Puella Magi Madoka Magica
| I only used horrible/evil because that's how I felt she is being described in the discussion currently. Anyway, I understand the WHY behind her actions, but I think the actions themselves are still "horrible." Think of it like someone not agreeing with Kira's/Lelouch's "the end justifies the means" methods. I probably made it worse now. |
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Botato said: Well that escalated quickly XD.Think of it like someone not agreeing with Kira's/Lelouch's "the end justifies the means" methods. I probably made it worse now. Accelerator would be a better example. |
ssjokg said: I'll keep that in mind for when I start reading/watching Index.Botato said: Well that escalated quickly XD.Think of it like someone not agreeing with Kira's/Lelouch's "the end justifies the means" methods. I probably made it worse now. Accelerator would be a better example. |
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| 1)The vast majority thinks otherwise.And while you could call it rushed, it in no way was inconsistent.Preferences aside, the characters are really relatable, if that is what you mean. 2)Thats totally random slander for anime fans stereotypes.You dont need Hidamari drawings to attract "perverse otakus".NGE "did it" fine with normal animation.That the char designs are "moe" has nothing to do with the story and that alone doesnt guarantee success just like MOST moe shows out there.No comment about the yuri.It isnt the first or last show to have yuri,which sales wise doesnt really sell, so saying that the did in on purpose in order TO SELL is stupid. 3)Talking about tastes.Urobuchi will either be criticized for overly tragic stories or for writing bittersweet endings.Anime fans are TOO bipolar. Nice, so you dont like the main story and the sequel will definitely be fanfiction for no real reason. I have MANY issues with NGE and EoE(and 3.0) but I would never call them fanfiction just because they dont suit my tastes. |
| The problem I had with this show was mostly that I didn't like any of the characters specifically Madoka. I'll give it credit for the deconstruction aspect of it, but there wasn't much shock value because the only reason I watched this show was "omg magic gurls dye a lot". With the combination of the short run time and unlikable characters, I really didn't care what happened to them. |
Botato said: ssjokg said: I'll keep that in mind for when I start reading/watching Index.Well that escalated quickly XD. Accelerator would be a better example. Read Index(34+ volumes huehue) and Railgun and watch Railgun S 2-16eps. Now if you have time to waste just to see some Index scenes animated watch Index as well. |
ssjokg said: ... ._.Botato said: I'll keep that in mind for when I start reading/watching Index. Read Index(34+ volumes huehue) and Railgun and watch Railgun S 2-16eps. Now if you have time to waste just to see some Index scenes animated watch Index as well. Well shit. |
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RLinksoul said: Lauriet said: Homura is an emotionally abusive stalker with time traveling powers. If you all can hate Sayaka and completely misconstrue her character while calling Homura OF ALL FUCKING CHARACTERS "selfless", you're incapable of being reasoned with. It's always funny when people hate on Sayaka because her wish revolving around a boy, but then praise Homura for doing the exact same thing, but with a girl. Sayaka is an insecure but fairly well-adjusted character whose CHILDHOOD FRIEND was in an accident and can no longer work on his art, his passion. Homura? She's an insecure, near-suicidal mess for no established reason. We know nothing about her past, present or future. She met Madoka and a month later made the wish that caused her entire life to be dedicated to this girl who said Homura had a cool name. Homura has no character. Take away Madoka and you have no Homura. But what really bugs me is whenever someone talks about how unlikable, cold and demeaning Homura is, and the response is always "Durr have you seen episode 10? There's a reason she acts that way!" Those last four words. "She. Acts. That. Way." They admit it, but apparently, because a character has a glorified sob-story of a past, that gives them a free pass to act like a total prick. She can call Madoka a complete idiot, she can try to kill Sayaka, she can insult people right after they've witnessed the death of a friend, and you're not allowed to find fault with this because she's oh so tragic! The whole anime is a glorified sob-story. |
TianCheng said: RLinksoul said: It's always funny when people hate on Sayaka because her wish revolving around a boy, but then praise Homura for doing the exact same thing, but with a girl. Sayaka is an insecure but fairly well-adjusted character whose CHILDHOOD FRIEND was in an accident and can no longer work on his art, his passion. Homura? She's an insecure, near-suicidal mess for no established reason. We know nothing about her past, present or future. She met Madoka and a month later made the wish that caused her entire life to be dedicated to this girl who said Homura had a cool name. Homura has no character. Take away Madoka and you have no Homura. But what really bugs me is whenever someone talks about how unlikable, cold and demeaning Homura is, and the response is always "Durr have you seen episode 10? There's a reason she acts that way!" Those last four words. "She. Acts. That. Way." They admit it, but apparently, because a character has a glorified sob-story of a past, that gives them a free pass to act like a total prick. She can call Madoka a complete idiot, she can try to kill Sayaka, she can insult people right after they've witnessed the death of a friend, and you're not allowed to find fault with this because she's oh so tragic! The whole anime is a glorified sob-story. Gee what a well thought out post. |
| Ok, point by point. Obviously, spoiler alert. Sayaka: Oh, the boy you like is talking to another girl? Oh gee, that's too bad, if only people invented a tool that you can use to convert your thoughts into sounds, that you could use to present those thoughts of yours to another human being. Maybe we could call that tool 'language'. Kyouko: Oh man, I'm totally gonna go and die for a person I wanted to kill 3 days ago. Homura: I have this totally awesome spell that I can use to rewind time, which I'm using to try and make my best friend not become a MG/witch. If only I could use it to, I don't know, erase all the triggers that might eventually lead to that, like, I don't know, ALL OF HER FRIENDS DYING BEFORE HER VERY EYES. Nah, I'll just use it after I totally fuck up everything every time. Mami: Not much here, probably the best character, if only because she didn't get much screen time. Oh, I've got one. Your friends found out that your body is just a shell, and your real soul is in the Soul Gem, which means that you can regenerate your whole body at will. Damn, if only someone realized that could use that information to bring you back from the 'dead'. What's that? Oh, your Soul Gem fuses with your body when you transform? Well, what's the fucking point of that separation then, other than to needlessly dramatize the story, and fuck up Sayaka's psyche? Madoka: Absolutely disgusting. I've spend 12 episodes watching her just whine all the time and be generally useless all around, just to watch her fuck up her one chance she got to make it right. Any sane human being in that position would wish for witches never to have existed, which would not only achieve the same effect it did as in the anime (like replacing witches with those magical whatstheirnames), but would basically bring all of her friends back from the dead, since they've all died in an encounter with a witch. Basically, all the characters are written unlike normal human beings, just for the sake of being a tear-jerker, but it was so glaringly obvious, that I could do nothing else but stare at the screen cringing all the time. |
| Sayaka:Her problem was that she is not a normal human anymore,how is talking going to fix that? Kyoko:Yes,that was her character arc. Homura:That excatly what she was trying to do the whole time. Mami:I have no idea what the hell you are talking about. Madoka:That excatly what she did,or do you care some much about the wording? The result would have been the same either way. The universe is still rewriten and she still becomes a god. |
Boddy23Jul 22, 2014 9:23 PM
| Point by point you just proved my point in post #35 and that your ability to pay attention or to analyze context is non existent. Not Madoka Magica's or Gen's fault. |
ssjokgJul 22, 2014 10:56 PM
Szadek23 said: Sayaka:Her problem was that she is not a normal human anymore,how is talking going to fix that? Kyoko:Yes,that was her character arc. Homura:That excatly what she was trying to do the whole time. Mami:I have no idea what the hell you are talking about. Madoka:That excatly what she did,or do you care some much about the wording? The result would have been the same either way. The universe is still rewriten and she still becomes a god. Sayaka: Because talking about your problems makes it easier to bear them? Instead, she chose the coward way out, never opened up to him (she could've even demonstrated it to him to make him believe all of that) and basically committed suicide. Kyouko: That doesn't explain anything. Like, I could make up a character that is a female in and episode and a male in the next one, and say "that's just the character's arc". Doesn't excuse the bad writing. Homura: No, she didn't. Instead of erasing the "triggers" individually (something like, whoops, Mami died, better rewind and save her ass, whoops Sayaka died, better rewind and save her too, etc), she chose to watch it all unfold and lets Madoka come to the tipping point, when she could've prevented it all. Mami: Why do you mention it then if you don't understand it? Madoka: No, the result wouldn't be the same. She wouldn't become a martyr that has to kill every witch in existence at the same time (because they wouldn't exist in the first place), which would mean there's no need for her to disappear from this timeline, and also all her friends would be alive. Huge difference. |
ssjokg said: Point by point you just proved my point in post #35 and that your ability to pay attention or to analyze context is non existent. Not Madoka Magica's or Gen's fault. I see. So what you're trying to say is that you have no arguments to counter-act my points and you're gonna use some lame ad hominem to defend yourself? Perfectly reasonable. |
| Sayaka:Yeah telling him that she is a zombie is a great idea and he as well as other people will definitely be ok with that. Kyouko:Did you even realize her character,how Sayaka was similar to her old self, or why she even attacked them at first? Homura:YEah except from the fact that their deaths isnt the only trigger/problem among other things. Mami:This in nipticking.Having a gem STUCK to them in daily life would be great and it would definitely not attract attention. Madoka:And then many magical girls like Mami would die because they werent able to make a contract. Oh yeah and the world would still be stuck in the Stone Age TianCheng said: I have plenty but there is no point to use those arguments or use anything more than one liners, for people that cant pay attention.ssjokg said: Point by point you just proved my point in post #35 and that your ability to pay attention or to analyze context is non existent. Not Madoka Magica's or Gen's fault. I see. So what you're trying to say is that you have no arguments to counter-act my points and you're gonna use some lame ad hominem to defend yourself? Perfectly reasonable. |
ssjokgJul 22, 2014 11:27 PM
ssjokg said: TianCheng said: I have plenty but there is no point to use those arguments or use anything more than one liners, for people that cant pay attention.I see. So what you're trying to say is that you have no arguments to counter-act my points and you're gonna use some lame ad hominem to defend yourself? Perfectly reasonable. Nice dodge, again. Your "arguments" make no sense whatsoever. Again, point by point: 1. Because someone ever tried to? Oh yeah, Kyouko did. And that ended badly not because of her being a MG, but because her father was too proud to receive help. So, no proof for your conclusion. 2. No, because they aren't. The only similarity is them trying to help other people with their wishes. 3. Then what, pray tell, is? There are no other major events in her life, and she had absolutely 0 ambition, the only reason she would ever want to become a MG is to help other people, which was absolutely only triggered by her watching her closest friends die. Imagining a new story for yourself now, are you? 4. I can see you absolutely have no idea what I said here. It was either/or. If the soul gem is not a physical part of the body when transformed, Mami could've easily been revived. If the soul gem IS a part of the body when transformed (because it's never clarified in the anime), the whole speech from Kyuubei makes no sense whatsoever - what's the fucking point of separating them in their normal form, when in the form in which they fight witches, they're still one and the same, and can die as easily as a normal human? That part of the story makes no sense whatsoever, and obviously is only there to make Sayaka's sob-story even sobbier. 5. Please don't accuse other people of paying no attention when you yourself can't even understand what's written in a text when you read it. I said "witches never existed" not "MG never existed", which basically means that MG still exist but can never turn into witches. Same ending scenario, only Madoka isn't a martyr for no reason, and all her friends are still there. Supporting my theory is the fact that the universe stayed more or less the same with a quite similar wish, but if the wording of it was just a bit different, the story would've had a happy ending. Which obviously didn't work for people who wanted to intentionally make a melodramatic story just for the sake of drama. |
| Kyoko:Yeah,Sayaka reminds Kyoko of her past,who she once were. That's why she cares so much about Sayaka and why she eventually wants to help her. Homura:She can't save them,that's the problem.She can't prevent Sayaka from turning into a witch,which also seals Mami's fate and possibly Kyoko's,too,depending on the timeline. Mami:Now I get what you are talking about and it makes no sense. Charlotte eat her soul gem,it's gone.That's what killed her. Madoka:It hard to predict the full consequences,but she certainly couldn't live a normal live if she could interfere with the normal world at all. Btw,all her friends are alive in the end,I don't get why you keep bringing that up. |
| Point by point you prove that you have no idea about what you are saying 1.I hope you realize that he was a priest and that what gave him followers was something that the church, any church sees as evil.Magic. 2.Yes they both wanted to help others but in the end their own wishes destroyed their lives.That is why they are the same and why Kyoko wants to help her. 3.What are you even talking about? 4.Again what are you even talking about?So it would be a BETTER idea to separate them from the Soul Gem when they fight?Unprotected Soul gems.Great idea. When they dont use their powers it is sepateted, and consumes less energy.When "merged" with it they are at full power.And no they don't die that easily when in mg mode. 5.it is the same thing.All wishes have consequences.They needed a sure method for the witches to not exist without affecting the MG's existence.They need a sentient force that can do it at the best moment. |
| Ok, wanted to watch the 3rd movie to make sure I wasn't missing anything, and apparently I didn't miss much. Still I have no answer to these questions: Why didn't Homura try to stop each and every death of Madoka's friends in the series? What was the point of the story about separation of body and soul, other than make Sayaka an intentionally oh-so-tragic character, when we have clear evidence that it doesn't make them any more resistant to damage whatsoever when transformed (as evidenced by Mami getting eaten in one fell swoop). What is the point of saying this http://imgur.com/flVaBMR when it's obvious it doesn't work that way. What is the point of putting a glaringly obvious Achilles' heel on an, as stated, otherwise seemingly invincible person, that seems to be able to break when you look at it, thus killing you? Also, to the previous poster, you have no evidence to state that they "dont die that easily when in mg mode". The only piece of evidence we have, Mami, died in a single hit, so by all means, everything seems to indicate a completely opposite conclusion. Also, there is no evidence that they consume less energy when separated, and no evidence that unprotected soul gems would be destroyed easily as you imply, except if you want to say that they're even weaker that way than when transformed (where they are evidently still quite weak), in which case it further proves my point that the talk was completely pointless. Point #5, same thing. None of what you wrote there is supported in any way by the series' mythology. There's no evidence to prove that wishes have any consequences more dire than any regular action would have. There is also no evidence to prove that they wouldn't eradicate the witches either way, with the wish phrased the way I said it. As a matter of fact, Madoka rewrote the laws of the freaking universe, and all the main characters all still here, which makes me think there's basis to believe that it would still be the same, just without unnecessarily making a martyr out of herself. Basically, you're talking out of your ass, aka, inventing your own story. Having interpretations is fine, but it's not fine if you're trying to present your own interpretations as part of the story. Anyway, that's all from me, since you don't seem to be a valuable conversation partner, seeing as how you apparently don't understand how logic works. |
MigiyakaJul 27, 2014 3:46 PM
| Yes, another point which I've pondering on. Is it really that hard to just talk? Like, "hey Madoka, you know how I have these powers that control time? No? Oh, I'll show you then, you see now? Good. So, basically, I come from the future, and if you ever become a magical girl, you'll eventually become the worst witch to ever appear in this world. So, I'd like for you to never become a magical girl, ok? Nice." Same for Kyouko. Just talk to the fucking guy, jesus christ. I also considered her simply not caring for other people, but looking at it logically, she has the best chances of saving her by also saving her friends, right? Cause in that case she would have no triggers that would turn her into a magical girl, which makes her never die in Walpurgis Night or become a witch. Oh and another thing, after watching the movie, Kyuubei doesn't make any sense either. It's like, you have this creature that's supposed to be void of any emotions whatsoever, and then you have it behaving like the typical movie villain, poking and prodding people just for the fun of it. Didn't Madoka remake the universe so there would be no need for witches' energy by Incubators? And they still went for it? And why the fuck would Homura even tell him about witches anyway? As for the writer, I just found out what he was in involved with, and it's funny, cause I like both of his other works I've watched (Fate/Zero and Psycho Pass) - probably because they make sense in the context of their respective universes, and are not as melodramatic and forced as this one. |
TianCheng said: Why didn't Homura try to stop each and every death of Madoka's friends in the series? That's what she is trying to do the whole time.If nothing else she needs them to fight WN. In fact,Homura trys to save all of them in the show. She warns Mami about charlotte and wants to help her. She trys to save Sayaka by giving her a grief seed. She saves Kyoko when she encounters Oktavia for the first time. TianCheng said: What was the point of the story about separation of body and soul, other than make Sayaka an intentionally oh-so-tragic character, when we have clear evidence that it doesn't make them any more resistant to damage whatsoever when transformed (as evidenced by Mami getting eaten in one fell swoop). What is the point of saying this http://imgur.com/flVaBMR when it's obvious it doesn't work that way. What is the point of putting a glaringly obvious Achilles' heel on an, as stated, otherwise seemingly invincible person, that seems to be able to break when you look at it, thus killing you? Also, to the previous poster, you have no evidence to state that they "dont die that easily when in mg mode". The only piece of evidence we have, Mami, died in a single hit, so by all means, everything seems to indicate a completely opposite conclusion. Also, there is no evidence that they consume less energy when separated, and no evidence that unprotected soul gems would be destroyed easily as you imply, except if you want to say that they're even weaker that way than when transformed (where they are evidently still quite weak), in which case it further proves my point that the talk was completely pointless. Are you kidding me? They are way more resistant than any human. FFS in episode 11 Homura gets hit by a skyscraper and survives. That single hit Mami took destroyed her soul gem.I already explained that in my last post. Also,would you give your soul to someone else?Because I wouldn't. Futheremore,we know there is a limit range before they lose control,so chances are the futher away they are the weaker they get. TianCheng said: Yes, another point which I've pondering on. Is it really that hard to just talk? Like, "hey Madoka, you know how I have these powers that control time? No? Oh, I'll show you then, you see now? Good. So, basically, I come from the future, and if you ever become a magical girl, you'll eventually become the worst witch to ever appear in this world. So, I'd like for you to never become a magical girl, ok? Nice." Same for Kyouko. Just talk to the fucking guy, jesus christ. She tryed to talk to them in the 2nd timeline and it didn't work at all,that's why she gave up on that. TianCheng said: Oh and another thing, after watching the movie, Kyuubei doesn't make any sense either. It's like, you have this creature that's supposed to be void of any emotions whatsoever, and then you have it behaving like the typical movie villain, poking and prodding people just for the fun of it. Didn't Madoka remake the universe so there would be no need for witches' energy by Incubators? And they still went for it? And why the fuck would Homura even tell him about witches anyway?e. He is not making fun of them,he trys to convince them.The problem is he doesn't understand humans at all. And no Madoka didn't.She wants salvation for all mg,that's it. Why wouldn't Homura want to talk about her past? Nobody could keep a secret that big for themself. |
Szadek23 said: That's what she is trying to do the whole time.If nothing else she needs them to fight WN. In fact,Homura trys to save all of them in the show. She warns Mami about charlotte and wants to help her. She trys to save Sayaka by giving her a grief seed. She saves Kyoko when she encounters Oktavia for the first time. So, after she failed to save each and every one of them, why didn't she try and rewind time to try again? Like, whoops Mami died, better rewind now, BEFORE BODIES START PILING UP. Nah I'll just save it for when everyone is dead and all hope is lost. Szadek23 said: Are you kidding me? They are way more resistant than any human. FFS in episode 11 Homura gets hit by a skyscraper and survives. That single hit Mami took destroyed her soul gem.I already explained that in my last post. Also,would you give your soul to someone else?Because I wouldn't. Futheremore,we know there is a limit range before they lose control,so chances are the futher away they are the weaker they get. Good for Homura she didn't get hit with that skyscraper on a glaringly obvious spot on her hand, otherwise she would've just dropped dead instantly, huh. Good thing magical girls have the amazing regenerative power Kyuubei talked about http://imgur.com/wUiZJW8 http://imgur.com/ySykxBQ otherwise that might've been a problem. Oh, wait... http://imgur.com/pnJTtnP Also, quite cool that Kyuubei can warp through any injury apparently, if only he could've provided that ability to the magical girls. Szadek23 said: She tryed to talk to them in the 2nd timeline and it didn't work at all,that's why she gave up on that. No, she didn't. I just rewatched the episode, and all she did was stutter and mutter, failing to make a point across. "Ano, sono, etto" doesn't make a for a very compelling argument. After failing to persuade them, she could've maybe, I dunno, used that power of hers to rewind time and try again after thinking up an argument that actually makes sense? Szadek23 said: He is not making fun of them,he trys to convince them.The problem is he doesn't understand humans at all. I didn't say he makes fun of them, re-read that part. I said he's inventing new evil machinations just for the sake of it. Like "I'm gonna try really hard to be an asshole, even though I have no reason to do so, because the magical beings already provide me with energy. Basically the series needs a villain, so w/e" Szadek23 said: And no Madoka didn't.She wants salvation for all mg,that's it. Well, even if she didn't wish for it, that's what happened. Instead of witches, you got magical beings, which were used in the same way to gather energy by the Incubators. Szadek23 said: Why wouldn't Homura want to talk about her past? Nobody could keep a secret that big for themself. Yeah, exactly. If only she could've done the talking earlier, you know, when she could've used it to save her friends' (or her friend's friends') lives. Please stop contradicting yourself. |
TianCheng said: Good for Homura she didn't get hit with that skyscraper on a glaringly obvious spot on her hand, otherwise she would've just dropped dead instantly, huh. Good thing magical girls have the amazing regenerative power Kyuubei talked about http://imgur.com/wUiZJW8 http://imgur.com/ySykxBQ otherwise that might've been a problem. Oh, wait... http://imgur.com/pnJTtnP Also, quite cool that Kyuubei can warp through any injury apparently, if only he could've provided that ability to the magical girls. 1)Homuras soul gem is at her left hand under her shield(smart girl). 2)Madokas healing powers don't matter when her soul gem gets crushed,which is probably what happend. I have no idea what you are trying to say with the last sentence. TianCheng said: No, she didn't. I just rewatched the episode, and all she did was stutter and mutter, failing to make a point across. "Ano, sono, etto" doesn't make a for a very compelling argument. After failing to persuade them, she could've maybe, I dunno, used that power of hers to rewind time and try again after thinking up an argument that actually makes sense? We actually don't see that see on screen at all only Sayakas very negative reaction.It also really doesn't matter. The important part is:Homura thinks it's pointless. (Btw.my bad it was the 3. timeline.Whatever) TianCheng said: I didn't say he makes fun of them, re-read that part. I said he's inventing new evil machinations just for the sake of it. Like "I'm gonna try really hard to be an asshole, even though I have no reason to do so, because the magical beings already provide me with energy. Basically the series needs a villain, so w/e". My arugment remains the same.He trys to convince in the only way he knows, with logic,but it doesn't work,because it comes across as cruel. TianCheng said: Yeah, exactly. If only she could've done the talking earlier, you know, when she could've used it to save her friends' (or her friend's friends') lives. Please stop contradicting yourself. That's not a contradiction at all.She isn't telling the other girl what will happen,because no one will belive her (or at least she thinks so). In epiosde 12 she went through some crazy stuff ,even for her standarts , and she wants to talk about it,which makes perfect sense. |
Szadek23 said: 1)Homuras soul gem is at her left hand under her shield(smart girl). 2)Madokas healing powers don't matter when her soul gem gets crushed,which is probably what happend. I have no idea what you are trying to say with the last sentence. We actually don't see that on screen, that's just your inference. See how that works? Szadek23 said: We actually don't see that see on screen at all only Sayakas very negative reaction.It also really doesn't matter. The important part is:Homura thinks it's pointless. (Btw.my bad it was the 3. timeline.Whatever) http://imgur.com/exOh2CK She said "That's because..." and "N-no". Totally compelling arguments 10/10, would get convinced by them again. Szadek23 said: My arugment remains the same.He trys to convince in the only way he knows, with logic,but it doesn't work,because it comes across as cruel. No he doesn't. There's no logic there. If he was so big on logic, he would understand that doing so would alienate the MG and thus end up in a position where he could get killed (as he did). If he doesn't have emotions, he should be able to understand how they work. That's what being logical is all about. Szadek23 said: That's not a contradiction at all.She isn't telling the other girl what will happen,because no one will belive her (or at least she thinks so). In epiosde 12 she went through some crazy stuff ,even for her standarts , and she wants to talk about it,which makes perfect sense. Again, that's your own inference, which has absolutely 0 evidence to back it up. Even if it did work that way, then it's just a badly written character - no normal human being would ever react the way people do in this show. |
TianCheng said: We actually don't see that on screen, that's just your inference. See how that works? I gave a perfecly reasonable explonatiion on how she died. You claim that magical girls are just a fragile as normal humans,but you have no evidence. On the contrary,they survived many things no human could survive. TianCheng said: http://imgur.com/exOh2CK She said "That's because..." and "N-no". Totally compelling arguments 10/10, would get convinced by them again. I already explained why that doesn't matter. She think it's not going to work,that's the only thing that really important. TianCheng said: No he doesn't. There's no logic there. If he was so big on logic, he would understand that doing so would alienate the MG and thus end up in a position where he could get killed (as he did). If he doesn't have emotions, he should be able to understand how they work. That's what being logical is all about. Incubators don't understand emotions,that was mentioned several times. TianCheng said: Again, that's your own inference, which has absolutely 0 evidence to back it up. Even if it did work that way, then it's just a badly written character How is that a badly writen character? She doesn't want to repeat herself over and over again about something she thinks no one will belive her. Now she is a bad character,because she talked once about something else that probably no one will belive her? She watched the recreation of the universe,that's something you most likely want to talk about at least once,just saying. |
| I do have evidence. See: Mami, Kyouko, Madoka in alternate universe. They should be these all-powerful beings that can regenerate even if they lose "every drop of blood in their body" but then they just go and... die. That's a contradiction in the story right there. Story could've worked just fine without that explanation, but then we'd have no bullshit melodramatic moment that would turn the most positive character in the show into an emo bitch in 2 episodes flat. I like how you constantly claim you know what the characters think, even though we haven't seen her thoughts about that anywhere. She tried one, miserably at best, and then dropped it. If fate of the entire fucking universe depended on me, I would do my very fucking best to convince the Pope that God doesn't exist, if that's what it took. I wouldn't half-assedly try it once, and then just give up and forget about it. Yes it was mentioned that they don't understand emotions, but it was also mentioned several times that they use logical thinking. If nothing else, any being that boasts its logical thinking about, would understand after all that shit that you do not fuck with something so unpredictable (which he, himself, noted emotions are). But then he goes, being the greedy bastard that he is, and tries, once again to turn people into witches, even though he has (as explained) a stable income in energy from magical beings. Why? Already explained this i the second-paragraph. It comes down to this though - with that kind of power, she could do basically anything, including but not limited to shit like - making one of them tell her something they never told anyone then go back and repeat it to them, saying sentences before other people told them, "predicting" future events, etc. These are just off the top of my head, thing I might try to persuade people. There's literally infinite possibilities to convince people of your time traveling skills, if you indeed posses such a skill. |
TianCheng said: I do have evidence. See: Mami, Kyouko, Madoka in alternate universe. They should be these all-powerful beings that can regenerate even if they lose "every drop of blood in their body" but then they just go and... die. That's a contradiction in the story right there. Story could've worked just fine without that explanation, but then we'd have no bullshit melodramatic moment that would turn the most positive character in the show into an emo bitch in 2 episodes flat. You keep ignoring the soul gem part of kyubeys speach.No contradiction there They can also run out of energry and turn into witches ,or kill themself. Sayaka is a prime candidate for the former ,mami for the later. There are also many other possibilities,like say the don't get a long with Kyoko at all and have to fight her. TianCheng said: I like how you constantly claim you know what the characters think, even though we haven't seen her thoughts about that anywhere. She tried one, miserably at best, and then dropped it. If fate of the entire fucking universe depended on me, I would do my very fucking best to convince the Pope that God doesn't exist, if that's what it took. I wouldn't half-assedly try it once, and then just give up and forget about it. To quote Humra from episode 10:"No one belives in the future.No one can accept the future." (around 17:00) Seems pretty obvious to me. I'm not even saying he is right,maybe she made a mistake.Humans tend to do that from time to time. TianCheng said: Yes it was mentioned that they don't understand emotions, but it was also mentioned several times that they use logical thinking. If nothing else, any being that boasts its logical thinking about, would understand after all that shit that you do not fuck with something so unpredictable (which he, himself, noted emotions are). But then he goes, being the greedy bastard that he is, and tries, once again to turn people into witches, even though he has (as explained) a stable income in energy from magical beings. Why? Because witches,or at least the transformation into one, produces way more energry than magical girls alone. At the time they also don't know how unpredictable and dangerous emotions truely are. |
| I don't hate it. I also really don't think it's the masterpiece many claim it to be. Not at all. Characters were terrible except for Kyubei (who was unfortunately not explored that much) and the hype did generate some backlash with me. TianCheng said: Yes, another point which I've pondering on. Is it really that hard to just talk? Like, "hey Madoka, you know how I have these powers that control time? No? Oh, I'll show you then, you see now? Good. So, basically, I come from the future, and if you ever become a magical girl, you'll eventually become the worst witch to ever appear in this world. So, I'd like for you to never become a magical girl, ok? Nice." Same for Kyouko. Just talk to the fucking guy, jesus christ. lol this is exactly what pisses me off the most (aside from everything about Sayaka). Homura has to carry to idiot ball for the plot to work. |
grandy_UiDJul 28, 2014 1:45 AM
| I forgot something very important. Mami and Sayaka can't handle the truth,so convincing them would only break them. Come to think of it,I don't think she could ever convince them anyway. This looks like a "you have to see it in order to belive it" situation,otherwiese they will simply deny it as long as possible. |
Szadek23 said: This looks like a "you have to see it in order to belive it" situation,otherwiese they will simply deny it as long as possible. And what is so difficult about that? Homura just has to take someones Soul Gem and throw it away. Which is exactly what happened and instantly convinced everyone of Kyubei's "evil" intentions. You do have a point that this would most likely make at least Sayaka go insane (for whatever reason...) but Homura doesn't know that and it's at least worth a try. Seriously, it's almost laughably easy for her to prove her claims. |
grandy_UiD said: Szadek23 said: This looks like a "you have to see it in order to belive it" situation,otherwiese they will simply deny it as long as possible. And what is so difficult about that? Homura just has to take someones Soul Gem and throw it away. Which is exactly what happened and instantly convinced everyone of Kyubei's "evil" intentions. You do have a point that this would most likely make at least Sayaka go insane (for whatever reason...) but Homura doesn't know that and it's at least worth a try. Seriously, it's almost laughably easy for her to prove her claims. Mami AND Sayaka would go crazy and Homura KNOWS that since it happened in many of her near 100 loops. Yes she can prove her claims but forcefully shoving the truth down their throats,is a bad idea and we already saw what a sudden revelation caused;Magical Girls murdering each other. Sound like a plan. |
ssjokg said: grandy_UiD said: And what is so difficult about that? Homura just has to take someones Soul Gem and throw it away. Which is exactly what happened and instantly convinced everyone of Kyubei's "evil" intentions. You do have a point that this would most likely make at least Sayaka go insane (for whatever reason...) but Homura doesn't know that and it's at least worth a try. Seriously, it's almost laughably easy for her to prove her claims. Mami AND Sayaka would go crazy and Homura KNOWS that since it happened in many of her near 100 loops. Yes she can prove her claims but forcefully shoving the truth down their throats,is a bad idea and we already saw what a sudden revelation caused;Magical Girls murdering each other. Sound like a plan. How about doing it before Sayaka even becomes a witch (EDIT: not witch but magical girl of course)? True there would be Mami to deal with which would suck but hey you can't have a happy end for absolutely everybody. At least after that it would prevent much of the other tragedies and Sayaka and Madoka would never trust Kyubei which was Homura's goal as far as I remember (at least as far as Madoka is concerned, she would never becoma a magical girl that way). Of course that would also mean the plot never gets going... |
grandy_UiDJul 28, 2014 3:23 AM
grandy_UiD said: ssjokg said: Mami AND Sayaka would go crazy and Homura KNOWS that since it happened in many of her near 100 loops. Yes she can prove her claims but forcefully shoving the truth down their throats,is a bad idea and we already saw what a sudden revelation caused;Magical Girls murdering each other. Sound like a plan. How about doing it before Sayaka even becomes a witch? True there would be Mami to deal with which would suck but hey you can't have a happy end for absolutely everybody. At least after that it would prevent much of the other tragedies and Sayaka and Madoka would never trust Kyubei which was Homura's goal as far as I remember (at least as far as Madoka is concerned, she would never becoma a magical girl that way). Of course that would also mean the plot never gets going... The time Sayaka becomes a witch is irrelevant with Homura's attempts at proving her claims. Whether she used the Soul Gem as proof or it was an accident, like in the last timeline, Sayaka's reaction wouldnt change.Why would it anyway?It doesnt change the fact that she wouldn't like the truth and transform into a witch. Homura has no way to prove that she is from the future, she can only prove her time stopping abilities, so "I know of a way to save you" bluff wouldnt work either. QB also claims to not know her,and it is the truth, so she has nothing. |
ssjokg said: The time Sayaka becomes a witch is irrelevant with Homura's attempts at proving her claims. Whether she used the Soul Gem as proof or it was an accident, like in the last timeline, Sayaka's reaction wouldnt change.Why would it anyway?It doesnt change the fact that she wouldn't like the truth and transform into a witch. Yes I made a mistake in my previous post which made my point nonsensical, my bad. Of course I meant "before Sayaka becomes a magical girl" |
grandy_UiD said: ssjokg said: The time Sayaka becomes a witch is irrelevant with Homura's attempts at proving her claims. Whether she used the Soul Gem as proof or it was an accident, like in the last timeline, Sayaka's reaction wouldnt change.Why would it anyway?It doesnt change the fact that she wouldn't like the truth and transform into a witch. Yes I made a mistake in my previous post which made my point nonsensical, my bad. Of course I meant "before Sayaka becomes a magical girl" And she would try that with what?Her own Soul Gem? That would be fine,if we ignore that she MAY not survive, but Madoka would STILL try to help her, and turn herself into a MG.She is that kind of character. |
ssjokg said: grandy_UiD said: Yes I made a mistake in my previous post which made my point nonsensical, my bad. Of course I meant "before Sayaka becomes a magical girl" And she would try that with what?Her own Soul Gem? That would be fine,if we ignore that she MAY not survive, but Madoka would STILL try to help her, and turn herself into a MG.She is that kind of character. Mami's Soul Gem? And if we're arguing that Madoka would ALWAYS become a MG no matter the circumstances then that makes all of Homura's struggle and therefore the entire series ultimately pointless. But even if that's the case that still doesn't change the fact that Homura is an idiot for not trying the simplest thing: talk to everyone about it. And the only reason I can come up with for why they would write her like that is because otherwise the plot doesn't kick in. So they have her carry the idiot ball. |
grandy_UiDJul 28, 2014 3:55 AM
grandy_UiD said: ssjokg said: And she would try that with what?Her own Soul Gem? That would be fine,if we ignore that she MAY not survive, but Madoka would STILL try to help her, and turn herself into a MG.She is that kind of character. Mami's Soul Gem? And if we're arguing that Madoka would ALWAYS become a MG no matter the circumstances then that makes all of Homura's struggle and therefore the entire series ultimately pointless. But even if that's the case that still doesn't change the fact that Homura is an idiot for not trying it. Why are we going from the bad choice to the worst? Homura tries to eliminate everything that could give Madoka a reason to become a MG.Letting others die or driving them mad,including herself, surely isnt the best solution. That is why she tries to beat WN alone or at least with the help of Kyoko. If Homura where to succeed in that she would at least have completed the most difficult part of her mission and even without help from others she could hunt down witches alone away from the others, without involving Madoka and/or any of the girls that survived. |
grandy_UiD said: ssjokg said: And she would try that with what?Her own Soul Gem? That would be fine,if we ignore that she MAY not survive, but Madoka would STILL try to help her, and turn herself into a MG.She is that kind of character. Mami's Soul Gem? And if we're arguing that Madoka would ALWAYS become a MG no matter the circumstances then that makes all of Homura's struggle and therefore the entire series ultimately pointless. But even if that's the case that still doesn't change the fact that Homura is an idiot for not trying the simplest thing: talk to everyone about it. And the only reason I can come up with for why they would write her like that is because otherwise the plot doesn't kick in. So they have her carry the idiot ball. Episode 10: third timeline "This transfer student is full of shit" |
 |
grandy_UiD said: ssjokg said: The time Sayaka becomes a witch is irrelevant with Homura's attempts at proving her claims. Whether she used the Soul Gem as proof or it was an accident, like in the last timeline, Sayaka's reaction wouldnt change.Why would it anyway?It doesnt change the fact that she wouldn't like the truth and transform into a witch. Yes I made a mistake in my previous post which made my point nonsensical, my bad. Of course I meant "before Sayaka becomes a magical girl" Ok that makes more sense. Homura still has to defeat WN,though.The unknown factor now is Kyoko. Since kyubey wants Homura to fail,he probably would influence Kyoko in a negative way or simple prevent her from ever coming to the city in the first place. |
| In Rebellion she says that revealing the truth to Mami always hurt her(Homura) that implies that she tried more than once. |
ssjokg said: In Rebellion she says that revealing the truth to Mami always hurt her(Homura) that implies that she tried more than once. She had done it in a previous timeline and it didn't end well indeed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uekQDjjHi0M |
|
HeisenDurden said: Episode 10: third timeline "This transfer student is full of shit" Read some posts on the previous page. It's very easy to actually prove her claim, making no one trust Kyubei ever again also making it harder for him to manipulate everyone so well. I'll give credit to the writers that they at least acknowledge the "talking it out" issue. However they do it half-assed and simply handwave the whole thing with "lol they just don't believe her anyway" which is a really lazy way to get out of this in my opinion. |
grandy_UiD said: HeisenDurden said: Episode 10: third timeline "This transfer student is full of shit" Read some posts on the previous page. It's very easy to actually prove her claim, making no one trust Kyubei ever again also making it harder for him to manipulate everyone so well. I'll give credit to the writers that they at least acknowledge the "talking it out" issue. However they do it half-assed and simply handwave the whole thing with "lol they just don't believe her anyway" which is a really lazy way to get out of this in my opinion. And As I said there is no safe way for her to prove anything. |
| No one said anything about safe and this is not the point either. I also don't see how what she did was any "safer". |
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