Mobile Suit Gundam Unicorn Episode 7 Discussion

Champloo_Remix said:


ZZ is easily my least favorite UC Gundam I've seen but to be fair it starts getting good the last 1/4...well really just the end stretch. It's not as horrible as some make it out to be but it is probably the weak link of MSG-Unicorn by a clear margin. But now with Unicorn out it's fairly important in regards to Mineva and Marida's backgrounds.

ex_necross said:


True. My advice to a person who just wants to know the Universal Century better and doesn't intend to sit down and watch every single one of them would to be skip ZZ. Gundam fans will end up watching it sooner or later regardless. Non Gundam fans would probably just be turned off with ZZ. Watching that shit to the end takes some patience that I'm not sure most people want to put up with.

I agree it's not terrible, it's ok. I just can't recommend it to anyone.

Champloo_Remix said:

The recommendation I always give to people is

MSG
Stardust Memory
Zeta
ZZ
Char's Counterattack

in that order and then Unicorn if you so choose (and you should because it's awesome)

I'd still recommend people watch ZZ. It's quite enjoyable if you understand it's different coming in and currently it's too integral to the story with Unicorn out. Plus you miss out on an entire Neo Zeon war. Idk, you could read about it if you wanted to but you lose the impact and real significance/weight of all these things coming into Unicorn if you do. It's better to experience it. But that's just the kind of anime watcher I am I suppose lol.

ex_necross said:



If someone is new to the Gundam series and UC in particular, I usually will tell them the "big 3" (MSG, Zeta, CCA). It's too much for most people to want to watch so many series just to get familiar with the universe, not to mention Unicorn does well enough as a standalone. My first order of watching UC was MSG>Zeta>MS Team>Victory>CCA>F91>ZZ. Sounds weird but still understood most things just fine.

But hey, I'm sure many people love ZZ. My opinion doesn't matter for other people lol.

cupc said:
I was shitting bricks from all the climaxes so much that I think my asshole became a rectangle.

That was just too beautiful, I feel like crying tears of time now.

Even Amuro had a short line in there ;__;

Easy 10/10 for this series

Champloo_Remix said:

Yeah it's not the biggest deal regardless but for the record my first watching order was actually what I said I recommend people lol. Basically go in order, skip the side stories (aside from Stardust Memory which is the perfect bridge between MSG and Zeta), and enjoy lol.

I think Unicorn is fine as a standalone too but you get so much more out of it when it's the epilogue/end to this 40-50 year story that takes you on a very magical yet very pragmatic ride.

When I started Universal Century I had too much time on my hands and was too OCD about it so I had to watch ZZ despite knowing it gets hated on coming in lol. I'm glad I did though.

Champloo_Remix said:

There's a whole 100 year gap though from Unicorn to F91 so for all we know things changed for the better after Unicorn but gradually turned into what we saw in F91 hypothetically speaking of course.

Champloo_Remix said:

Don't tell him to skip ZZ now of all times lol. Prior to Unicorn people would say ZZ is "skippable" if you really so choose but it plays a pretty significant role in Unicorn so now you almost can't skip it (well you can skip anything if you choose to but I wouldn't).

MissileSoup said:


There's only less than 30 years gap between Unicorn and F91.


Yeah, don't skip ZZ if you want to get the most out of Unicorn. You miss out on Puru and information on Newtypes. It's not bad, just has an awkward transition between the first and second half.

Champloo_Remix said:

Well old man Vist did go on his whole schtick about how 100 years from now (F91 anyone?) Newtypes and all the ideologies linked to them including Laplace's Box will fade to nothingness.

There's a whole 100 year gap though from Unicorn to F91 so for all we know things changed for the better after Unicorn but gradually turned into what we saw in F91 hypothetically speaking of course.

Champloo_Remix said:
Lol I meant 40-50 years in terms of the original Mobile Suit Gundam starting in 1979 til now in 2014. So I'm bad at math but actually that's like 30 or 40 something years right? Not 50.

MissileSoup said:

I'm confused. The context in which I quoted you was you implying maybe something did change between the 100 UC years between Unicorn and F91. I'm just saying there was less than 30 years between the events of Unicorn (UC 0096) and F91 (UC 0123), and not 100. Just a minor correction. Nothing about release dates involved. I probably should have quoted the entire post, but I don't like cluttering up discussions with long quotes.

Phoenix6000 said:


F91 occurs in U.C.123, which is only 27 years after Unicorn.

skudoops said:
So what were you guys favourite scenes?

Mine were

- When that Jegan ECOS type took on those two other MS. (that dude was just a badass through the whole thing)

- Full Frontal's flashbacks, those got me emotional. I'd like to see the old stuff reanimated with unicorn's quality.

- Char's reunion with Lalah and Amuro.

Out of the entire OVA I think the best battle was this one in UC7, but it was also by far the longest.

Ignoring this ep, the assault on torrington and the assault on Palau. Really loved those two fights.

skudoops said:
- Char's reunion with Lalah and Amuro.

Setsuna200 said:
At least we now know the fate of Amuro and Char Aznabel.

Zadine05 said:
LOVED THIS EP! TOTTALY WORTH THE WAIT ALL OF IT! But I gotta ask.. TF is with Riddhe and always losing his right leg? lol

Primus2x said:
So when will a complete series box set be released?

And yes, I respect the producers of Gundam, I'm not going to find fansubs.

j0x said:
great conclusion, in the light novels they say that banagher died but its good that they change that ending

RedgraveGilver said:
I couldn't ask more for an epic satisfying ending. Unicorn really delivers and Sunrise smooth at it's best. Now unto Origin and G-Reco.

Marida's death broke my heart. She's one of my favorite female character in Gundam. "Puru puru"

I also very much appreciated Char and Lalah's cameo.

Funny how Mineva said in her speech "let us all proceed into the next century in peace" or something along that line but then Victory Gundam happened xD

AllStarNemesis said:
Wars don't breed more wars.

arzter said:
This Gundam was so Epic and really Sentimental for me and i have to admit , its the best by far in which i watched a few Gundams such as Gundam Wing , Seed , Destiny , 00 and Age . Can anyone help me in the list of Gundam i should watched to completely understand unicorn ? I have MSG the movie Trilogy , Zeta , CCA , Evolve , 08th as well as IGLOO ( in which im not sure whether its related or not) . All those i listed is the one i recently *ehem* get bfr i watched the final ep of unicorn . I Watched the trilogy to actually understand who was Audrey's dad as well as Lalah and Char and get to know Amuro .


P/S : Is it safe to assume that Banagher is a better newtype as well as a Gundam Pilot than Amuro Ray ?

arzter said:
P/S : Is it safe to assume that Banagher is a better newtype as well as a Gundam Pilot than Amuro Ray ?

Ckan said:
Nothing wanting. Universal Century doesn't need anything else, even if it does come.

I find it hard to say anyone is as capable a pilot as Amuro; the veteran at the forefront of mobile suit combat. Of course, not everyone has the benefit of newtype precognition, but he's proven himself to be a master of adaptability and tactics. But it's always hard to compare, as every iteration hasn't different pilots and equipment to compare with.

It's hard to say about 'better' newtype. There've been a large array of manifestations of newtpype power: distance telepathy/empathy, seeing beyond - and then more physical occurances.

In part, we can put the extensiveness of Banaghers powers to Unicorn and its advances psycho-frame tech, but that's also part of his 'completion/perfection' as a newtype, I suppose.

ex_necross said:


If you paid attention to the story, Banagher became the first true newtype at the end of the episode, also seen as basically an ascension to godhood. By definition, this literally means he is better than every other newtype to have ever existed. You can disagree all you want, but it is canon.

ex_necross said:


If you paid attention to the story, Banagher became the first true newtype at the end of the episode, also seen as basically an ascension to godhood. By definition, this literally means he is better than every other newtype to have ever existed. You can disagree all you want, but it is canon.

Champloo_Remix said:

kind of an interesting thing to consider the origins of the psychoframe...who came up with it and how the Earth Federation/Anaheim Electronics got their hands on it.

ex_necross said:
If you paid attention to the story, Banagher became the first true newtype at the end of the episode, also seen as basically an ascension to godhood. By definition, this literally means he is better than every other newtype to have ever existed. You can disagree all you want, but it is canon.

Ckan said:

See, this comes to the nuance about what a 'newtype' is. I never 'disagreed' with Banagher displaying prossibly the greatest feats of Newtype power, nor with him being a 'completed/perfected' Newtype.

The issues I was pointing at was that each Newtype has undergone different 'awakenings' and have caused different phenomenon at the height of their power - and it's not always clear as to whether this is solely by their individual power, or that of the people around them; often including a varying number of lesser newtypes.
Then, there's the technology aspect, where we're literally told that the Unicorn is the vehicle for 'finding' this 'true' newtype. The mechanics of this having not been laid out, it's quite possible to assume that given different pilots, (ie. Kamille, Judau, Amuro, Haman, Scirocco, etc.), we might have had other such awakenings.

Banagher undoubtedly became something above all else for a moment before returning, but on an individual basis, I question whether he's the single most 'powerful' newtype of them all.

ex_necross said:
I would have to say that a "perfect newtype" is probably the single most powerful, and we are told Banana is the only person to achieve that status (or the first person, maybe others followed).

skudoops said:
Banagher is a more powerful newtype while Amuro is a better pilot. One could even say that Unicorn (or any MS with psycho frame tech) could bridge the gap between their abilities because of this.

I'd like to say given their best equipment they are equal. But at his peak banagher was shutting down entire squads of mobile suits (or convincing them to stop, not really sure what happened there) so he might have the edge.



Probably someone from Zeon (they are the only ones who'd have a use for that). Maybe the flanangan institute? I do recall them researching the whole newtype phenomena.

Ckan said:

See, this comes to the nuance about what a 'newtype' is. I never "disagreed" with Banagher displaying quite possibly showing the greatest feats of Newtype power, and not at all with him being a 'completed/perfected' Newtype.

The issues I was pointing at was that each Newtype has undergone different 'awakenings' and have caused different phenomenon at the height of their power - and it's not always clear as to whether this is solely by their individual power, or that of the people around them; often including a varying number of lesser newtypes.
Then, there's the technology aspect, where we're literally told that the Unicorn is the vehicle for 'finding' this 'true' newtype. The mechanics of this having not been laid out, it's quite possible to assume that given different pilots, (ie. Kamille, Judau, Amuro, Haman, Scirocco, etc.), we might have had other such awakenings.

Banagher undoubtedly became something above all else for a moment before returning, but on an individual basis, I question whether he's the single most 'powerful' newtype of them all.

Ckan said:
So you're going to ignore my point? Ok. I try not to engage in debates with those that don't listen, so let's leave it be.

ex_necross said:


Well I mean what's to argue about the other part?

Yes, the technology obviously helped in finding and bringing to the surface his dormant abilities. Yes, technology gets better, and yes, Amuro did not have the Unicorn. Nobody can argue against that.

Does that discredit Banana though? Did he cheat to become the most powerful newtype? You'd have to make a damn good argument to convince me of that.

Champloo_Remix said:
You know I think a lot of could come down to Newtype potential from an evolutionary standpoint if we're taking the Zeon Deikun route. Banagher could've simply been the fully evolved space-adapted human being. It took time to get there (like all evolution does) Banagher might be the result of Newtype evolution reaching it's pinnacle. If you want to look at it like this too the little schtick on human evolution in this episode 7 when Banagher+Audrey are making their way to Syam Vist's chamber might be a sign that that's in fact what it is.

Champloo_Remix said:
So with that in mind what would've happened if Neo Zeon would have kept the psycho frame tech to themselves? Would things have turned out differently for Neo Zeon? More importantly would Char have succeeded in his goal and would the world/universe afterward have been a very different place?

ex_necross said:
Well I mean what's to argue about the other part?

Yes, the technology obviously helped in finding and bringing to the surface his dormant abilities. Yes, technology gets better, and yes, Amuro did not have the Unicorn. Nobody can argue against that.

Does that discredit Banana though? Did he cheat to become the most powerful newtype? You'd have to make a damn good argument to convince me of that.

ex_necross said:


Yeah, there's a lot to be speculated on how Banagher managed to achieve his status. But that's a different issue altogether. The question iirc was not how, just blunty IS Banagher a better newtype? I mean we know the answer to that, we know what he became.

Ckan said:

On the other-hand, we've been shown in the past that newtypes have varying levels of innate newtype 'capability'. These capabilities are then channelled through the various psycommu system to different effects.
However, once newtypes awaken, they're shown to have abilities independent of their suits and machinery. This is where the telepathy and precognition comes in, and I won't claim 100% recollection, but Banagher's instances don't quite compare to some of the events we've seen involving Amuro, Kamille, and Judau.
Therefore, I think it is an apt enough question to wonder how capable a newtype Banagher is comparatively and independent of the phenomena centred around RX Unicorn itself.

Champloo_Remix said:
The X Factor comes down to what if we put Amuro, Kamille, Judau, etc. in the Unicorn? To which of course we don't have an answer to.

Ckan said:
We could suppose that the Axis drop would have been successful. Goodbye Earth.

Indeed, and I myself am not arguing against your part. The abilities he and Unicorn possess are essentially unparalleled. He was certainly became the 'strongest' newtype at his peak. By him becoming a 'completed/perfect' newtype, we can assume that he has reached the furthest point a newtype can go.

On the other-hand, we've been shown in the past that newtypes have varying levels of innate newtype 'capability'. These capabilities are then channelled through the various psycommu system to different effects.
However, once newtypes awaken, they're shown to have abilities independent of their suits and machinery. This is where the telepathy and precognition comes in, and I won't claim 100% recall, but Banagher's instances don't quite compare to some of the events we've seen involving Amuro, Kamille, and Judau.
Therefore, I think it is an apt enough question to wonder how capable a newtype Banagher is comparatively and independent of the phenomena centred around RX Unicorn itself.

Ckan said:
^It's the biggest X factor, and yes, of course, it's a pendatic point. But, that's the fun/interest of it.
@ex_necross
And part of it is even more obfuscated because of the unclear variance between newtype powers.

Prior to his 'godly' ascension - which allowed him to completely disable things remotely, how powerful was Banagher exactly?

The solidifying/strengthening resonance between the Gundams could be seen as very similar if not identical to Kamille's waverider.

The blocking of the solar ray is probably most comparable to the Axis shock - both events involved physics-defying forces. Does it take more power to lift Axis out of fall, or to block, blunt, and absorb a solar ray? Both events also had axiliary participants - and it's probably fair to say that Banagher contributed a greater share relative to what Amuro contributed to the Axis shock.

So in-suit, Banagher definitely seems ascendant, although we can still question how much the suits come into it - how much a difference does 3 years make in psycommu tech? Probably a lot, in Universal Century terms, but possibly not.

Ckan said:
The blocking of the solar ray is probably most comparable to the Axis shock - both events involved physics-defying forces. Does it take more power to lift Axis out of fall, or to block, blunt, and absorb a solar ray?

ex_necross said:


I believe it's been said that the suit itself only allows it's pilot to bring about his or her power and helps them channel it, so that would be how much the suit comes into it. It doesn't give them anything they don't already have except a means to access it.

It's like how we can just google information instead of having to go to the library and search through a bunch of books to get the info.