| People enjoy ignorance and comfort in the familiar, it's only when their lives are put under stress that they seek and expect help. I've found that -consequentially- ignorance is the key to happiness. Blind yourself from anything that offends or disturbs you and you will only ever have to think about what you know, that is, happy stuff. Very ignorant -I know- but if I didn't become this way, I probably would have killed myself by now. StopDropAndBowl said: There is no grey area, there is no taking both sides, there is no "I just want the fighting to stop!", there is no discussion. Maybe so, maybe not. But there is existentialism and the realization that this isn't the first time people have been involved in conflict and it definitely won't be the last. Humans are stupid, and the sooner we realize it the sooner we can all kill ourselves and do the world a favor. |
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| 180 killed including 32 children so far. |
RedRoseFring said: Basically: Yes. The territory rightfully became Israel's after they won the war defending themselves in 1967 and later 1973. They gave it up to Hamas and now this hullabaloo is causing a mess. And it's not even a "things will get worse when they leave" situation. It is a "things are much worse currently" situation. Hamas just bombed their own electricity supply in Israel by firing indiscriminately. They just put 70,000 of their own civilians in the dark. Is that stupidity or what? And again, what right do they have? The fact that 1) "Palestinian people" is a fabrication from 1967 to fight Israel 2) They won the land fighting wars for their very existence against enemies that vastly outnumbered them. 3) They had the impetus of the UN, and previous owner of the land. And Israel SHOULD babysit them (which I'm assuming that you refer to the blockade and security measures) because failure to do so will only lead to an inflow of suicide bombers which Israel has for some reason decided they do not want. I can hardly think of any country that wants suicide bombers either for that matter. I DO agree that Israel should stop making settlements in the West Bank, as this is not a completely white and black matter, but when it comes to war, Israel has proven to face it far more logically and rightfully with consideration for both sides of the conflict unlike Hamas. Winning a war doesn't make their presence legitimate. While I don't see the point of contesting Israel's right to exist at this point, I maintain that their presence in the currently occupied territories is illigetimate and so does the international community. As for Hamas, I already said that I don't agree with their methods. I condemn their actions just as much as I do those of Israel and recognize that they're a big part of the problem. The fact remains though that people who give a shit about neither Hamas nor Israel are under occupation, are being deprived of their rights and their lives are put at risk by both parties. 1) "Palestinian people" is a fabrication from 1967 to fight Israel I'm not sure what you mean by this. Could you elaborate? 2) They won the land fighting wars for their very existence against enemies that vastly outnumbered them. We all know how Israel came to be in the first place. All land invaded since 1967 rightfully belongs to Palestinians and denying this is denying Palestinian people the right to their homeland, which is no better than delegitimatising Israel. 3) They had the impetus of the UN, and previous owner of the land. The UN General Assembly, the UN Security Council, the EU, the International Court of Justice and the High Court of Justice in Israel itself consider Israel's presence in the West Bank an act of occupation in violation of international law and human rights. Most of the international community considers Gaza still occupied as well. Pretty much no one backs Israel in this. As for Israel facing the situation with more consideration than Hamas for both parties, I believe the death tolls speak for themselves. The basic fact remains that no peace will be achieved as long as Israel doesn't gtfo from other people's land. I'm not saying this is the only problem, I'm saying that this is the main obstacle to the peace process currently, and it's only natural it is. Though to me, you honestly don't seem to be interested in the peace process all that much and would rather just the situation remains as it is. |
bacchiJul 14, 2014 4:03 PM
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NarTaco said: RedRoseFring said: Killing at random? They send phone calls and warnings ahead of time to inform people that a place is going to be bombed. They then proceed to use a "knock-on-the-door" missile which doesn't cause serious damage as a second warning, before sending the actual missile many minutes later. Yet they didn't send any warning to the kids at the disability centers. Out of all people. There were no kids at the disability centre. It was 2 old women. And they probably did send a warning, cause no terrorists were hiding there and everyone else was evacuated, but 2 old disabled women make good casualties to use for their PR campaigns. |
| "Let Justice Be Done!" My Theme Fight again, fight again for justice! |
TonyTonyStark said: RedRose thinks he understads politics because he watched that episode with Doflaningo's quote... Okay.. No, I just use the common sense that you seem to drop on a whim when it doesn't suit your argument. It's really very useful actually. Let's try this out: If you shoot rockets from behind children, what is most likely to happen a) Nothing, your opponents will sit and take your assault. b) The children will die horribly. Let this Hamas speaker answer for you: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXZEzbT0H1s |
RedRoseFringJul 14, 2014 4:59 PM
| "Let Justice Be Done!" My Theme Fight again, fight again for justice! |
| As childish asthis will sound: Why can't they split the land in half? Why must they beso violent about it? Why are people so greedy |
"Fuck this shit, fun things are fun!" |
bacchi said: Winning a war doesn't make their presence legitimate. While I don't see the point of contesting Israel's right to exist at this point, I maintain that their presence in the currently occupied territories is illigetimate and so does the international community. Which Western nations in the international community regard their presence as illegitimate? I know for sure that the US and Canada rightfully view Hamas as a terrorist organization. And technically, it does legitimize their claim. If Mexico were to suddenly attack the US, and the US beats them halfway down their border, do you think Mexico would have the right to claim that landing after causing the Americans bloodshed to gain it? Of course not. To the victor goes the spoils. As for Hamas, I already said that I don't agree with their methods. I condemn their actions just as much as I do those of Israel and recognize that they're a big part of the problem . The fact remains though that people who give a shit about neither Hamas nor Israel are under occupation, are being deprived of their rights and their lives are put at risk by both parties. And there's the problem. Their actions should be condemned MORE than Israel's, by a lot. Majority of what they do and have done is inexcusable. And Israel's illegitimate settlements are a far cry from trying to intentionally kill women and children. Their lives are put at risk by Hamas far more than Israel. If they truly wanted peace, Hamas would have been outsed in the 2006 elections. I'm not sure what you mean by this. Could you elaborate? "The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct 'Palestinian people' to oppose Zionism for tactical reasons, Jordan, which is a sovereign state with defined borders, cannot raise claims to Haifa and Jaffa. While as a Palestinian, I can undoubtedly demand Haifa, Jaffa, Beer-Sheva and Jerusalem. However, the moment we reclaim our right to all of Palestine, we will not wait even a minute to unite Palestine and Jordan." - P.L.O. leadership, Zahir Muhsein, the leader of the al-Sa'iqa Organization All land invaded since 1967 rightfully belongs to Palestinians and denying this is denying Palestinian people the right to their homeland, which is no better than delegitimatising Israel. What? The Palestinians with Egypt, Syria and Jordan CHOSE to attack Israel in 1967. They got their butts handed to them and Israel beat them as far back as the Sinai Peninsula, Golan Heights and West Bank. You don't go crying "give me back my land" after starting a war of annihilation. If anything, Israel should have kept the land they rightfully won in that conflict. It would have just been too much of a hassle to maintain all of them. Even then they couldn't contain all of the prisoners of war, so they released them to their respective countries. Egypt and Syria instead chose to slaughter majority of their Israeli prisoners of war. Let's not even go into the surprise attack they launched in 1973... The UN General Assembly, the UN Security Council, the EU, the International Court of Justice and the High Court of Justice in Israel itself consider Israel's presence in the West Bank an act of occupation in violation of international law and human rights. Most of the international community considers Gaza still occupied as well. Pretty much no one backs Israel in this. I was of course referring to the 1948 partition which guaranteed a roughly equal split of the land. And where is the UN declaration that Gaza is still occupied? Throughout this entire fiasco, I am yet to hear that mentioned. I guess the Hamas terrorist occupying Gaza are more friendly owners of the land. As for Israel facing the situation with more consideration than Hamas for both parties, I believe the death tolls speak for themselves. Of course. Israel actually spends money to protect its civilians, Hamas spends civilians to protect its rockets. Is it a surprise that the death toll is so high when they encourage stuff like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXZEzbT0H1s The basic fact remains that no peace will be achieved as long as Israel doesn't gtfo from other people's land. I'm not saying this is the only problem, I'm saying that this is the main obstacle to the peace process currently, and it's only natural it is. Though to me, you honestly don't seem to be interested in the peace process all that much and would rather just the situation remains as it is. The basic fact remains that no peace will be achieved as long as Hamas doesn't gtfo from Gaza and stop firing rockets. And also change their charter which calls for Israel's destruction while they're at it. I'm not saying this is the only problem, I'm saying that this is the main obstacle to the peace process currently, and it's only natural it is (Imagine if the US went into peace talsk with Russia with "all Russia must be destroyed" in the Bill of Rights). Though to me, you honestly don't seem to be interested in the peace process all that much and would rather just the situation remains as it is. And not just that, but continue forever. As long as Hamas has rockets, they will just repeat their pathetic ploy over and over again. First 2008/09, then 2012, now 2014. A temporary ceasefire will only give them time to get more rockets. They must be dealt with decisively now or never. |
| "Let Justice Be Done!" My Theme Fight again, fight again for justice! |
Jackrabb1t said: A7MAD111 said: I'll stop mentioning those two particular issues when they stop being a relevant factor in this. Now granted I don't have a horse in this race, but from a purely logical isolated perspective what makes more sense to an American like me: a relatively enlightened and free society or yet another violence-prone Islamic government controlling this region of the world? Such a tough tough question. Actually not.Yes, I do and for the love of God stop using "Oh Arabs don't want homos in their countries and they treat women badly " of this biased BS . The issue here simply acts of terror happening for years and years and all hypocrites of "Human rights" . And you mention human rights, well I'd say both issues fall under that category one way or another. What does homosexuality and the abuse of women has to do with Palestine's situation ? Islam is against women abuse of any kind ,but homosexuality is banned for many and obvious reasons . Of course I don't deny the fact that there is an abuse of women . If this country returns to how it was a mixed religion and race area then it has a higher chance to continue living . People used to live there peacefully and in harmony .You can read this book to understand the situation completely https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/13540289-the-general-s-son I mentioned human rights ,because people are killing and being oppressed ,yet you don't see them act or even do a thing and the whole world is watching it is just shameful . |
StardustNyako said: Because world wars. This is what happens when you leave multiple ethnic groups with no clear borders/sovereignty.As childish asthis will sound: Why can't they split the land in half? Why must they beso violent about it? Why are people so greedy |
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bash107 said: StopDropAndBowl said: [/b]All my stories are cool. And true. It's cool because it's fictional Which part is fictional? The Holocaust? Hamas will tell you that it didn't happen. Or they will say it was a good thing. That every other country on Earth was established by conquest/migration? Find me one that wasn't. Or was it the fact that almost all opposition to Israel comes from anti-Semitic propaganda? Here: In 2010, David Horowitz was at UC San Diego to give a talk countering the "Israeli Apartheid Week" when a Muslim Students Association (MSA) student, Jumanah Imad Albahri, stood up to confront him. After a few words, Horowitz asked her if she would condemn Hamas. Jumanah evaded the question, so Horowitz asked a different question: Horowitz: Okay, I’ll put it to you this way. I am a Jew. The head of Hizbollah has said that he hopes that we will gather in Israel so he doesn’t have to hunt us down globally. For or Against it? Jumanah: For it. ---------- Imam Yusuf al-Qaradawi (a spiritual leader of the Muslim Brotherhood): "Throughout history, Allah has imposed upon the Jews people who would punish them for their corruption ... The last punishment was carried out by Hitler. By means of all the things he did to them – even though they exaggerated this issue – he managed to put them in their place. This was divine punishment for them.... Allah Willing, the next time will be at the hand of the believers. ----------- The founder of Hamas, Mahmoud al-Zamar: "There is no place for you (Jews) among us. And you have no future among the nations of the world. You are headed to annihilation." Fictional, huh? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ByMufgpcdnI |
StopDropAndBowlJul 14, 2014 10:51 PM
| Let's go bowling. |
TonyTonyStark said: Do people not realize that almost every ethnicity in thar region is semitic? Not just the jews? Antisemitism (also spelled anti-semitism or anti-Semitism) is prejudice, hatred of, or discrimination against Jews as a national, ethnic, religious or racial group.[1] A person who holds such positions is called an "antisemite". As Jews are an ethnoreligious group, antisemitism is generally considered a form of racism. While the term's etymology might suggest that antisemitism is directed against all Semitic people, the term was coined in the late 19th century in Germany as a more scientific-sounding term for Judenhass ("Jew-hatred"),[2] and that has been its normal use since then.[3] For the purposes of a 2005 U.S. governmental report, antisemitism was considered "hatred toward Jews—individually and as a group—that can be attributed to the Jewish religion and/or ethnicity."[4] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism |
| Let's go bowling. |
A7MAD111 said: What exactly are you wishing for here?I mentioned human rights ,because people are killing and being oppressed ,yet you don't see them act or even do a thing and the whole world is watching it is just shameful . I can tell you what America's intervention in this situation would look like. Obviously if we stuck our noses in this in an aggressive manner it would end up being an occupation scenario like Iraq or Afghanistan. And likely the violence would continue and would escalate once our forces were out of Gaza. Just what do you want the world to do? Quit throwing around these vague inanities and accusations and just lay it out for me in plain speech. |
RedRoseFring said: Which Western nations in the international community regard their presence as illegitimate? I know for sure that the US and Canada rightfully view Hamas as a terrorist organization. And technically, it does legitimize their claim. If Mexico were to suddenly attack the US, and the US beats them halfway down their border, do you think Mexico would have the right to claim that landing after causing the Americans bloodshed to gain it? Of course not. To the victor goes the spoils. I don't oppose the claim that Hamas is a terrorist organization, but I don't see how that has anything to do with whether or not the presence of Israel in occupied territories is legitimate. Are Hamas being a terrorist organization and the illegitimacy of Israel's control over the homeland of millions of people who reject its presence somehow mutually exclusive? When I say the the international community, I mean the members of the UN, which is the sense commonly attributed to the phrase. Most intergovernmental organizations consider Israel's presence in the occupied territories illegal as I said before - you can look up details if you wish - however, if you want individual instances, here is one. No more than a week ago, Philip Gordon, special assistant to US President and the White House coordinator for the Middle East, blasted Israel over its occupation and questionabe commitment to peace while he was in Tel Aviv: "The United States will always have Israel’s back. That’s why we fight for it every day at the United Nations, where we have worked diligently to ensure Israel is treated fairly and on par with all other states. But as Israel’s greatest defender and closest friend we owe it to you to ask fundamental questions—which in fact many Israelis are asking themselves: how will Israel remain democratic and Jewish if it attempts to govern the millions of Palestinian Arabs who live in the West Bank? How will it have peace if it is unwilling to delineate a border, end the occupations and allow for Palestinian sovereignty, security, and dignity? How will we prevent other states from isolating Israel or supporting Palestinian efforts in international bodies if Israel is not seen as committed to peace?" http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2014/07/08/remarks-prepared-white-house-coordinator-middle-east-north-africa-and-gu And this is coming from the US. A quick read of a few news articles on the issue, both old and recent, will reveal other statements with the same sentiment from Western officials, intergovernmental organizatons and NGOs. You can disagree with the opinion itself if you wish, but Israeli occupation of Palestinian territories is still widely regarded as illegal throughout the world as well as according to international law. And there's the problem. Their actions should be condemned MORE than Israel's, by a lot. Majority of what they do and have done is inexcusable. And Israel's illegitimate settlements are a far cry from trying to intentionally kill women and children. Their lives are put at risk by Hamas far more than Israel. If they truly wanted peace, Hamas would have been outsed in the 2006 elections. Because all Israel ever did is make illegal settlements. Israel's occupation of Palestinian territories deprives the population of fundamental rights. There's also no shortage of dubious Israeli shootings of children and innocents, but hey, that's all either collateral or propaganda. As for Hamas winning the elections, that's easily understandable. The continued Israeli occupation and Fatah's failed approch to end it as well as the corruption in the Palestinian authorities contributed largely to Fatah's loss, Hamas' only viable alternative. Israel's unjustified obstruction of the conduct of the elections also contributed to favouring Hamas. "The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct 'Palestinian people' to oppose Zionism for tactical reasons, Jordan, which is a sovereign state with defined borders, cannot raise claims to Haifa and Jaffa. While as a Palestinian, I can undoubtedly demand Haifa, Jaffa, Beer-Sheva and Jerusalem. However, the moment we reclaim our right to all of Palestine, we will not wait even a minute to unite Palestine and Jordan." - P.L.O. leadership, Zahir Muhsein, the leader of the al-Sa'iqa Organization I don't see how that gives Israel a right to govern them or their territories. You can call them whatever you'd like, it's a group of people with a homeland that's being occupied by a power the presence of which they don't recognise as legitimate. Whether they reunite with another state or have their own is their decision to make. The fact that no other country lays claim to the territories anymore (with the exception of the Golan Heights) doesn't give Israel the right to occupy them against their inhabitants' will. What? The Palestinians with Egypt, Syria and Jordan CHOSE to attack Israel in 1967. They got their butts handed to them and Israel beat them as far back as the Sinai Peninsula, Golan Heights and West Bank. You don't go crying "give me back my land" after starting a war of annihilation. If anything, Israel should have kept the land they rightfully won in that conflict. It would have just been too much of a hassle to maintain all of them. Even then they couldn't contain all of the prisoners of war, so they released them to their respective countries. Egypt and Syria instead chose to slaughter majority of their Israeli prisoners of war. Let's not even go into the surprise attack they launched in 1973... Tensions between Israel and its neighbouring states had been going on for nearly a decade when the war broke out. These tensions were the result of incidents in which both sides undeniably had responsibility (the use of the DMZ, terrorist attacks on Israeli borders, the Samu incident, the conflicts over the Jordan River, etc.). And while the Arabs had been making threats to attack Israel and mobilized military forces along the borders in preparation, Israel was in fact the first to launch a large scale surprise air strike as a "preventive" measure. Furthermore, such a war does not justify an expansion, which is why immediately after the war, the UN Security Council demanded that Israel retreats from occupied territories, a decision that has been reiterated over the decades and is still maintained today, but that remains unapplied. Don't get me wrong though, I'm not defending the Arabs here and I completely agree that some of their acts were inexcusable. I was of course referring to the 1948 partition which guaranteed a roughly equal split of the land. And where is the UN declaration that Gaza is still occupied? Throughout this entire fiasco, I am yet to hear that mentioned. I guess the Hamas terrorist occupying Gaza are more friendly owners of the land. As I said before, there's no point in contesting the legitimacy of Israel's existence (and by extension the 1948 partition) as that simply makes peace impossible. People contesting that need to stop, so I for one don't have an issue with that. As for whether or not Gaza is occupied, in 2012 the UN chief’s spokesman had confirmed that it was still considered occupied territory. He doesn't state the reason explicitly, but it's mostly considered occupation by the UN due to the ongoing land, air and sea blockade on Gaza which impedes the economy and affects the lives of locals, creating an unacceptable humanitarian situation in Gaza despite Israel claiming to have eased the blockade. That was the conclusion of the UNOCHA in a report about the situation in 2011. As far as I'm aware, there hasn't been a change of view on the matter as far as the UN is concerned and it's still regarded as occupation. This claim is disputed though and opinions are largely divided. However, while I concede that Israel does have very legitimate security concerns over the Gaza Strip, absolutely nothing justifies the humanitarian situation that can be improved without posing any additional risks to Israel or even having to completely lift the blockade. The basic fact remains that no peace will be achieved as long as Hamas doesn't gtfo from Gaza and stop firing rockets. And also change their charter which calls for Israel's destruction while they're at it. I'm not saying this is the only problem, I'm saying that this is the main obstacle to the peace process currently, and it's only natural it is (Imagine if the US went into peace talsk with Russia with "all Russia must be destroyed" in the Bill of Rights). Though to me, you honestly don't seem to be interested in the peace process all that much and would rather just the situation remains as it is. And not just that, but continue forever. As long as Hamas has rockets, they will just repeat their pathetic ploy over and over again. First 2008/09, then 2012, now 2014. A temporary ceasefire will only give them time to get more rockets. They must be dealt with decisively now or never. Still, while I recognise the responsibility of Hamas in this mess and that they need to be dealt with, as well as the danger the delegitimisation of Israel poses to peace, you're unwilling to recognise that the Israeli occupation is even a problem and maintain that continued military control should be imposed over a population that doesn't recognise its legitimacy and does not intend to, and I don't believe peace can be achieved like that. My stance is that occupation and repression can never justify terrorism, likewise, terrorism can never justify occupation and repression, nor do terrorist acts by a few invalidate the Palestinian people’s right to self-determination. At this point, I'm no longer interested in pursuing this discussion as it's pretty pointless - and it's probably the case for you, too - so I'll leave it at that. |
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Jackrabb1t said: A7MAD111 said: What exactly are you wishing for here?I mentioned human rights ,because people are killing and being oppressed ,yet you don't see them act or even do a thing and the whole world is watching it is just shameful . I can tell you what America's intervention in this situation would look like. Obviously if we stuck our noses in this in an aggressive manner it would end up being an occupation scenario like Iraq or Afghanistan. And likely the violence would continue and would escalate once our forces were out of Gaza. Just what do you want the world to do? Quit throwing around these vague inanities and accusations and just lay it out for me in plain speech. What inanities and accusations ? And who even mentioned the US ? The "Intervention" was just a cover up for what God knows . The world had enough interventions from the US!! So, you want to tell me that israel is right and Palestine has no right and they deserve to die/leave ? That's how your respond seems to me. The only thing that they can do in the moment is to stop supporting the biggest tyrant ,which if you don't know they have nuclear weapons and oh poor Iran They just shifted the whole situation to Iran and they don't even have nuclear weapon. If this was some European country everyone would jump to help ,but of course it's stupid to even ask the hypocrites for help. It's fine you don't have to recognise the situation ,because your own country is occupying the homeland of Native American Indians I don't blame you . |
bash107 said: I'm an Arab and I don't know what's happening there,but I think this is the scenario Hamas launch rockets at Israel,so Israel strikes back,but very aggressively.Lots of people die in Palestine Lol, who's feeding you this Zionist propaganda? It began with the kidnapping of three Israeli kids, which Israel/the prime minister of Israel automatically blamed Hamas for WITHOUT A SINGLE PROOF. Hamas denied have anything to do with. Through the time Israel was looking for the three kids they were already launching rockets on Gaza and killing people there (although not in the manner they are doing now). After the three kids turned out to be dead, well it got very messy and some settlers kidnapped a Palestinian kid (15 years old) and burned him to death while he was still alive (and this is for sure this time, since they were caught). Hamas began launching their rockets on Israel (not only for this though, but for the fact that Israel has been throwing rocket at them), Israel's prime minister asked Hamas to stop or they will bomb Gaza, Hamas refused. This is a very used tactic by Israel:attack first, once the other party starts attacking, give them the "choice" to stop and attempt to seem like you aren't the one asking for it to begin with and the one who actually started it.. The other party is supposed to shut up and do nothing whenever Israel bombs them, because who doesn't want to live like that, right? It's also good to remember that before all this Gaza was still pretty much a hell of a place to live in, it's basically an open prison (you can probably easily find information to read on this). |
Salxer said: bash107 said: I'm an Arab and I don't know what's happening there,but I think this is the scenario Hamas launch rockets at Israel,so Israel strikes back,but very aggressively.Lots of people die in Palestine Lol, who's feeding you this Zionist propaganda? It began with the kidnapping of three Israeli kids, which Israel/the prime minister of Israel automatically blamed Hamas for WITHOUT A SINGLE PROOF. Hamas denied have anything to do with. Through the time Israel was looking for the three kids they were already launching rockets on Gaza and killing people there (although not in the manner they are doing now). After the three kids turned out to be dead, well it got very messy and some settlers kidnapped a Palestinian kid (15 years old) and burned him to death while he was still alive (and this is for sure this time, since they were caught). Hamas began launching their rockets on Israel (not only for this though, but for the fact that Israel has been throwing rocket at them), Israel's prime minister asked Hamas to stop or they will bomb Gaza, Hamas refused. This is a very used tactic by Israel:attack first, once the other party starts attacking, give them the "choice" to stop and attempt to seem like you aren't the one asking for it to begin with and the one who actually started it.. The other party is supposed to shut up and do nothing whenever Israel bombs them, because who doesn't want to live like that, right? It's also good to remember that before all this Gaza was still pretty much a hell of a place to live in, it's basically an open prison (you can probably easily find information to read on this). Wha.. You really.. I just..can't..How d.. Where did you.. Umm..yeah, sure.. Just.. |
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LogSwapper said: Salxer said: Lol, who's feeding you this Zionist propaganda? It began with the kidnapping of three Israeli kids, which Israel/the prime minister of Israel automatically blamed Hamas for WITHOUT A SINGLE PROOF. Hamas denied have anything to do with. Through the time Israel was looking for the three kids they were already launching rockets on Gaza and killing people there (although not in the manner they are doing now). After the three kids turned out to be dead, well it got very messy and some settlers kidnapped a Palestinian kid (15 years old) and burned him to death while he was still alive (and this is for sure this time, since they were caught). Hamas began launching their rockets on Israel (not only for this though, but for the fact that Israel has been throwing rocket at them), Israel's prime minister asked Hamas to stop or they will bomb Gaza, Hamas refused. This is a very used tactic by Israel:attack first, once the other party starts attacking, give them the "choice" to stop and attempt to seem like you aren't the one asking for it to begin with and the one who actually started it.. The other party is supposed to shut up and do nothing whenever Israel bombs them, because who doesn't want to live like that, right? It's also good to remember that before all this Gaza was still pretty much a hell of a place to live in, it's basically an open prison (you can probably easily find information to read on this). Wha.. You really.. I just..can't..How d.. Where did you.. Umm..yeah, sure.. Just.. You're free to point out what you believe is wrong. |
SalxerJul 15, 2014 8:28 AM
bacchi said: I don't oppose the claim that Hamas is a terrorist organization, but I don't see how that has anything to do with whether or not the presence of Israel in occupied territories is legitimate. Are Hamas being a terrorist organization and the illegitimacy of Israel's control over the homeland of millions of people who reject its presence somehow mutually exclusive? First of all: it is not their homeland. I already showed that with the quote from a Palestinian leader himself. It is a fabrication, and anyone still falling for it needs to do some serious revision of history. Secondly, it has everything to do with it. If Al-Qaeda told you the US was their homeland, would you believe them? In fact, would you believe anything Al-Qaeda told you apart from the number of infidels they have killed? Thirdly, I have already overstated Israel's every right to be there, but it seems the only way to address such issues is to ask direct questions you cannot avoid: If a country attacked you and you beat them back past their border, is it their right to get back that land after killing your soldiers? Would you even listen to such an absurd demand? When I say the the international community, I mean the members of the UN, which is the sense commonly attributed to the phrase. Most intergovernmental organizations consider Israel's presence in the occupied territories illegal as I said before - you can look up details if you wish - however, if you want individual instances, here is one. No more than a week ago, Philip Gordon, special assistant to US President and the White House coordinator for the Middle East, blasted Israel over its occupation and questionabe commitment to peace while he was in Tel Aviv: Again, I am not talking about the West Bank. We are dealing with Gaza here. You do not complain about Montreal or Miquelon when I am speaking of France. I have already AGREED that I do not support Israel's settlement in the West Bank, but what exactly are you saying here? Are you saying it is okay for Hamas to try and kill Israeli women and children because of that? Are you saying that taking a peace of land when there is access to other land for those evicted is equivalent to killing women and children? I sincerely hope not. You can disagree with the opinion itself if you wish, but Israeli occupation of Palestinian territories is still widely regarded as illegal throughout the world as well as according to international law. I have said my piece. Israel giving back Gaza and the West Bank was a peaceful move, yet all they get is flak for it. It would have been better if they kept the land as their right to their victory in war. Of course, that issue is in the past now, and facing forward, Israel should address those settlements. Because all Israel ever did is make illegal settlements. Israel's occupation of Palestinian territories deprives the population of fundamental rights. There's also no shortage of dubious Israeli shootings of children and innocents, but hey, that's all either collateral or propaganda. As for Hamas winning the elections, that's easily understandable. The continued Israeli occupation and Fatah's failed approch to end it as well as the corruption in the Palestinian authorities contributed largely to Fatah's loss, Hamas' only viable alternative. Israel's unjustified obstruction of the conduct of the elections also contributed to favouring Hamas. Again, you do not seem to understand that Gaza and the West Bank are 2 different locations. The Palestinians voting in Gaza have shown that all they want is war, not peace. Those in the West Bank have shown that they are actually considering a peaceful resolution. Occupation is a non-issue for Gaza, so that is a useless excuse for their aggression. If it were the West Bank firing rockets it would be a different matter, but it is unoccupied Gaza doing so. But you're right that it is understandable. They killed those who disagreed with them and drove out Fatah. I don't know anyone in their right mind who would want to give such a people a state of their own. I don't see how that gives Israel a right to govern them or their territories. Then you completely missed the point. There is no "their territories." There is no "their homeland" (which is actually the Arabian Peninsula, but whatever). Their claim to the land is a fabrication. It's like saying I don't have the right to sit in a park bench because you just showed up and named it Bacchi-stan. Don't get me wrong though, I'm not defending the Arabs here and I completely agree that some of their acts were inexcusable. And here is problem #2. It is not that "some of their acts" were inexcusable. It is that MAJORITY of their acts were inexcusable. The closing of the Suez Canal constituted an act of war (just like Gaza's rockets), so amassing an army on their border did give Israel every right to a pre-emptive strike. It's like saying that you shouldn't worry about a bull charging at you until it pierces your body. People contesting that need to stop, so I for one don't have an issue with that. And here is problem #3. YOU don't have an issue with that, but Hamas has a very big issue with that. They can't even say the name Israel without turning rabid. Those kind of people cannot be reasoned with. Peace can never begin until Hamas accepts Israel's existence, and that is the first and MANDATORY step to peace. As for whether or not Gaza is occupied, in 2012 the UN chief’s spokesman had confirmed that it was still considered occupied territory. He doesn't state the reason explicitly, but it's mostly considered occupation by the UN due to the ongoing land, air and sea blockade on Gaza which impedes the economy and affects the lives of locals, creating an unacceptable humanitarian situation in Gaza despite Israel claiming to have eased the blockade. [/quote] That is just plain ridiculous. By that reasoning, Gaza was occupied by BOTH Israel and Egypt, as Egypt has been part of the blockade. We cannot apply double standards with this. It is either we address all the parties or factors involved, or you can keep dancing around the bush for centuries. If Israel is guilty of that, then so is Egypt, so we should be seeing an equal condemnation of both sides, so why is everyone so silent? Still, while I recognise the responsibility of Hamas in this mess and that they need to be dealt with, as well as the danger the delegitimisation of Israel poses to peace, you're unwilling to recognise that the Israeli occupation is even a problem and maintain that continued military control should be imposed over a population that doesn't recognise its legitimacy and does not intend to, and I don't believe peace can be achieved like that. Like I have repeated, I do consider Israel's settlements as part of the problem, but akin to viewing a spoon as part of the problem of obesity. It is the farthest thing from priority to save lives or dealing with the issue. nor do terrorist acts by a few invalidate the Palestinian people’s right to self-determination. That is false. They pretty much do. A murderer loses the right to stay in their home and converse with people when he commits a murder. In the same way, a group of people that cannot interact peacefully with the world lose their right to any statehood upheld by other nations of the world. |
| "Let Justice Be Done!" My Theme Fight again, fight again for justice! |
Salxer said: LogSwapper said: Wha.. You really.. I just..can't..How d.. Where did you.. Umm..yeah, sure.. Just.. You're free to point out what you believe is wrong. Basically everything. |
| "Let Justice Be Done!" My Theme Fight again, fight again for justice! |
RedRoseFring said: Salxer said: You're free to point out what you believe is wrong. Basically everything. Nope. Netanyahu blaming Hamas without a single proof, and Palestinians being killed through the search for the missing kids is a fact. [quote=RedRoseFring] bacchi said: First of all: it is not their homeland. I already showed that with the quote from a Palestinian leader himself. It is a fabrication, and anyone still falling for it needs to do some serious revision of history. Lol, actual evidence for your empty talk would be appreciated. |
SalxerJul 15, 2014 2:19 PM
Salxer said: It began with the kidnapping of three Israeli kids, which Israel/the prime minister of Israel automatically blamed Hamas for WITHOUT A SINGLE PROOF. Hamas denied have anything to do with. lol |
| Let's go bowling. |
StopDropAndBowl said: Salxer said: It began with the kidnapping of three Israeli kids, which Israel/the prime minister of Israel automatically blamed Hamas for WITHOUT A SINGLE PROOF. Hamas denied have anything to do with. lol You can laugh all you want, but this is the facts here, in THIS specific case. You don't know the huge consequences this had that both Israelis and Palestinians are still suffering from though, so no wonder it would make you laugh. BTW Israel's prime minister is also the first one to use the word "revenge" in the Israeli Knesset after the missing teens turned out to be dead, resulting in a huge wave of incitement for Palestinian/arab blood and revenge both online and offline which resulted in the murder of Muhammad Abu Khudair. It's complicated to tell exactly what caused what, but it's clear that not only one party is responsible for how things are right now. |
| It is all about the off shore natural gas that BP have negotiated to withdraw from Gaza with Israel. If you look at the casualty numbers it is obvious this is an act of aggression and not self defense. |
|
ReasonDesu said: If you look at the casualty numbers it is obvious this is an act of aggression and not self defense. By that reasoning, the US was the one that first attacked Japan in WWII since the Japanese suffered more losses. Oh wait.....casualty numbers are only an indication of how many people died which could be due to 1) Incompetence to protect them (actually, Hamas wants them to die. It looks good for the press and they get their 72 virgins anyway. It's even in their charter). 2) The other side's determination to protect its own citizens (Like it says: Israel uses shelters to protect its people. Hamas uses its people to protect its weapons). The casualty numbers are just factual proof of Hamas stupidity. |
| "Let Justice Be Done!" My Theme Fight again, fight again for justice! |
| I don't like any of this....BUT....if Palestine really wants peace, they need to get rid of Hamas. |
Salxer said: StopDropAndBowl said: You can laugh all you want, but this is the facts here, in THIS specific case. You don't know the huge consequences this had that both Israelis and Palestinians are still suffering from though, so no wonder it would make you laugh. I'm not arguing that Hamas denied doing it. I'm laughing at the notion that we should believe them for a second, especially when their denial included praising the killing of the teens and called for more of the same... I know the consequences. I don't know what it's like to have my son ripped from me and brutally murdered by a bunch of terrorist thugs. I doubt many people here do. And I don't know what it's like to have a bunch of Israeli thugs murder my son in retaliation. I can't imagine what either would be like, and quite frankly, I'm grateful that I will almost certainly never have to go through anything like that. But I can laugh when someone starts spitting anti-Semitic propaganda, because I know how utterly absurd it all is. And I know that it only fuels more deaths and more war, and that it doesn't help anyone; and that it hurts the Palestinians most of all. I know that the useful tools who lap up the propaganda because they want to appear to be humanitarians, or want to appear to be fair to both sides... those people are almost worse than the terrorists themselves. The terrorists wouldn't exist without them. Yes, the Israeli PM promised vengeance. What else would you have him do? Should he have looked the grieving mothers in their eyes and lectured them about peace before their son's bodies were even in the ground? Should Israel just allow it's citizens to live in constant fear of attack, rape, murder, and annihilation? Is that the world you want to live in? Because this might be academic for you, but it's a very real threat to them. We're not talking ancient history here. There are Holocaust survivors who are still alive. Genocide isn't something they read about in a fucking history book; they lived it. So when the Arabs, who kill more "Palestinians" than Israel ever has, complain about "overreaction", I tend to start laughing. Those same Arabs will talk about driving Israel into the sea, and speak openly about annihilating the Jews, and they try very hard to follow through with that plan. So who the fuck is overreacting here? |
| Let's go bowling. |
StopDropAndBowl said: Salxer said: You can laugh all you want, but this is the facts here, in THIS specific case. You don't know the huge consequences this had that both Israelis and Palestinians are still suffering from though, so no wonder it would make you laugh. I'm not arguing that Hamas denied doing it. I'm laughing at the notion that we should believe them for a second, especially when their denial included praising the killing of the teens and called for more of the same... I know the consequences. I don't know what it's like to have my son ripped from me and brutally murdered by a bunch of terrorist thugs. I doubt many people here do. And I don't know what it's like to have a bunch of Israeli thugs murder my son in retaliation. I can't imagine what either would be like, and quite frankly, I'm grateful that I will almost certainly never have to go through anything like that. But I can laugh when someone starts spitting anti-Semitic propaganda, because I know how utterly absurd it all is. And I know that it only fuels more deaths and more war, and that it doesn't help anyone; and that it hurts the Palestinians most of all. I know that the useful tools who lap up the propaganda because they want to appear to be humanitarians, or want to appear to be fair to both sides... those people are almost worse than the terrorists themselves. The terrorists wouldn't exist without them. Yes, the Israeli PM promised vengeance. What else would you have him do? Should he have looked the grieving mothers in their eyes and lectured them about peace before their son's bodies were even in the ground? Should Israel just allow it's citizens to live in constant fear of attack, rape, murder, and annihilation? Is that the world you want to live in? Because this might be academic for you, but it's a very real threat to them. We're not talking ancient history here. There are Holocaust survivors who are still alive. Genocide isn't something they read about in a fucking history book; they lived it. So when the Arabs, who kill more "Palestinians" than Israel ever has, complain about "overreaction", I tend to start laughing. Those same Arabs will talk about driving Israel into the sea, and speak openly about annihilating the Jews, and they try very hard to follow through with that plan. So who the fuck is overreacting here? I'm not sure why they would deny it, they have admitted to doing worse in the past, and it's not like they denied it in a nice way. What Netanyahu did was irresponsible, and I can't see it as anything other than that. He knew how resentful and mad the public was and he only made it worse. Even some of the parents of the kids spoke up and tried to calm people down, by saying that killing is wrong on both side, but obviously not everyone agrees with that. Also lol at your terminology: "terrorist thugs" vs "Israeli thugs" because we know being a terrorist is determined by race and/or religion. "in retaliation" because the 15 year old kid was responsible for the murder. I'm not gonna bother replaying to your predictable use of the usual cards, which have nothing to do with the matter at hand as far as I'm concerned. And I'm not sure what's the use of talking about that, many Jewish people also speak openly about annihilating all Palestinians and All arabs (very openly, like going in the streets in hundreds and chanting "death for arabs" while roaming the city looking for arab workers to beat up/ possibly kill if the police wasn't there). |
SalxerJul 16, 2014 4:21 AM
RedRoseFring said: I don't even have the will to point out how stupid this is. You just stay in your little bubble sheepling.ReasonDesu said: If you look at the casualty numbers it is obvious this is an act of aggression and not self defense. By that reasoning, the US was the one that first attacked Japan in WWII since the Japanese suffered more losses. Oh wait.....casualty numbers are only an indication of how many people died which could be due to 1) Incompetence to protect them (actually, Hamas wants them to die. It looks good for the press and they get their 72 virgins anyway. It's even in their charter). 2) The other side's determination to protect its own citizens (Like it says: Israel uses shelters to protect its people. Hamas uses its people to protect its weapons). The casualty numbers are just factual proof of Hamas stupidity. |
|
ReasonDesu said: RedRoseFring said: I don't even have the will to point out how stupid this is. You just stay in your little bubble sheepling.By that reasoning, the US was the one that first attacked Japan in WWII since the Japanese suffered more losses. Oh wait.....casualty numbers are only an indication of how many people died which could be due to 1) Incompetence to protect them (actually, Hamas wants them to die. It looks good for the press and they get their 72 virgins anyway. It's even in their charter). 2) The other side's determination to protect its own citizens (Like it says: Israel uses shelters to protect its people. Hamas uses its people to protect its weapons). The casualty numbers are just factual proof of Hamas stupidity. No. You just don't have the intelligence to understand how reasonable that is. Don't confuse the 2 situations. |
| "Let Justice Be Done!" My Theme Fight again, fight again for justice! |
Salxer said: Actually, what Netanyahu did was very responsible. Compassion is nice, but it should never cloud pragmatic judgement. Feel sorry for the enemy, but don't lie down and let yourself be slaughtered. If there was no response from the Israeli government, what would have happened? You think the killers would think: "Oh, we got away with 3. I guess we should stop now. It's not killing Israelis is all we live for." They encouraged more of the same to be done, so unless they learn that it is not in their best interest to perpetrate such acts, they would just continue ad infinitum. Also, a ceasefire will not help the future. This isn't the first time this has happened. 2008 and 2012 and now 2014. This is becoming a regular cycle, and the only way to stop a cycle is to break it. Hamas must be put down once and for all, because if they manage to escape with a ceasefire like they have done in the past, they will just get more rockets and continue this in another 2 years. Then we will have 2016, 2019, 2021, and so on. A lot of Palestinians have died and will die, but if we let the cycle continue, those same numbers will arrive again in later years. Add those up together and it is just suffering continued on a large scale. End it now so that future generations will not have to suffer Hamas stupidity. And you have pointed out a fundamental difference between the 2 sides here that you are not even able to see for yourself. Israelis are the ones who STOP those crying out "Death to Arabs". Hamas encourages those who cry out "Death to Israel". The difference and problem is so stark and evident, the solution must be as well. |
| "Let Justice Be Done!" My Theme Fight again, fight again for justice! |
RedRoseFring said: Israelis are the ones who STOP those crying out "Death to Arabs". Hamas encourages those who cry out "Death to Israel". The difference and problem is so stark and evident, the solution must be as well. That's the usual classification in categories. As someone who has been- due to work - in Tel Aviv for a few months and met also people of different 'social-grades' I can tell you that a lot of Israelis have a natural repulsion against Palestinians. That doesn't count for everyone, but the historical events of the last 50/60 years leave their marks. Those incidents also have resulted into the founding of the 'Kach-Movement'. The Kach movement is one of the most militant anti-Arabian groups in Israel. Their spiritual father, the rabbi Meir Kahane, had put to himself by foundation of the movement in 1971 the expulsion of all Palestinians from Israel and the occupied areas. On the territory a Jewish God's state should be established. However, that's one side. On the other hand you are also right. A lot of people in Israel are willing to do anything for peace. They are even established peace-organisations. According to them, it would be the best to give back a part of the land which was taken away from Palastine. However, the government is strictly against it. Actually, the dispute between Israel and Palestine base (mainly) on the events of 1918. In my opinion the separation into an jewish- and arabic-part was simple caprice not only to create the new state which is known as Israel, but to restrict the political and economic influence of the Arabian states. The last part is pretty interesting though, because it didn't end well for our western countries at some time. The oil embargo in 1973 was used as a warning to stop the support of the western countries for Israel. However, It's my belief that whole situation isn't a one-sided thing to begin with. |
Jet_Nice_GuyJul 16, 2014 9:16 AM
Behemoth11 said: RedRoseFring said: Israelis are the ones who STOP those crying out "Death to Arabs". Hamas encourages those who cry out "Death to Israel". The difference and problem is so stark and evident, the solution must be as well. That's the usual classification in categories. As someone who has been- due to work - in Tel Aviv for a few months and met also people of different 'social-grades' I can tell you that a lot of Israelis have a natural repulsion against Palestinians. That doesn't count for everyone, but the historical events of the last 50/60 years leave their marks. Those incidents also have resulted into the founding of the 'Kach-Movement'. The Kach movement is one of the most militant anti-Arabian groups in Israel. Their spiritual father, the rabbi Meir Kahane, had put to himself by foundation of the movement in 1971 the expulsion of all Palestinians from Israel and the occupied areas. On the territory a Jewish God's state should be established. However, that's one side. On the other hand you are also right. A lot of people in Israel are willing to do anything for peace. They are even established peace-organisations. According to them, it would be the best to give back a part of the land which was taken away from Palastine. However, the government is strictly against it. Actually, the dispute between Israel and Palestine base (mainly) on the events of 1918. In my opinion the separation into an jewish- and arabic-part was simple caprice not only to create the new state which is known as Israel, but to restrict the political and economic influence of the Arabian states. The last part is pretty interesting though, because it didn't end well for our western countries at some time. The oil embargo in 1973 was used as a warning to stop the support of the western countries for Israel. However, It's my belief that whole situation isn't a one-sided thing to begin with. You just kind of emphasised my point. There are those in Israel who have let their resentment build, but the government does not support them. Heck, even now Netanyahu is fighting those in his party who simply want him to invade and reoccupy Gaza. And giving back part of the land is the last thing Israel would think of doing now. That's what they did in 2005 with Gaza, and here we are now. Someone else phrased it quite well, and I will repeat here: "You can give the Palestinians land as big as the Solar System, but they won't be satisfied until there is no state of Israel." People really need to read Hamas' charter. The West Bank though it has its problems is still doing fairly well, and Abbas (though his influence is limited) took a good step in recognizing Israel's right to existence. The people of Gaza need to follow suit if they want peace. Of course, this problem will not be changed overnight, and a period of at least 5 years is what I forsee for any lasting peace negotiations. Simply put, this is the 3rd time Hamas is doing this, so to ease the blockade they'll have to prove that they can go for that period of time without attacking Israel and instead help the people of Gaza to establish at least a fledgling economy. |
| "Let Justice Be Done!" My Theme Fight again, fight again for justice! |
Salxer said: Also lol at your terminology: "terrorist thugs" vs "Israeli thugs" because we know being a terrorist is determined by race and/or religion. No, it's just that not all thugs are terrorists. Hamas is a terrorist organization, hence their thugs are terrorists. That doesn't mean the Israeli murderer is any better, just that they are not definable as "terrorists". I'm not gonna bother replaying to your predictable use of the usual cards, which have nothing to do with the matter at hand as far as I'm concerned. That you don't see the connection speaks volumes about your position here. Anyone who is without the ability to understand cause and effect is doomed to see reality as snapshots and not how it is, a continuum of consequences. The result of this is people like you, uninformed and incapable of understanding even the most basic events. And I'm not sure what's the use of talking about that, many Jewish people also speak openly about annihilating all Palestinians and All arabs And when in history was any such genocide carried out? And when has Israel as a state ever pursued such a policy? And where in Israel's constitution is such a genocide called for and promised? I can find a member of any political group who says racist things, but that doesn't make every political group the equivalent of the Nazi's. Likewise, you can find many Israeli's who do terrible things, or advocate terrible things; but that does not make Israel the equivalent of Hamas. |
| Let's go bowling. |
StopDropAndBowl said: I'm not gonna bother replaying to your predictable use of the usual cards, which have nothing to do with the matter at hand as far as I'm concerned. That you don't see the connection speaks volumes about your position here. Anyone who is without the ability to understand cause and effect is doomed to see reality as snapshots and not how it is, a continuum of consequences. The result of this is people like you, uninformed and incapable of understanding even the most basic events. Nope, it's just shitty excuses made by shitty people. |
| Israel about to make itself hated worldwide if this wasn't the case already http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/17/world/meast/mideast-crisis/index.html |
 |
| yeah i care and lots of people do i'm a muslim and i care but it's not only a muslim case it's a humanity case !!!!! people are killed thwew children become orphans due to what happen now people lose their famillies people die people get injured people cry and cry and resist and fight so yeah i fucking care it breaks my heart everytime i see pictures of very small children crying their hearts out next to a xorpse of someone loved or an old man who lost his family !!! those are not jews those are zionist terrorist !!! |
 |
Ame-Drop said: yeah i care and lots of people do i'm a muslim and i care but it's not only a muslim case it's a humanity case !!!!! people are killed thwew children become orphans due to what happen now people lose their famillies people die people get injured people cry and cry and resist and fight so yeah i fucking care it breaks my heart everytime i see pictures of very small children crying their hearts out next to a xorpse of someone loved or an old man who lost his family !!! those are not jews those are zionist terrorist !!! You see, the problem with that is that it disregards some of the fundamental rational points of such a situation. It is good to be compassionate, but don't let that cloud your judgement. The awful truth is that a lot of the Palestinians' problems are self-inflicted (and I'm not even talking about the rockets that misfire and kill their own people), but many people living in comfort get bamboozled by it and forget to address it rationally, thereby falling into the eager hands of those willing to take advantage of them. Simply put: be compassionate, but be strict. Handling the situation while trying to please everyone is going to get you nowhere. It also depends on your goal in the situation. If your primary concern is the death of children, the solution to that is simple: Hamas should stop firing rockets. If you are thinking more long-term for peace and stability of the people, then it gets a bit more complicated and harsher truths will have to be faced. |
| "Let Justice Be Done!" My Theme Fight again, fight again for justice! |
| Attempted murder is attempted murder, and begets retribution. You poke someone twice your size with a stick, don't flip shit when he eventually punches you in the face. |
| i do ._. |
RedRoseFring said: Ame-Drop said: yeah i care and lots of people do i'm a muslim and i care but it's not only a muslim case it's a humanity case !!!!! people are killed thwew children become orphans due to what happen now people lose their famillies people die people get injured people cry and cry and resist and fight so yeah i fucking care it breaks my heart everytime i see pictures of very small children crying their hearts out next to a xorpse of someone loved or an old man who lost his family !!! those are not jews those are zionist terrorist !!! You see, the problem with that is that it disregards some of the fundamental rational points of such a situation. It is good to be compassionate, but don't let that cloud your judgement. The awful truth is that a lot of the Palestinians' problems are self-inflicted (and I'm not even talking about the rockets that misfire and kill their own people), but many people living in comfort get bamboozled by it and forget to address it rationally, thereby falling into the eager hands of those willing to take advantage of them. Simply put: be compassionate, but be strict. Handling the situation while trying to please everyone is going to get you nowhere. It also depends on your goal in the situation. If your primary concern is the death of children, the solution to that is simple: Hamas should stop firing rockets. If you are thinking more long-term for peace and stability of the people, then it gets a bit more complicated and harsher truths will have to be faced. i agree with you hamas isn't helping at all and the victims are the women and children and the old people .. hamas is wrong but still does that justify what isreal is doing ?? they say they are defending themselves but is it really defending or just finding a reason to kill ?!!! |
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| what hurt most is that it's Ramadan .. muslims all over the world are extremely happy but the gazans are fighting to live .. |
|
| .. beside that .. it's all about politics .. all wars are a matter of politic shit .. 500 years ago or let's say 200 were there even a place called isreal !! |
|
Ame-Drop said: RedRoseFring said: You see, the problem with that is that it disregards some of the fundamental rational points of such a situation. It is good to be compassionate, but don't let that cloud your judgement. The awful truth is that a lot of the Palestinians' problems are self-inflicted (and I'm not even talking about the rockets that misfire and kill their own people), but many people living in comfort get bamboozled by it and forget to address it rationally, thereby falling into the eager hands of those willing to take advantage of them. Simply put: be compassionate, but be strict. Handling the situation while trying to please everyone is going to get you nowhere. It also depends on your goal in the situation. If your primary concern is the death of children, the solution to that is simple: Hamas should stop firing rockets. If you are thinking more long-term for peace and stability of the people, then it gets a bit more complicated and harsher truths will have to be faced. i agree with you hamas isn't helping at all and the victims are the women and children and the old people .. hamas is wrong but still does that justify what isreal is doing ?? they say they are defending themselves but is it really defending or just finding a reason to kill ?!!! Why not both? I'm pretty sure some politicians in Israel are taking this situation as an opportunity to attack the Palestinians, but there will always be just as many who simply want to protect their own children and families, no matter the cause. From the outlook of things, I do believe Israel is justified in this situation. Everyone can debate around the bush forever, but the truth remains that the solution to stop the killing is simple: Hamas should stop firing rockets. We can deal with whatever injustices have been done after that. |
| "Let Justice Be Done!" My Theme Fight again, fight again for justice! |
| The Palestine conflict as an analogy: |
| Proud founder of the 20+ virgins club. Please visit my manga blog for manga updates and more! Mup da doo didda po mo muhfuggen bix nood ^ Need someone who can translate this. Pm me pls. |
Shiratori99 said: Aren't analogies supposed to simplify things? I got lost somewhere in paragraph 2...The Palestine conflict as an analogy: (though I get the point you are trying to make) |
Jackrabb1t said: Shiratori99 said: Aren't analogies supposed to simplify things? I got lost somewhere in paragraph 2...The Palestine conflict as an analogy: (though I get the point you are trying to make) You could simplify it as "foreigner seizes control of your house and kicks you out", but that wouldn't do the historical facts justice. I suppose you're right though. |
| Proud founder of the 20+ virgins club. Please visit my manga blog for manga updates and more! Mup da doo didda po mo muhfuggen bix nood ^ Need someone who can translate this. Pm me pls. |
| I guess Israel is also justified in using internationally banned weapons.. Ame-Drop said: yeah i care and lots of people do i'm a muslim and i care but it's not only a muslim case it's a humanity case !!!!! people are killed thwew children become orphans due to what happen now people lose their famillies people die people get injured people cry and cry and resist and fight so yeah i fucking care it breaks my heart everytime i see pictures of very small children crying their hearts out next to a xorpse of someone loved or an old man who lost his family !!! those are not jews those are zionist terrorist !!! Didn't you know? if civilians didn't want to be killed they should stop living in civilian areas. #Israel |
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Salxer said: I guess Israel is also justified in using internationally banned weapons.. Like? Examples please. Didn't you know? if civilians didn't want to be killed they should stop living in civilian areas. #Israel No. If civilians do not want to be killed, they should: 1) Not elect a ruling party that will only bring death upon them. 2) Not antagonize a strong power that will not stay silent. 3) Allow people to store rockets in their house. 4) Not teach each other and their children that it is good to die as long as it is for "the cause." 5) Not go playing around in the middle of a war. |
| "Let Justice Be Done!" My Theme Fight again, fight again for justice! |
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