And while all of you have given some proof of him training to some extent, my claim that they didn't explain the eyes tactic still stands (unless they plan to explain it in a subsequent episode)

And I'm saying that the anime fails to show what the LN did. People have posted the relevant passages and I know there is a proper explanation. I don't want to "see everything", I'm just saying that the anime does not allow you to "see everything" like the light novel does.

In the second episode of SAO, when Kirito beat the 1st floor boss, they specifically mentioned he was able to read the attack pattern of the character. So even from the beginning of the series they made it clear that this was a skill he had (based primarily on being a beta player).

So no they didn't specifically explain an "eye tactic" because there are many different tactics that the monsters used, but when Shion explained the game (that in GGO there are bullet tracers) and Kirito watched the other player try to win, he figured out the particular pattern needed to defeat this particular game. And this is something that all the front line SAO players had figured out. Take episode 13 for instance, the monster would turn and look before attacking each and every time, so developing the skill set of watching the eyes of the opponents was a valuable one.

All games have patterns, when playing against the program the way to win is to figure out the pattern. That is what the true skill is (though reflexes certainly is another valuable skill).

Jul 29, 2014 8:46 PM

#767

Takuan_Soho

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Oct 2012

6648

Forgetfulness said:
Again with the false analogies? (ironically this is also about game algorithms and patterns lol)

False? One can always tell when an opponent really has little left in the tank because they start attacking the meta argument rather than the argument.

Forgetfulness said:
In the case of first floor boss, Kirito says he beat a higher-floored boss during beta with a similar attack pattern. He did not "figure it out", he'd already seen it before.

Kirito said? You seem to be forgetting that the entire scene was Kirito attempt to draw all the "anti beta" hatred onto himself. Of course he said that, he was playing the villain (hence the black cloak) at that time. Remember the whole "cheater" conversation? Besides it doesn't matter HOW he learned them, the important this is that he REMEMBERED the patterns. Everything after that is merely experience (which we know that Kirito has)

Forgetfulness said:
And you're also wrong about the game. Kirito did not "figure out the particular pattern" for the shooting game by watching another player. He deduced the shooting positions and dodged them as he played the game himself because the cowboy doesn't have a set shooting pattern as far as we know.

The gunfighter's first three attacks were exactly the same. The difference being that Kirito, in not stopping was much closer to the shooter, the only thing that Kirito didn't know by watching is that the gunfighter would auto fire at the end, but on this he noticed that the robot was looking directly at him and figured out that the robot would fire in that direction, which is why he jumped (something that was outside of the robot's programming).

Forgetfulness said:
And yes, I am aware of the behavior that it has that the monsters/NPCs are set to look somewhere before attacking. It would just help if they actually explained the existence of such pattern at some point (which may happen in the future)

You are missing the point, there isn't just "one" pattern, there are hundreds of patterns. Kirito, because of his SAO experience knows nearly all of them, an advantage only a few front line players from SAO would share with him because more than just being "gamers", they risked their lives on playing that game.

Lets go back to the first episode. Kirito completely knew the attack pattern of the Boar when he was instructing Klein on how to play the game. For Klein, being a newbie, the pattern was unpredictable, but for an experienced player like Kirito it was easy. They reinforced this at the end of the episode when the wolf attacked Kirito and he didn't even have to stop to defeat it.

How many spoonfuls more do you need before you get it?

Jul 29, 2014 9:05 PM

#768

-Riptide-

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Oct 2013

3421

You guys are still arguing about the shooting game? Can't we all just agree that the anime didn't fully explain that the NPC looks at where he is aiming and that Kirito knows about it? He did not know the pattern in which the NPC will shoot beforehand but by looking in the NPC's eyes, he deduced where the NPC will aim. And yes it is not explained clearly in the anime and most of the time only LN readers will get it.

Jul 29, 2014 9:11 PM

#769

-Riptide-

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Oct 2013

3421

Forgetfulness said:

-Riptide- said:
You guys are still arguing about the shooting game? Can't we all just agree...

I wish

Well shit.

Jul 29, 2014 9:37 PM

#770

TastyMmmYum

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Jul 2014

17

Forgetfulness said:
By the way, Takuan_Soho, since it seems from your posts that you aren't aware of how Kirito actually beat the game here is the relevant LN passage that someone in this thread pulled up already

So as you can see, no "patterns" were used. Only collecting and processing information on the spot

Like I said before, this is shown in the anime. We see him running left and right in the mini-game, and then we see the NPC's eyes move left and right to follow him. We wouldn't see this scene if we weren't meant to know that NPCs do indeed look at their target. Afterwards when Sinon points out there there's virtually no delay between when the prediction lines appear and when the shot is taken, Kirito says that he predicted the prediction lines. How? By following the NPC's eyes.

He didn't explicitly spell out his line of thinking, but that's what we're supposed to deduce. The scenes are there, you just have to connect them.

Jul 29, 2014 9:44 PM

#771

-Karoshi-

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Mar 2012

12938

-Riptide- said:

Forgetfulness said:

I wish

Well shit.

This repeated argument literally takes up half these posts. It'll never end.

Jul 29, 2014 10:02 PM

#772

TastyMmmYum

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Jul 2014

17

Forgetfulness said:

TastyMmmYum said:

Forgetfulness said:
By the way, Takuan_Soho, since it seems from your posts that you aren't aware of how Kirito actually beat the game here is the relevant LN passage that someone in this thread pulled up already

So as you can see, no "patterns" were used. Only collecting and processing information on the spot

Like I said before, this is shown in the anime. We see him running left and right in the mini-game, and then we see the NPC's eyes move left and right to follow him. Afterwards when Sinon points out there there's virtually no delay between when the prediction lines appear and when the shot is taken, Kirito says that he predicted the prediction lines. How? By following the NPC's eyes.

He didn't explicitly spell out his line of thinking, but that's what we're supposed to deduce. The scenes are there, you just have to connect them.

Yes the eyes imply it but it's never actually said. We don't know if it's just a minor detail done to make the scene look more dramatic; I can probably pull up other fights in shounen where they zoom in on someone's eyes even if the eyes themselves aren't that important.
Also, those eye movements are only for general direction; in reality Kirito knew the exact positions from the bullets as shown dodges like the one at 11:40 where he jumps in the MIDDLE of the three bullets. Hence, unless they show the NPC moving his eyes to all three bullet locations beforehand, we don't know how specific the eyes are

And all he said was that he predicted the prediction line. In context, we also don't know if he was actually lying or telling the truth; just previously in the episode he already claimed that he was a girl and specifically said "fantasy games" instead of SAO or ALO. Thus, we can't really trust anything he says in front of Sinon, especially with the face he made while "explaining"/"excusing" his victory

But why does it have to be said? This isn't the LN, it's the anime. We don't have the luxury of hearing Kirito's every thought. We're not told every last detail through his narration. Here, we're shown things, not told them. We're shown him running left and right, we're shown the NPC's eyes following him, and we're shown the dialogue between him and Sinon. The only way it gets clearer is if we can hear Kirito narrate his thoughts to us, and to be honest I'm not a huge fan of tons of narration unless it is required to to reveal an internal struggle or something that can't really be shown. The kind of clarity that you're looking for is more readily found in the LN.

Jul 29, 2014 10:11 PM

#773

TheNeko

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Mar 2014

1249

_Yisus-kun is now a trap, why? Fuck if I know, but he looks so cuteNot
_Now he doesn´t only have girls after his dick, guys are after his dick too the poor bastards
_"Look, I run like a ninja cuase I´m badass. And now I dodge bullet that no one can dodge, cause I´m badass, and laser bullets (faster than the usual bullets) at TEN FUCKING CENTIMETERS ´cause I´m badass"
_"But he has reflexes from SAO" he "dodged" swords, not fucking laser bullets.
_Fuck, now he´s the only one who can ride a buggy? That´s convenient, but of course he can, ´cause he is badass.
_"I used to have a faster pacing, but then I took an arrow on the knee" or in both knees in this case.
_At least he is not a Supah Snipah, that would have made me mad.

Jul 29, 2014 10:26 PM

#774

TastyMmmYum

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Jul 2014

17

Forgetfulness said:

TastyMmmYum said:

Forgetfulness said:

TastyMmmYum said:

Forgetfulness said:
By the way, Takuan_Soho, since it seems from your posts that you aren't aware of how Kirito actually beat the game here is the relevant LN passage that someone in this thread pulled up already

So as you can see, no "patterns" were used. Only collecting and processing information on the spot

Like I said before, this is shown in the anime. We see him running left and right in the mini-game, and then we see the NPC's eyes move left and right to follow him. Afterwards when Sinon points out there there's virtually no delay between when the prediction lines appear and when the shot is taken, Kirito says that he predicted the prediction lines. How? By following the NPC's eyes.

He didn't explicitly spell out his line of thinking, but that's what we're supposed to deduce. The scenes are there, you just have to connect them.

Yes the eyes imply it but it's never actually said. We don't know if it's just a minor detail done to make the scene look more dramatic; I can probably pull up other fights in shounen where they zoom in on someone's eyes even if the eyes themselves aren't that important.
Also, those eye movements are only for general direction; in reality Kirito knew the exact positions from the bullets as shown dodges like the one at 11:40 where he jumps in the MIDDLE of the three bullets. Hence, unless they show the NPC moving his eyes to all three bullet locations beforehand, we don't know how specific the eyes are

And all he said was that he predicted the prediction line. In context, we also don't know if he was actually lying or telling the truth; just previously in the episode he already claimed that he was a girl and specifically said "fantasy games" instead of SAO or ALO. Thus, we can't really trust anything he says in front of Sinon, especially with the face he made while "explaining"/"excusing" his victory

But why does it have to be said? This isn't the LN, it's the anime. We don't have the luxury of hearing Kirito's every thought. We're not told every last detail through his narration. Here, we're shown things, not told them. We're shown him running left and right, we're shown the NPC's eyes following him, and we're shown the dialogue between him and Sinon. The only way it gets clearer is if we can hear Kirito narrate his thoughts to us, and to be honest I'm not a huge fan of tons of narration unless it is required to to reveal an internal struggle or something that can't really be shown. The kind of clarity that you're looking for is more readily found in the LN.

Having Kirito think about it while running would have been the easiest thing ever, explain everything, and not take up any amount of time. I still think game mechanics should be explained at some point given how important they are to the story, just like how the prediction lines from episode 2 were explained in this episode

Those three points don't concretely point to anything; especially, as I mentioned, one of them you should actually be doubting given the context so that actually makes two points

And it seems like the others, you also concede to my point that the anime doesn't have the same clarity that is found in the LN. I guess we're done here as well

But even the prediction lines were explained in dialogue, not internal narration. Boatloads of narration to explain everything you want explained doesn't fit in a visual medium, certainly not an action anime like SAO.

And if by conceding, you mean I recognize that a TV show doesn't cover everything that the LN does, I believe I said that a few posts ago. It's pretty obvious that the written form of any story is going to be the clearest and most in depth, certainly more so than the TV equivalent. If that's all we were discussing in the past couple of posts, then this has been a waste of time. If you expect the LN, then go read the LN. Simple as that.

Jul 29, 2014 10:57 PM

#775

TastyMmmYum

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Jul 2014

17

Forgetfulness said:

But even the prediction lines were explained in dialogue, not internal narration. Boatloads of narration to explain everything you want explained doesn't fit in a visual medium, certainly not an action anime like SAO.

And if by conceding, you mean I recognize that a TV show doesn't cover everything that the LN does, I believe I said that a few posts ago. It's pretty obvious that the written form of any story is going to be the clearest and most in depth, certainly more so than the TV equivalent. If that's all we were discussing in the past couple of posts, then this has been a waste of time. If you expect the LN, then go read the LN. Simple as that.

There was only one thing that was needed to be explained in this episode, and it would have literally took 5 seconds in a scene that wasn't being talked in in the first place...

Well, originally I was questioning someone's claim that you could figure out the same information in the LN from the anime so I guess we can stop here.

I didn't expect the LN, I'm saying the anime doesn't cover the information that the LN does.

Well if the anime covered everything the LN did, it would be the LN now wouldn't it?

What can you do with a TV show that you can't with a book or LN? You can see things happen. So while you're told information through words in the LN, you're shown it through animation in the show (that's why it's a show). They're just swapping out words for animated scenes, that's all. If you can't accept that they can't fit everything that's written in the book into a TV show and need the explicit spelling out, then that's a sign that you shouldn't watch visual adaptations.

Short of telling us directly through narration (which is where we seem to be disagreeing right now), it doesn't get much clearer than a character asking "How did you do it?" and getting a response of "This is how" which references a prior scene that shows how. The issue seems to be whether or not you can understand how without narration, and I think that it's perfectly possible to, but people just don't like not having explicit confirmation. And that loops back to my point that if you need explicit confirmation that much, then you're better off with the LN.

TastyMmmYumJul 29, 2014 11:04 PM

Jul 29, 2014 11:05 PM

#776

Always-Hungry

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Apr 2013

2282

It's already a classic to make a Trap in a MMORPG. I still remember that part in N.H.K. ^_^

Jul 29, 2014 11:56 PM

#777

T3hSource

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May 2014

1387

I'll chime in again and mention what purpose that entire event serves.

The fodder failing, that's OK. Kirito needs money, well here's a convenient way of getting all the money one needs. If game theory was actually applied, Kirito wouldn't be able to even place a bet, because he's fresh new to THIS game. We've never seen Kirito practice to acquire such dodging and reading skills, but that's beside the point, he's a gaming god, again.

So now we get the money, we have the stats, game progression is made irrelevant, and so is game theory. Kirito is set to go up against "pros" who take this game as their job in earning money. A melee dodge build(with pumped strength nonetheless, not agi) in a SHOOTER is extremely hard to pull off successfully, due to the inherent advantage of ranged combat and kiting. Prediction lines would never be in a real shooter, but here they are presented, just so we can believe more so that Kirito is able to dodge because of them. Another plot convenience to glorify our protagonist, who is already overpowered and the most competent at all times, destroying any tension and drama whatsoever, because we know he's safe, and he'll solve it with whatever asspull we're given.

And this right here is why SAO is a trainwreck and always will be, because it forgoes any logical sense outside those scenarios, which were written, animated and directed to glorify our main cast. For someone who likes character struggle, and expects it in any good story, this is unsatisfying.

T3hSourceJul 30, 2014 12:17 AM

Jul 30, 2014 12:35 AM

#778

skullcruncher

Offline

Jul 2014

134

T3hSource said:
I'll chime in again and mention what purpose that entire event serves.

The fodder failing, that's OK. Kirito needs money, well here's a convenient way of getting all the money one needs. If game theory was actually applied, Kirito wouldn't be able to even place a bet, because he's fresh new to THIS game. We've never seen Kirito practice to acquire such dodging and reading skills, but that's beside the point, he's a gaming god, again.

So now we get the money, we have the stats, game progression is made irrelevant, and so is game theory. Kirito is set to go up against "pros" who take this game as their job in earning money. A melee dodge build(with pumped strength nonetheless, not agi) in a SHOOTER is extremely hard to pull off successfully, due to the inherent advantage of ranged combat and kiting. Prediction lines would never be in a real shooter, but here they are presented, just so we can believe more so that Kirito is able to dodge because of them. Another plot convenience to glorify our protagonist, who is already overpowered and the most competent at all times, destroying any tension and drama whatsoever, because we know he's safe, and he'll solve it with whatever asspull we're given.

And this right here is why SAO is a trainwreck and always will be, because it forgoes any logical sense outside those scenarios, which were written, animated and directed to glorify our main cast. For someone who likes character struggle, and expects it in any good story, this is unsatisfying.

SAO a trainwreck?! There's a reason SAO is always #1 in terms of popularity every week on sites like crunchyroll. There's also a reason each episode thread of SAO gets 25+ page forums filled with fans of the show effortlessly each week. Let's also not forget the polls made for each episode. Take a look at them when you have the chance. Then come back and say it's a trainwreck. And before you call the majority of people who love SAO a dumbass think of this, maybe just maybe SAO isn't the trainwreck you think it is. Maybe your judgement is being clouded by what season 1 did wrong. SAO a trainwreck?!!? Hahaha, far from it my friend.

skullcruncherJul 30, 2014 12:46 AM

Jul 30, 2014 1:44 AM

#779

FenixDragon43

Offline

Sep 2010

351

Even as a "girl", Kirito is still awesome. Glad to see they didn't change his gender for this arc.. Wouldn't have been a fan of that.

I know lot's of people hate when the main is OP right off the bat, but I totally dig it. Watching Kirito be better than everyone is awesome.

I really loved SAO, and I love this :-). Not as much, that's for sure but it's still a good series with a good cast.

Jul 30, 2014 3:04 AM

#780

Ahenshihael

Offline

Jul 2007

23708

Forgetfulness said:
]Yes the eyes imply it but it's never actually said.

oh my fucking god

*facepalm*

Whats the basis of good narrative? OH RIGHT - SHOW, NOT TELL.

The most basic of concepts do not have to be spoonfed.

Jul 30, 2014 6:38 AM

#781

Caleb8980

Offline

Feb 2014

422

T3hSource said:
I'll chime in again and mention what purpose that entire event serves.

The fodder failing, that's OK. Kirito needs money, well here's a convenient way of getting all the money one needs. If game theory was actually applied, Kirito wouldn't be able to even place a bet, because he's fresh new to THIS game. We've never seen Kirito practice to acquire such dodging and reading skills, but that's beside the point, he's a gaming god, again.

So now we get the money, we have the stats, game progression is made irrelevant, and so is game theory. Kirito is set to go up against "pros" who take this game as their job in earning money. A melee dodge build(with pumped strength nonetheless, not agi) in a SHOOTER is extremely hard to pull off successfully, due to the inherent advantage of ranged combat and kiting. Prediction lines would never be in a real shooter, but here they are presented, just so we can believe more so that Kirito is able to dodge because of them. Another plot convenience to glorify our protagonist, who is already overpowered and the most competent at all times, destroying any tension and drama whatsoever, because we know he's safe, and he'll solve it with whatever asspull we're given.

And this right here is why SAO is a trainwreck and always will be, because it forgoes any logical sense outside those scenarios, which were written, animated and directed to glorify our main cast. For someone who likes character struggle, and expects it in any good story, this is unsatisfying.

And then what is the deaths of his entire guild, solely because he was selfish, for you? Also he would have been killed by Kuradeel if not for Asuna and in his second duel against Kayaba it was the same.
Against Eugene in ALO he would have lost, too, if he didn't get another sword.
(and I am avoiding here the cases where winning was impossible, like in his first duel against Kayaba, against the Grim Reaper in the Yui SS and against the army in the World Tree in ALO)

Also the prediction lines are used from all people not only from Kirito, heck the cause of the entire problem in the second episode were those prediction lines. ;-)

Jul 30, 2014 7:05 AM

#782

A_Lonely_Jedi

Offline

Mar 2014

609

^Prediction lines = greatest weaknes and/or victory.

"Did you really think I wouldn’t cheat just because I was already winning?" - Dread Emperor Terribilis II

"I chose glory and success. The box did not contain what was written on the lid." - Sand dan Glokta

Jul 30, 2014 7:58 AM

#783

TicklingThoughts

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Jun 2013

1171

neonie said:

TicklingThoughts said:
This is such a great episode! I have too much laugh watching this. Kirito is badass in this episode.

He gets a panic attack when he sees himself as a female character. That moment is priceless. While talking to the random guy, he touches his chest to find if... you know, then he's relieved that he doesn't have it.

Then he meets Sinon and begins to pretend he's a girl in a cutesy way. I was laughing too hard at the Gambling Game NPC'S English. Then Sinon explains the mechanics of the game, and as expected, Kirito challanges the game. The other players think he's a noob player. But all of them, are open-mouthed at Kirito's badass moves while playing the gambling game. Then he wins and gets a lot of money. Then Sinon is amazed at how good he is.

Since he gets some money, he buys the photon sword (we get the "Star Wars" vibe here) because he's obsessed with swords since the SAO game. And Sinon is kinda confused but she praises his skill in sword. That awkward moment when he puts the sword in his back then they both react... Oh and then he also buys 5.7mm FN Five Seven Handgun, as she suggests it.

Then they go to the practice area. Since it's his first time to handle and shoot the gun, of course he misses. Then later on, when they're at outside, Sinon realizes they're going to be late in BoB event. Since he's good in riding the motorcycle, he grabs her hand then they ride on a buggy motorcycle and he drives it. She wonders how he's good in driving it since the motor they're riding is not easy to drive. Kirito, you're really badass dude.

And lastly, is it just me, or I've seen many times the word "paied" (a misspelling) every time he(and the other guy) put his hand on a pad? Who has seen it besides me?

I can't wait for the next episode. And the "Ignite" song is one of my favorite opening songs in anime. I can't stop listening to it. <3

That was... less of a commentary and more of an episode summary :P

It's because I have nothing to say, so I just made an episode summary with my reactions. Well, that's me sometimes. xD

Jul 30, 2014 7:59 AM

#784

TicklingThoughts

Offline

Jun 2013

1171

LastChapter said:

TicklingThoughts said:
And lastly, is it just me, or I've seen many times the word "paied" (a misspelling) every time he(and the other guy) put his hand on a pad? Who has seen it besides me?

Luckily for you, a good majority has noticed it.

Oh, I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed that.

Jul 30, 2014 8:02 AM

#785

TicklingThoughts

Offline

Jun 2013

1171

Rolanddeschain said:

Arkane said:

Ironically, GGO was designed by Americans.

I know that xD

Maybe you need engrish to get into Japan

That's just too hard, lol.
I still love Japan though, forever and always. <3

Jul 30, 2014 8:26 AM

#786

loliowo

Offline

Jan 2011

2839

Pretty swag episode, but congratulation paied oh nein!
I expect munnie throwing next episode.

I almost never read discussions after I made my post, if you want to reply PM me or post on my profile page.

Jul 30, 2014 9:04 AM

#787

T3hSource

Offline

May 2014

1387

Caleb8980 said:
And then what is the deaths of his entire guild, solely because he was selfish, for you?

Weightless tragedy.

Caleb8980 said:
Also he would have been killed by Kuradeel if not for Asuna and in his second duel against Kayaba it was the same.

Both felt like contrivances, first Asuna stalks him all the time then she gives him a second life.... wtf?

Caleb8980 said:
Against Eugene in ALO he would have lost, too, if he didn't get another sword.

Again, being our special, privileged protagonist.

Caleb8980 said:
Also the prediction lines are used from all people not only from Kirito, heck the cause of the entire problem in the second episode were those prediction lines. ;-)

Let's see how the other "pros" use them(they really haven't, Behemoth being the only exception for badass appeal).

I'm OK with this being generally unsatisfying for me, but at least I expect it to be flashy and entertaining.

Jul 30, 2014 10:59 AM

#788

AirStyles

Offline

Jun 2009

6393

Nice episode.

Decent exposition on GGO content, and overall very well drawn world.

Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines.

Jul 30, 2014 1:34 PM

#789

skullcruncher

Offline

Jul 2014

134

Forgetfulness said:

Fai said:

oh my fucking god

*facepalm*

Whats the basis of good narrative? OH RIGHT - SHOW, NOT TELL.

The most basic of concepts do not have to be spoonfed.

No you idiot, that is only if what they show is sufficient enough to conclusively deduce something.

Here, let me break it down for you why a person should not conclude what they should based solely off the anime:
The cowboy moves his eyes left and right when Kirito moves left and right in the lane. However, when Kirito runs in a straight line (such as the very first volley), the cowboys eyes do not move at all. Therefore, what someone who's actually using their brain should conclude is that the eyes only move in the general direction. Now we don't know how specific it is yet
Then, looking at the first volley, Kirito does not run away from the general direction of the volley but rather jumps through it, adjusting his body to fit through the bullets. Therefore, if we assume that Kirito is using skill and not luck, he must know the precise location of the bullets. Meanwhile, the eyes of the cowboy stayed in one spot while three bullets were fired in different directions; therefore again, using your brain and not the LN knowledge that you've already read, you should conclude that the cowboy only looks in the general direction.

Now if you want to get the fuck off your high horse Fai, you might see that using knowledge only from this episode and not from the LN that I know you've already read, the episode actually doesn't show shit.
And you will find plenty of people on this thread that didn't/couldn't piece it together properly, even some of the people who kept defending that the game made sense (which you can see on the last page)

I agree with you. The anime should of definatly explained the concept a bit better. Though to be honest the scene where the cowboy follows kirito with his eyes was enough explanation for me. Though I can understand you wanting a bit more info as a person who has only watch the anime. Keep in mind that I haven't read the LN either.

Jul 30, 2014 1:53 PM

#790

AzuStar

Offline

Mar 2014

2075

T3hSource said:

Caleb8980 said:
And then what is the deaths of his entire guild, solely because he was selfish, for you?

Weightless tragedy.

more like shows the weight of how beater were received and motivated/grew him as a character in the long run. also setting up future events

[quote=T3hSource]

Caleb8980 said:
Also he would have been killed by Kuradeel if not for Asuna and in his second duel against Kayaba it was the same.

Both felt like contrivances, first Asuna stalks him all the time then she gives him a second life.... wtf?[/spoiler]

no, more like Kirito stalked Asuna first,they got know each other, got close, and then their love was motivation for her protecting kirito

T3hSource said:

Caleb8980 said:
Against Eugene in ALO he would have lost, too, if he didn't get another sword.

Again, being our special, privileged protagonist.

which he earned by having the fastest reaction time

T3hSource said:

Caleb8980 said:
Also the prediction lines are used from all people not only from Kirito, heck the cause of the entire problem in the second episode were those prediction lines. ;-)

Let's see how the other "pros" use them(they really haven't, Behemoth being the only exception for badass appeal).

shino also used the prediction lines to jump over mini-gun fire.

T3hSource said:

I'm OK with this being generally unsatisfying for me, but at least I expect it to be flashy and entertaining.

which it hasn't had much of a problem with.

Jul 30, 2014 1:55 PM

#791

AzuStar

Offline

Mar 2014

2075

Forgetfulness said:

Fai said:

oh my fucking god

*facepalm*

Whats the basis of good narrative? OH RIGHT - SHOW, NOT TELL.

The most basic of concepts do not have to be spoonfed.

No you idiot, that is only if what they show is sufficient enough to conclusively deduce something.

Here, let me break it down for you why a person should not conclude what they should based solely off the anime:
The cowboy moves his eyes left and right when Kirito moves left and right in the lane. However, when Kirito runs in a straight line (such as the very first volley), the cowboys eyes do not move at all. Therefore, what someone who's actually using their brain should conclude is that the eyes only move in the general direction. Now we don't know how specific it is yet
Then, looking at the first volley, Kirito does not run away from the general direction of the volley but rather jumps through it, adjusting his body to fit through the bullets. Therefore, if we assume that Kirito is using skill and not luck, he must know the precise location of the bullets. Meanwhile, the eyes of the cowboy stayed in one spot while three bullets were fired in different directions; therefore again, using your brain and not the LN knowledge that you've already read, you should conclude that the cowboy only looks in the general direction.

Now if you want to get the fuck off your high horse Fai, you might see that using knowledge only from this episode and not from the LN that I know you've already read, the episode actually doesn't show shit.
And you will find plenty of people on this thread that didn't/couldn't piece it together properly, even some of the people who kept defending that the game made sense (which you can see on the last page)

you do realize that there were many times where he only dodged the general location of the bullets right? like sliding down and jumping up?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You know what is weird? SAO 2's cover :I

AzuStarJul 30, 2014 2:02 PM

Jul 30, 2014 2:17 PM

#792

AzuStar

Offline

Mar 2014

2075

Forgetfulness said:

AzuStar said:

you do realize that there were many times where he only dodged the general location of the bullets right? like sliding down and jumping up?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You know what is weird? SAO 2's cover :I

That doesn't really refute my argument. Then it's just "Kirito knew the general direction of the bullets, the cowboy also looked in the general direction of the bullets"

Does not prove the "cowboy looked in the precise direction of the bullets" from the LN and hence, we still don't have the same knowledge as the LN readers and my point still stands. Since we know that Kirito used precise locations in his run, the anime did not show the necessary info.

That one instance of him jumping into the volley is enough to show that he knew the exact positions. After that, how the rest of the volleys were dodged became irrelevant

umm, the first time he dodges bullets, he is dodge the direction they all are getting shot at the same time. basically, he is dodging the general direction.

there is only one time when is possibly dodging each bullet is after he already checked the shooter's eyes, so it still stands that he was simply using the shooters eyes.

Jul 30, 2014 3:00 PM

#793

ShinsoPriest

Offline

Oct 2008

6665

Forgetfulness said:

AzuStar said:
umm, the first time he dodges bullets, he is dodge the direction they all are getting shot at the same time. basically, he is dodging the general direction.

there is only one time when is possibly dodging each bullet is after he already checked the shooter's eyes, so it still stands that he was simply using the shooters eyes.

Hm, perhaps I saw that wrong, but there is another instance where he weaves through a volley in 12:00~12:06. I'm pretty sure he is dodging precise locations, not general directions.

From the anime, we can only conclude that the gunmans eyes move in general directions, not precise locations. I'm saying that the anime did not show that the shooter's eyes showed precisely where the bullets would go.

Mm, I guess you could say that he is dodging the bullets. Though it looks more like he dodges before the bullets are shot. Guess you could just chalk it up to the animators wanting to make a cool scene.

965,951,436

"Throughout Heaven and Earth, I alone am the honored one."

Jul 30, 2014 3:01 PM

#794

AzuStar

Offline

Mar 2014

2075

Forgetfulness said:

AzuStar said:
umm, the first time he dodges bullets, he is dodge the direction they all are getting shot at the same time. basically, he is dodging the general direction.

there is only one time when is possibly dodging each bullet is after he already checked the shooter's eyes, so it still stands that he was simply using the shooters eyes.

Watch 12:00~12:06. I'm pretty sure he is dodging precise locations, not general directions.

From the anime, we can only conclude that the gunmans eyes move in general directions, not precise locations. I never stated that he wasn't using the shooter's eyes, but that the anime did not show that the shooter's eyes showed precisely where the bullets would go.

he seems to be moving all around the area though, he is clearing moving left and right. his very possible that he was just dodging the general location the bullets were going in, while using the gunman's eyes.

Jul 30, 2014 3:22 PM

#795

AzuStar

Offline

Mar 2014

2075

Forgetfulness said:

AzuStar said:

he seems to be moving all around the area though, he is clearing moving left and right. his very possible that he was just dodging the general location the bullets were going in, while using the gunman's eyes.

He also ducks a bullet that comes pretty close to his head. I'm almost certain he is dodging precise locations

except he dodges all the bullet's general location, being the mid area. same with when he jump later, when he was dodging the bullets coming for the him (on the lower area/ground)

also, the shooter never shot very close to the ground either, so slide dodging would have been a good choice at that time for secured safety. especially when Kirito was already keeping low to avoid higher shots. (which shows in the gif)

Jul 30, 2014 3:24 PM

#796

T3hSource

Offline

May 2014

1387

AzuStar said:
more like shows the weight of how beater were received and motivated/grew him as a character in the long run. also setting up future events

no, more like Kirito stalked Asuna first,they got know each other, got close, and then their love was motivation for her protecting kirito

which he earned by having the fastest reaction time

shino also used the prediction lines to jump over mini-gun fire.

which it hasn't had much of a problem with.

1. Did it really, because he's still a shrewd lying bastard holding secrets.
2. Doesn't matter how they got together, and again: she came out of nowhere, felt contrived.
3. Well, it wasn't shown, but it's not like you need it for a spraying weapon.
4. Well, where's that EPIC feel. And this episode wasn't what I'd call flashy.

PS: Still arguing over a scene meant for glorifying the protagonist, instead of struggle and proof of skill.

Jul 30, 2014 3:34 PM

#797

AzuStar

Offline

Mar 2014

2075

Forgetfulness said:

AzuStar said:
except he dodges all the bullet's general location, being the mid area. same with when he jump later, when he was dodging the bullets coming for the him (on the lower area/ground)

also, the shooter never shot very close to the ground either, so slide dodging would have been a good choice at that time for secured safety. especially when Kirito was already keeping low to avoid higher shots. (which shows in the gif)

*sigh* I'm not sure why I keep up with this argument

Here's a screenshot from that gif

If you consider a shot that close to be "evading the general direction", especially considering that he is constantly moving left and right in that GIF then I have nothing else to say to you and I'll stop the argument there.

that's one of the shots i was talking about when i said he was keeping low to avoid it. if i recall, he didn't even change his position of that shot (assume its the last one in that scene)

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