| ban malaysia airliner |
| That's why kids shouldn't play with fireworks... Seems like it's biggest disaster caused by retardness. I wonder how is feeling person which pressed the button. Too much vodka. |
 |
| This is really, really sad. The rebels control the area of the crash and that means they will probably find the black box first. This is bad on all levels. EDIT: Recording of a conversation released by the Security Service of Ukraine: |
ZatoichiJul 17, 2014 2:33 PM
| "Every man shall reap what he has sown, from the highest lord to the lowest gutter rat. And some will lose more than the tips off their fingers, I promise you. They have made my kingdom bleed, and I do not forget that" |
| Hmm propaganda? Maybe. It's always Malaysian airlines.... Coincidence? Maybe. |
RandomChampion said: ban malaysia airliner First ever ban I support. |
| ... Saw a crash site video... The dead bodies... They're so messed up some of them look fake... They legit look fake. I urge you guys to not let your curiosity get ahead of you and seek videos and pictures of the crash site out... I sincerely mean it. |
| Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
| Looks and smells like a false flag event to me. |
AirStyles said: ... Saw a crash site video... The dead bodies... They're so messed up some of them look fake... They legit look fake. I urge you guys to not let your curiosity get ahead of you and seek videos and pictures of the crash site out... I sincerely mean it. liveleak one is legit bruh |
 |
| https://twitter.com/spainbuca/status/489813837013848065 Would like a proper translation of this by some Spanish speaker. A Spanish air traffic manager working in Kiev airport apparently reports the plane was approached by two ukrainian military jets before disappearing from radars. https://twitter.com/spainbuca/status/489835522849009664 And this as well. Again, would like a proper translation. edit: browsed the guy's twitter a bit more... doesn't seem fake but rather... biased nonetheless. So I would take it with a grain of salt I guess, although it's still interesting what does he write. |
seishi-samaJul 17, 2014 4:14 PM
| well this sure is starting my day off great |
wow |
masochist-san said: AirStyles said: ... Saw a crash site video... The dead bodies... They're so messed up some of them look fake... They legit look fake. I urge you guys to not let your curiosity get ahead of you and seek videos and pictures of the crash site out... I sincerely mean it. liveleak one is legit bruh I know they're legit, I just never knew a human body can end up looking like that |
| Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
Rakaxo said: So ww3? We won't have WWIII as long as that plane had no Americans aboard. |
 |
Hoppy said: Rakaxo said: So ww3? We won't have WWIII as long as that plane had no Americans aboard. It did have like, 28 of them. |
| ProRussian separatists in possession of black box. They intend to hand if off to Russia... |
 |
seishi-sama said: Hoppy said: We won't have WWIII as long as that plane had no Americans aboard. It did have like, 28 of them. Well fuck, my country is confirmed to collapse economically from fighting another war (and one we have no business fighting at all). |
|
| Just some pointers to summarize the situation: 0. Strelkov (DNR MoD) does not have a social network account. He said that many times in the past. So any reports coming from him on VK, Facebook, or elsewhere have nothing to do with the real Strelkov. The only official source of information on behalf of the rebels is http://icorpus.ru 1. The plane was shot down at 33,000 feet (around 10 km) altitude. 2. Until today the rebels shot down Ukrainian military planes by using MANPADs. 3. The maximum range of a MANPAD (Strela) is around 4 km. 4. The only thing that could shoot down the Malasya plane would be either the mid-range SAM BUK-M1, or a long-range SAM S-300, all of which are in the possession of the Ukrainian military. 5. Yes, about a month ago the rebels reported that they had captured a BUK-M1. However the photos they posted was only of the loading vehicle. To operate BUK-M1 you need 2 additional support vehicles, which provide for navigation and target detection, as well as around 30 trained soldiers who know how to operate it. Without them the BUK-M1 is a useless piece of metal. 6. Along with the movement of Kiev's ATO forces in eastern Ukraine, plenty of Ukrainian BUKs have been put on high alert to repel any Russian aircraft violating Ukraine's airspace. 7. The Ukrainian military has a trackrecord for shooting down civilian aircraft. Back in 2001 they by mistake shot down a Russian airliner killing 70 civilians on board: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...r.html 8. Lastly, I find it unpleasantly convenient for this incident to have occurred around the same time Kiev's forces were forced to retreat as result of being cut off and hammered by Grads on pretty much all fronts. |
| ... |
| I don't know what to believe these days. Conspiracists manage to turn everything into a government conspiracy, but likewise it seems governments tend to alter and omit information to save their own skin. Hopefully when the UN does an international investigation we will learn some things. It's best just to let the professionals do their things. A bunch of nobodies on the internet using potentially false information are not really in a position to be trying to figure this out (especially considering how it is so easy to just spread rumors or create fake "evidence"). Tsundereppoi said: Sums up perfectly what I was saying before; it is incredibly easy to start up rumors and fake evidence on the internet. 0. Strelkov (DNR MoD) does not have a social network account. He said that many times in the past. So any reports coming from him on VK, Facebook, or elsewhere have nothing to do with the real Strelkov. On a different note, I like how Putin comes in and conveniently puts the blame on, wait for it, Russia's enemy. Bias, what bias? |
MinagatachiJul 17, 2014 5:12 PM
| Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
Wasabi said: they better not.. shit will go down if they do.ProRussian separatists in possession of black box. They intend to hand if off to Russia... |
 |
uh said: "A Malaysian airliner reportedly with 295 people on board has crashed in Ukraine near the Russian border, on a flight from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur. Malaysia Airlines said it had lost contact with Flight MH17 from Amsterdam. The last known position was over Ukraine, it said in a tweet. ...A defence expert has told the BBC that shooting down a plane at 10,000m (9.7 miles) would have required a long- range surface-to-air missile - possibly guided by radar. That suggests it is unlikely it could have been downed by a portable air defence missile, or Manpad, which has a much shorter range." Source: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28354856 I don't understand. What reason could anyone have for shooting down a passenger plane? Those poor people. I'm feeling ill looking at my Twitter feed right now because this is just ridiculous. R.I.P. As someone from a Military family of some Russian descent, I would like to clarify some things in the light of this tragedy. Who and why the target was and why all this happened can be for any number of reasons. Targeting systems on advanced military missile hardware belonging to both the USA and the Russian Federation are capable of identifying incoming airplanes as Civilian, Military, and Country of Origin. This is often referred to as IFF, Identify, Friend or Foe. It is possible that the electronic transponder systems in MH17 displayed an incorrect nation code and any of the three possible perpetrators--West or East Ukraine, or Russia--could have fired in haste and in emergency. If no friendly code is detected the defense system in the missile hardware goes into alert mode, and prompts the users to fire immediately upon entering range. This has happened in the past, committed by various nations. Let us remember Flights MH17, KAL007, and IAF655--casualties of war. As well as a Royal Air Force Tornado GR4 & US Navy F/A-18C that were shot down by American Patriot Missile Systems during Operation Iraqi Freedom. As for the two Ukrainian SU-25's that were shot down prior to the incident--Of the SU-25 line, SU-25B (commonly used by the Ukrainian army) are low flying aircraft that portable missile launchers such as Stingers or SA-18 Iglas could have easily pegged, given that the SU-25B lacked anti-missile systems such as jammers or flares. I think perhaps the greatest thing to remember is that this is a tragedy, and I honestly hope that the world stop simply pointing figures and completely and utterly disrespecting those who had fallen and died. Anything can happen in a warzone, particularly when you have a desperate Ukrainian President Poroshenko who is willing to do whatever he can to hold onto his regime. The same can be said of Assad's Authoritarian Syria. Let us pray for the deaths and hope no more come of it. That being said, pilots should plan accordingly and fly around the zone. |
I stand with Freedom, no matter the cost, no matter the price. |
| so a device that is used for defense has.... damn. |
 |
SweetKotomi said: Hoppy said: Well it was in the middle of a warzone, the risk of being shot down is almost certain in a warzone. One of those porta SAMs done pegged it down. Wasn't a jet shot down near that area yesterday? If so, the captain of the Malaysian Plane should have taken a different route to avoid any danger. Well on the one hand, they might have not realized the intensity of the danger they were in and apparently, they were even assured that flying in a height of 10k km would be safe. On the other hand, airlines tend to save so much on fuel that each flight might barely manage it to their destination: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_starvation https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=N9KfR4pGMxc#t=63, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9K-rNRp-9dg Last but not least, it seems still unbelievable that flying over a country in Europe could be as dangerous as flying over a crisis region in the near east. I don't care which side wins at the end of the conflict, however I wish that the conflict will be put to an end as soon as possible. |
NoboruJul 29, 2014 8:20 AM
nucleon said: The core evidence will be the black box and the wreckage itself, supporting evidence would be like videos of the plane falling, eye witnesses, satellite images from different countries, information supplied by the airlines and the ATC before the crash. Military radar & satellites. US said it's shot down: US intelligence found a heat signature from "a massive event" and also had "information from intelligence assets" confirming the use of a surface-to-air missile system - many of the deceased were AIDs researchers, activists and officials on their way to the International AIDs Conference in Melbourne - 80 of the deceased were children RIP It does feel odd, both Ukraine and Malaysia Airlines have been top news recently, now they combined to have another. RIP science |
|
| Pretty sure this was just an accident. The separatists prolly wanted to down an Ukrainian fighter jet and hit the plane instead. Military aircraft have lots of ways to distract and confuse guided missiles, so maybe the plane was just at the wrong place to the wrong time. Or it was a false flag operation by Ukraine to blame it on Russia or the separatists. Though I think that's unlikely. |
| Proud founder of the 20+ virgins club. Please visit my manga blog for manga updates and more! Mup da doo didda po mo muhfuggen bix nood ^ Need someone who can translate this. Pm me pls. |
| Interesting: PM Modi's flight was an hour behind on same route as MH17 Also:  At the time of the flight... there were astoundingly few other planes in flight in Ukraine. (Source: http://www.firstpost.com/world/live-pm-modis-flight-was-an-hour-behind-on-same-route-as-mh17-1623115.html) |
brandisJul 17, 2014 8:24 PM
brandis said: Interesting: PM Modi's flight was an hour behind on same route as MH17 Also:  At the time of the flight... there were astoundingly few other planes in flight in Ukraine. (Source: http://www.firstpost.com/world/live-pm-modis-flight-was-an-hour-behind-on-same-route-as-mh17-1623115.html) Incompetence all around, for the love of God, don't fly into known war zones, plan an alternate route, many pilots and other aviation staff responsible for planning the routes should be fired. |
|
brandis said: Interesting: PM Modi's flight was an hour behind on same route as MH17 Also: At the time of the flight... there were astoundingly few other planes in flight in Ukraine. (Source: http://www.firstpost.com/world/live-pm-modis-flight-was-an-hour-behind-on-same-route-as-mh17-1623115.html) That image was taken AFTER the plane went down. In other words, everyone told their pilots to get the fuck out of Ukraine. I posted it a few posts above yours, but regardless, that image is certainly not from "the time of the flight" |
| RIP :( |
Minagatachi said: On a different note, I like how Putin comes in and conveniently puts the blame on, wait for it, Russia's enemy. Bias, what bias? Ukraine is not an enemy of Russia. Period. Perhaps Ukraine considers Russia an enemy, but we sure don't consider them an enemy. Also, Putin is right to some extent. Even if the plane was in fact downed by the rebels, if Poroshenko didn't break the ceasefire agreement a couple days ago it wouldn't have happened because the rebels wouldn't have any reason to shoot at anything in the first place. In the last few days every plane coming into rebel-controlled zone were military and the rebels don't have the equipment which is able to identify between the military and civilian crafts. And once again, the plane wouldn't have to fly there if it wasn't directed there by the Ukrainian air traffic managers first at Kiev and then at Dnepropetrovsk. Planes aren't flying by random, they're flying by set routes and if a certain route is thought to be unsafe it's a duty of the air traffic manager to direct them to a different route if they didn't do that themselves. As maps posted by other users above show, nobody flies over the Eastern Ukraine. Even the same Malaysian plane (which makes regular flights between Amsterdam and Kuala-Lumpur) took different route in the recent days so they were at least aware of the dangers. But this time it was like they were deliberately sent there. |
seishi-samaJul 18, 2014 12:30 AM
| It is really sad to see something like this happen. No surprise really that everyone involved in this armed conflict is accusing the others about what happened. We will have to wait for concrete proof to see what happened, if experts are let to work on the site, if they recover the black box and also have satellite images then we should probably find out why this tragedy took place. seishi-sama said: As maps posted by other users above show, nobody flies over the Eastern Ukraine. Those were released after the plane crash, all planes were supposed to avoid Ukraine's airspace after this terrible event happened, as stated by those who also put these maps here and as it was told on tv and news sites. Were many commercial planes crossing Ukraine's airspace and more importantly Eastern Ukraine's before this? I have no idea, they did not mention this, they did mention that this was not considered a full blown war zone like Irak was and such, that it was mostly dangerous on ground. seishi-sama said: Ukraine is not an enemy of Russia. Period. Perhaps Ukraine considers Russia an enemy, but we sure don't consider them an enemy. Well, I imagine Ukraine considers Russia their enemy, Russia did have a military intervention in Ukraine just recently. Also, it is really no secret that Russia has been helping the rebels with weapons, if it proves that such a weapon was the cause of this crash this will be turning into something even more serious, especially for Russia. But from what I heard, Russia has been distancing itself lately from the rebels. |
 |
Sourire said: Wasabi said: they better not.. shit will go down if they do.ProRussian separatists in possession of black box. They intend to hand if off to Russia... You should probably stop with your biased assumptions. Russia won't be taking any black boxes, as Russian FM Lavrov just said. It's against international law. OSCE people will be picking them up today or early tomorrow and the investigation will be held by international committee. On the other hand, Ukraine refuses to give them away and claims the investigation should be conducted only by Ukrainian experts. Go figure. |
Zero said: Well, I imagine Ukraine considers Russia their enemy, Russia did have a military intervention in Ukraine just recently. Also, it is really no secret that Russia has been helping the rebels with weapons, if it proves that such a weapon was the cause of this crash this will be turning into something even more serious, especially for Russia. But from what I heard, Russia has been distancing itself lately from the rebels. If that were the case, they wouldn't be having a civil war and campaign of near ethnic cleansing, now would they? There is no proof Russia has been supplying any weaponary, thats a make believe tale, as Kiev and Washington doesn't want to admit all the forces in the East threw down its arms and joined the rebels. Also they have no long range SAM systems, such information is easy to confirm given the signles these things generate is easy to pick up. Though I'm sure if its proven Keiv did it "oops our bad, freedum, murica wez sorry". And that will be that. As to the intervention, out of the last 500 years Only 30 (of those only 15 of which matter) of those was Crimea not part of Russia, 90% of the population was Russian, called themselves Russian, flew Russian flags. As to the Eastern half. That area has always not seen eye to eye. And seperatist sentiments were brewing from 91. They were waiting for word and cause. The Modern Ukrainian State was a marraiged forced at gun point by Stalin, with land in the west taken from other states (namely Poland and Romania, who in turn gained german land), and made worse with Vodka by Krushev. Its no different than the Former Chezchslovikia, or Yugoslavia. And the rebels have already made plans to hand over its boxes, unlike the federalist forces. Who's ranks might I add are bolstered with Neo-nazi drug addicts that as of late have been handeling all heavy weapons as the Ukrainian Army's (unpaid army) Loyality is in doubt. Please feel free to draw your own conclussions on that last statement. |
RedArmyShogunJul 18, 2014 9:08 AM
| Most of the comments on the news websites all say that Britain and Obama planned this out so they could attack Russia. I hate comments on news websites. |
 |
seishi-sama said: Otlichnii Angliskii! My father used to live in Vladivostok and he taught me some Russian, but I have not used it much while in the states. How is Sankt Petersburg weather right now? I visited my grandmother's apartment near the Nevsky Prospekt a couple months ago, the temp was on average 15 degrees...I like it that way, California is too hot. Anyways, the Ukraine Nationalists iterate that separatists got their hands on "Buk" anti-air defense systems, which was left behind by Ukrainian army, I am aware that if you only have the "Buk" defense system and not the targeter/identifier vehicles the Buk system is useless. Damn, if only I could fight...I can only do what I can. |
| I stand with Freedom, no matter the cost, no matter the price. |
| >At least 1 American was on that plane confirmed RIP USA, financially ruined forever by a war we have no business fighting |
|
| R.I.P. The people that lost their lives in this horrific crash. I can't wait to see how bad the news people will make this. Like anything thing else they will make it like its the end of the world. Edit: No wait I was wrong they already made this seem like the end of the world. |
"Lelouch, do you know why snow is white? Snow is white, because it's forgotten what color it's supposed to be."  |
Coolspot said: Most of the comments on the news websites all say that Britain and Obama planned this out so they could attack Russia. I hate comments on news websites. You have to admit all this is rather fishy. |
| This was no accident, somebody chose to shoot down that plane, and considering the height it was flying it would have to be taken out by a missile launcher with a targeting system, there's no excuse. Faulty targeting system is also no excuse, its the owners responsibility to maintain the condition of the weapon. Its most likely the rebels who are the cause, especially when on twitter they bragged about shooting down a military plane, pretty much the same time the airline went down. RIP to the people who lost their lives. |
| Malaysian Airlines sure don't have any luck this year do they... I'm never quite sure how to react when I see stuff like this, it's like too terrible to really grasp |
  |
ElPysCongroo said: This was no accident, somebody chose to shoot down that plane, and considering the height it was flying it would have to be taken out by a missile launcher with a targeting system, there's no excuse. Faulty targeting system is also no excuse, its the owners responsibility to maintain the condition of the weapon. Its most likely the rebels who are the cause, especially when on twitter they bragged about shooting down a military plane, pretty much the same time the airline went down. RIP to the people who lost their lives. Quite the hardliner and close-minded individual, aren't you? I wonder what West Ukrainian news said about the incident to their own citizens: "The plane that was show down was an AN-26, Ukrainian cargo plane just labeled Malaysian Airlines." The UN says it was a Boeing 777. Not an AN-26, is it? The Separatists might be guilty, yes. But few would have the experience and the know-how to operate advanced missile defense systems. Yes, even targeting devices can be faulty. We know this because the US shot down (during Iraq War) two friendly aircraft--a US Navy F/18-A and a British Royal Airforce GR4. 1983, US Patriot Missile Systems abord the USS Vincennes shot down a Iranian Airline Flight #655 (IAF655) 1988, Soviets show down KAL007, Korean Airliner Flight that traveled away from the original flight plan over the Kiril islands (at that time under dispute with Japan on whose islands they really were) and traveled instead over Kamatchka. More likely than not, the same military hardware is present in Russia. And since each airplane has an Identify, Friend or Foe system (IFF) if they wear the wrong tags (or were hacked and thus their tags were replaced with hostile tags, but other people) targeting systems on the missile systems might recognize as hostile and open fire. |
| I stand with Freedom, no matter the cost, no matter the price. |
Jayex said: The Separatists might be guilty, yes. But few would have the experience and the know-how to operate advanced missile defense systems. Then they shouldn't be using one. It would be the same as if I got into a car and drove down the street and killed someone, because I don't know how to drive a car. Someone is responsible whether that be rebels or the army. |
| I like how everyone I know in RL are pointing the blame at Russia and the Rebels simply because the news is reporting that the alleged missile used was that of the Warsaw Pact. Contrary to cheeseburger belief, Western powers also have supplies of such weapons. Yes, someone shot that plane down. The question is, who would benefit from it? and more importantly, who are the best at telling lies and deflecting? |
 |
Duri1n said: xenofire said: I like how everyone I know in RL are pointing the blame at Russia and the Rebels simply because the news is reporting that the alleged missile used was that of the Warsaw Pact. Contrary to cheeseburger belief, Western powers also have supplies of such weapons. Yes, someone shot that plane down. The question is, who would benefit from it? and more importantly, who are the best at telling lies and deflecting? I'm actually of the belief that it was an accident by the Seperatists. While it hasn't been officially confirmed, it seems unlikely that anyone but the Separatists could've done such a thing. However, I don't think it was a terrorist attack. I think they were targetting Ukrainian planes, and it makes sense for them to be doing so, unfortunately, this time, they made a huge blunder... Of course, this is only my theory, but it's what I deem the most plausible. The real question to me is why the route was still left open. I genuinely feel Malaysian Airlines cannot be blamed for flying on a route that was cleared as safe by aviation authorities. In fact, MH17 was not the only airplane above Ukrainian airspace at the time. Both Singapore Airlines and Indian airlines had planes a mere 25 km from the area where MH17 was shot down accordin to flight radar 24. Also, will it be possible for a proper investigation to take place? I think there's too much nonsense going around about who's to blame and who has access to what. It's already tragic enough that so many have died. At least allow the investigators from the internationally recognised and neutral organisations like the OCSE into the site to examine and collect the bodies, never mind the black boxes and other wreckages. The fact that countries like the US and Ukraine are so strongly implying that all blame should go to Russia isn't helping things, imo... not that I'm saying Russia isn't responsible in any way, there's a strong possibility of them being involved, at least in supplying the weapons, but saying they should take full responsibility for the tragedy? That's a bit too much. Even if they did supply those weapons, blaming Russia would be like blamin the gun seller for the crimes his customer committed with the gun... Then again, we don't even know if the missile was shot by pro-Russian rebels. For all we know, it could've been Ukrainian forces... this seems to be a popular conspiracy theory atm. I'm not takin it seriously (yet) but it is a bit hard to believe rebels have far more sophisticated and better trained soldiers than the Ukrainian government. Also, the recording released on the news by Ukrainian intelligence of the supposed leaders finding out they shot down a civilian plane sounds a bit too covenient and a tad fishy... still, it's a CONSPIRACY THEORY... so I'm not gonna dwell on it... just like how others shouldnt be making assumptions so early Sure as hell doesn't help the separatist's cause when they're actively blocking the OCSE from accessing the crash site, and firing off warning shots for whatever reason. |
|
Duri1n said: xenofire said: The real question to me is why the route was still left open. I genuinely feel Malaysian Airlines cannot be blamed for flying on a route that was cleared as safe by aviation authorities. In fact, MH17 was not the only airplane above Ukrainian airspace at the time. Both Singapore Airlines and Indian airlines had planes a mere 25 km from the area where MH17 was shot down accordin to flight radar 24.I like how everyone I know in RL are pointing the blame at Russia and the Rebels simply because the news is reporting that the alleged missile used was that of the Warsaw Pact. Contrary to cheeseburger belief, Western powers also have supplies of such weapons. Yes, someone shot that plane down. The question is, who would benefit from it? and more importantly, who are the best at telling lies and deflecting? You're right about not blaming MH about the crash. MH17’s flight plan was approved by Eurocontrol. It's a normal route for Airlines flying from Europe to Asia. It was considered 'Safe'. |
| "Every man shall reap what he has sown, from the highest lord to the lowest gutter rat. And some will lose more than the tips off their fingers, I promise you. They have made my kingdom bleed, and I do not forget that" |
More topics from this board
Sticky: » The Current Events Board Will Be Closed on Friday JST ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page )Luna - Aug 2, 2021 |
272 |
by traed
»»
Aug 5, 2021 5:56 PM |
|
» Third shot of Sinovac COVID-19 vaccine offers big increase in antibody levels: study ( 1 2 )Desolated - Jul 30, 2021 |
50 |
by Desolated
»»
Aug 5, 2021 3:24 PM |
|
» Western vaccine producers engage in shameless profiteering while poorer countries are supplied mainly by China.Desolated - Aug 5, 2021 |
1 |
by Bourmegar
»»
Aug 5, 2021 3:23 PM |
|
» NLRB officer says Amazon violated US labor lawDesolated - Aug 3, 2021 |
17 |
by kitsune0
»»
Aug 5, 2021 1:41 PM |
|
» China Backs Cuba in Saying US Should Apply Sanctions To ItselfDesolated - Aug 5, 2021 |
10 |
by Desolated
»»
Aug 5, 2021 1:36 PM |