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| That fence went up too high, and seemingly spanned too much area to not show up on the overhead, but oh well. So Battler saw that whole thing with Kinzo and Beatrice? |
noteDhero said: That fence went up too high, and seemingly spanned too much area to not show up on the overhead, but oh well. So Battler saw that whole thing with Kinzo and Beatrice? We can assume Meta-Battler did.... About the mansion, try not to think too deep into it.... Anything can happen in this series....And we are not yet ready to face the solutions of the mysteries....Must wait until the later arcs probably... |
bla bla bla The endless debate between fans and haters. At one point, after spending a lot of time on MAL, you just realize it's totally pointless.Niko-kun said: On MAL, everyone who has used the lame rating system becomes a critic and an intellectual by default, haven't you heard? |
loli_slayer said: I was thinking they did the second one on purpose but the first one was just wrong. The only two annoying things with this episode:" This : and this: I'm not a VN reader but I think the Stakes are love. I don't know why. (Might have been the fanservice. Might not've been :P) |
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| It was okay I expected Kanon's fight to be longer and more flashy and the way they killed of Beatrice in the past made it so Rosa is less to be blamed for in the game you could really kind of blame her for it in the anime not so much also they didn't show enough of the innocent Beato so it will serve as less of in impact later IMO |
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| this was probably one of my fave episodes. NOT AS GOOD AS EPISODE 9, but still good. why? ▮tits. lucifer. tits. lucifer. tits. ▮GITAAAAAAHHHH appeared. along with her slutty sisters. ▮tits. shannon. tits. genji. tits. shannon. ▮GOHDDDAAAA. ▮i seriously love the scenes where beatrice gets all butthurt everytime she sees shannon. it's hilarious :') oh. almost forgot about lucifer's pantsu shot.... IT WAS SHORT-LIVED, BUT I'LL CHERISH THOSE 2 SECONDS FOREVER. |
zoldicksSep 25, 2009 9:27 PM
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| wow, i didnt see the grandmother as beato's teacher in disguise |
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| Whats with that rose print on Shannon and Kanon's chest ?! Some kind of curse ? |
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| Lol. |
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| Kanon :D me happy. Well, I'd say that it's surprising to see that Kinzo was actually powerful enough to trap a witch like Beatrice o.O and wipe out her memories as well... I want to know more about Genji, NAO. ...and you should've seen my epic WTF face when Beatrice revealed that Kumasawa=Virgilia. |
- If you believe this place holds you, it is a prison. If you do not wish to leave, it will become a fortress. Current icon: Kusuriuri from Mononoke by pana (LJ username) |
| The old lady became so much better. |
| if we die we'll meet again in valhalla... |
| I loved this episode so much. The pacing was nice, and it wasn't rushed :D I've been waiting for Luci's appearance for a RATHER LONG TIME NOW. I love what she did to her voice xD. Now... for the next ep.... |
| - Fight with Kanon and Lucifer was kind of lame... but then again, I always think they are, lol. - Ronove is awesome. - Kumasawa is the former Beatrice???? Whoaaaa, didn't see that coming. |
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| If the old female maid in this board is Beatrice's teacher, the last Beatrice, does that mean that that was just for this board. Cause I find it hard to believe in the past boards that it's the same person then, especially game 2, since then she shouldn't have died like that, she would've realised that it wasn't Kanon but a goat demon or whatever. Poor Battler! He now either has to admit that there was a witch or other supernatural forces at work, or it was at least one of the family and/or servants. One thing I must say though is that where does he think he is right now? Cause I think at that point while it may be possible yet to prove that only humans commited the crimes, and that the current supernatural scenes he's seeing are "fantasy", but how does he explain the whole situation he's in right now? Also, I've been confused for a while now, and am now even more strongly, about how exactly the board works. Obviously, Battler has little if no influence on his game piece since in the last board the game piece totally gave up, but how many of the game pieces are actually not just game pieces? Like the 7 stakes, Beatrice, and Ronove, do they directly control their "pieces"? And at the end of game 2, Bernkastel (I know I messed up her name) the witch of miracles was in that crowd who were wearing the goat heads, and at least in the vn scene (I saw the youtube of it that had been posted in that thread) she had reacted as if it was her, and not some mere piece. So I guess what I'm saying is, does Beatrice as well as maybe some of the other supernatural characters control the pieces directly, or is everything going as was preset by Beatrice? |
(Almost) 13 years on MAL! ()__() (='.'=) (")_(") |
bwahahachick said: - Kumasawa is the former Beatrice???? Whoaaaa, didn't see that coming. uh if you could see anything in this show coming I'd be really surprised |
| Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
| A popular theory for the old Beatrice is that she didn't show herself because this is the first time she was attacked while alone. The game between Battler and Beatrice is about the murders being committed by magic. The separate world they're in is a different matter. Battler doesn't have to explain it and Beatrice doesn't ask him to explain it. Why? I dunno. That's just how it is. As for how the pieces work, I have no idea. Your guess is as good as mine. |
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| Well, the show is getting slightly more interesting now. I think Bronove (yes, bro) is making this show more bearable to watch. |
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| W0w Didn't expect that from the old lady |
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| Battler vs Beatrice A battle of twisted logic. |
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| More like battle of futility. |
| Oh well. The anime can't have everything without having a super slow pace. |
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moldy_tomato said: A lot of twisted logic was cut in the anime. For example, Hempel's Raven wasn't introduced. ......Yet. That part hasn't even happened in the anime. Edit: Nevermind, I was thinking of the box one. |
titanguy654Sep 27, 2009 7:35 AM
| I don't remember that wound Kanon inflicting upon Lucifer on the VN being a bust wound. Was it? |
 Old avatar and sig retired for now. |
| The show really isn't about logic as much as it is perspective and point of view. Logic infers that there is enough facts to go off of to form a conclusion, and there just isn't enough facts to say that there is anything logical about the show. It's all speculation. |
| For every certainty given in this story, there is at least 3 or more uncertainties. At the very least. Despite that, saying magic doesn't exist is just, with certainty, is pretty unsensible. And Battler has an awfully, ...fickle way of using terms like magic and witches. It can be trying and annoying. |
Old avatar and sig retired for now. |
| Hempel's Raven was pointless anyway. As soon as Beatrice reveals in red that there's no more than 18 people on Rokkenjima, it's never mentioned or used again. Now if they cut I will be pissed. |
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MarthX said: Hempel's Raven was pointless anyway. As soon as Beatrice reveals in red that there's no more than 18 people on Rokkenjima, it's never mentioned or used again. Now if they cut I will be pissed. But how many people will REALLY understand Schrödinger fully and understand what this is all about? Not the majority, I predict. |
bla bla bla The endless debate between fans and haters. At one point, after spending a lot of time on MAL, you just realize it's totally pointless.Niko-kun said: On MAL, everyone who has used the lame rating system becomes a critic and an intellectual by default, haven't you heard? |
noteDhero said: The show really isn't about logic as much as it is perspective and point of view. Logic infers that there is enough facts to go off of to form a conclusion, and there just isn't enough facts to say that there is anything logical about the show. It's all speculation. I'd have to agree with this at this point of time. From the anti-fantasy point of view, we use Piece-Battlers perspective + Red text to logically form conclusions about what happened. However, so far there has not been enough red text to accurately speculate. Arc 1: Zero Red Text. Arc 2: Had Minimal Red Text in the novel and probably only 1/2-2/3 of that was actually present in the anime. Arc 3: Has just started. So at this point while theorycrafting is possible, there is just not enough information to make Logically sound arguments. |
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hirahira said: I hated the fanservice but it could have been worse. Boo feminazi |
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| I hate to be the bad guy here, but there is a reason MarthX put |
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Wattson said: actually you dont really need red words to make logically sound arguments. to solve a murder mystery like this, the most important thing is always asking yourself why. very action taken during the process has its purpose or cause. its not important to know everything but where to look for proofs. noteDhero said: The show really isn't about logic as much as it is perspective and point of view. Logic infers that there is enough facts to go off of to form a conclusion, and there just isn't enough facts to say that there is anything logical about the show. It's all speculation. I'd have to agree with this at this point of time. From the anti-fantasy point of view, we use Piece-Battlers perspective + Red text to logically form conclusions about what happened. However, so far there has not been enough red text to accurately speculate. Arc 1: Zero Red Text. Arc 2: Had Minimal Red Text in the novel and probably only 1/2-2/3 of that was actually present in the anime. Arc 3: Has just started. So at this point while theorycrafting is possible, there is just not enough information to make Logically sound arguments. for example in the first arc without any red word, logical arguments can be made simply by answering the most obvious questions: like why were there 6 people killed at the first night? why those people and not others? If the murderer was able to kill 6 people why didnt he kill all the others but instead put on such an act? logical answers would be: 6 people were killed because its was planned to resemble the epitaph under the portrait so as to confuse people it might be the golden witch and thus hide his true identity. why those people? the chosen victims were relatively random (as proofed in later arcs) but mostly adults (if i remember right) because adults would be more possible to see through his plan if left alive. (eg battler's mom <--clever as shown in later arcs) why not kill all? because it wasnt his plan at all to kill all people at first (eg maria?) (here we might need a bit more background info to understand his intention at first place.) then why was everyone dead at the end? because certain things dont always go according to plans? the fact Natsuhi was drugged during the first night proofed things didnt go as planned at all. why was she drugged? because she was planned to be one of the 6 victims, but someone else sacrificed at her place instead. in fact, there are so many details showed in first arc(and 2nd), Im sure theres someone in the world already made a completely logical theory. its just such a pain to think too much though.... |
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| I see what you are saying. I guess what I was trying to say was that there isn't much that happens in the first two arcs that actually denies theories people can come up with. By this I mean that there is so many possibilities as to what happened and why it happened that it is relatively easy to come up with a theory. For example: First arc: One of the first 6 dead was a fake corpse and they committed all of the murders. Second arc: Rosa was the culrpit and she had Genji helping her. Those are both valid theories for the first two arcs. However, because it is so easy to come up with a theory, there will be so many different theories out there all of which are valid. So the easier it becomes to speculate, the harder it is to find out what the truth is. Thats what the red truth does, it makes it harder to speculate but at the same time it eliminates the untrue theories. You make a really good point. Its also important to look at what the characters are actually doing. For example: First arc: Why did Maria send a letter in a bottle asking the outside world to solve what happened when she herself believed it to be Beatrice? Second Arc: Why was Rosa shown to be in the chapel with the rest of the adults yet she never mentioned it afterwords. |
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| The thing is, as Wattson began to say, is that there are so many possibilities that even what has been show could be the real answer. Meaning: Beatrice is a witch and killed them all with magic. As far as your answers go isn't Battler 18 and George in his early twenties? They're just as much adults (even though Battler acts like a child) as everyone else. I don't remember the show stating that Natsuhi was drugged either, and many of your answers have questions. That's my point. There's little objective truth to go on to support any type of logic. It's all just speculation and theory, almost nothing is more or less possible than another. The only thing I can say for sure is that the show is based around the idea that anything is possible as long as you fervently believe, so depending on how defeated Battler feels by the answer arcs will determine whether Beatrice's magic has any affect (magic exists, but because of this whole risk business, that is the clear out for explaining why it won't work if there is a human culprit). Battler also has Bernkastel on his side, so I think it's rather obvious which direction the show is heading. Regardless though, they're all dead, and Battler is still an idiot. I just hope Bernkastel doesn't intervene too much and place them in a parallel world to have a happy ending. |
Wattson said: thats two assumptions you made totally baseless therefore they cant be considered as of now. If you want to just throw in a theory, you might as well say alien killed them all: it cant be proved or disproved. :-)First arc: One of the first 6 dead was a fake corpse and they committed all of the murders. Second arc: Rosa was the culrpit and she had Genji helping her. for example my first assumption in the post above was: the murderer wasnt a witch. its base on human/witch logical intent. He killed people in such a pattern as to give other people the impression that its the witch who did it, and thus lowering the rate people looking for the real murderer. The lock-room mystery is the additional proof why it was human. Why should a witch kill someone in a locked room? no reason, for fun? why should the human murderer kill someone in a locked room? to add to the impression that it was indeed the witch. but of course, I made the very first assumption that none of the characters is out of his mind. anyone can make theory, but it more important why and how you come to that very conclusion. so if you base your theories on every detail, Im pretty sure it can be solved. It could be very hard to correctly interpret every action and constantly asking why though. one should not make theory too soon or you will end up misinterpret the proofs. but making no theory at all certainly wont help you solving anything. |
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| Wow. I wasnt expecting the old lady to be Beatrice's Teacher. |
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vinesage said: thats two assumptions you made totally baseless therefore they cant be considered as of now. The aren't totally baseless. They don't have a particularly strong base but they do have supporting evidence. For the first one: The fact that 4 of the first six corpses had their faces destroyed to the point where they couldn't be recognized. All of the survivors had alibis for Natsuhi's death. Second one: Rosa "saw" Beatrice twice yet never mentioned that she had. Most of the closed rooms can be solved by having a servant accomplice and Genji was the only servant alive at the end. The motive of the Family Inheritance can be used for both those theories. |
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unellmay said: hirahira said: I hated the fanservice but it could have been worse. Boo feminazi Because not liking fanservice is a tenant of feminism, right. |
Old avatar and sig retired for now. |
ukonkivi said: unellmay said: hirahira said: I hated the fanservice but it could have been worse. Boo feminazi Because not liking fanservice is a tenant of feminism, right. Yes of course......Trying to ban our hentai damn them |
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| In my opinion? Witches did it, but Battler is simply finding a way to prove that witches might NOT have done it in order to fuck over Beato. I would do it too. Seems fun. |
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unellmay said: ukonkivi said: unellmay said: hirahira said: I hated the fanservice but it could have been worse. Boo feminazi Because not liking fanservice is a tenant of feminism, right. Yes of course......Trying to ban our hentai damn them Sigh....you fool. |
Old avatar and sig retired for now. |
MarthX said:  Moetrice and Stakes. Nice Lucifer fanservice Yes. Lucifer fanservice was awesome. :3 The episode was pretty cool, I liked the flashback to the younger Beatrice. And being as I've never played the VN, everything is new to me, and I have no idea what people are talking about when they say "Dread of the Grave" or "Hope and Nighteyes". But I don't really care right now, because this show is so addicting. I'll catch up with the VN another day. |
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