judals said: keragamming said: judals said: keragamming said: This arc is so boring, It's mostly 80% talking and 20 percent fighting. But what's worst is the inner monologue and the narrator talking during the fights as if we're so dumb to not understand what's going on.The ant design is lame, the entire arc feels like filler to be honest. This arc is battling with greed island as the worst arc in the entire series. If it weren't for yorknew city this series would've been a 6 at best. I personally think hunter x hunter is overrated and that people only talk good about it, because it's so called well written. The big 3 is way more entertaining than this series. It also annoys me that people say this is the best shounen anime ever, really? This doesn't even come close to Yu Yu hackushoo, that series was entertaining throughout. I just hope after this arc ends we can get back to the phantom troupe which is the golden part to this series. Because it's not mindless action like the shows you mentioned. Again, the fact that you think narration is for explaining things for you is pretty dumb itself. Then what's a narrator then? Someone who narrates the story? Not necessarily explain it? But give a certain flavor/perspective to it. Point is, you preach about defending intelligence... Based on such a minsinterpretation ironically. Even when the narrator does speak about what is going on literally, it's merely asubstitute for the monologue that is ever present in every other shonen (but more informativeand doesnt break the pace). But more often he's not describing the same thing actually. Yea, yea. Bullshit! It's unnecessary and not needed in the series. It's fucking annoying. " Even when the narrator does speak about what is going on literally" You just contradict yourself with that sentence. Fail.... |
keragamming said: If you lack the ability to comprehend it is not my fault so... Too bad. Not necessary, if all you're looking for is action and other simple stuff. Then I totally agree, it becomes an annoynace. |
TyrelMay 9, 2014 5:38 AM
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judals said: L-Azuara said: If i may add, a narrator is truly amazing to make events exciting, However when it´s overused it becomes annoying. (IMO) Imo i dont view it grocery store-style. There is no specific amount to how much narration is required. If all the arc calls for it, then it should be always used. Same with books. It's part of the show, not an explanation of it. Yeah i guess thats true, the most dificult thing to forecast is; to entretain the audience and know when does the narrator shine and when does he need to step back and let the tide flow :D. |
L-Azuara said: judals said: L-Azuara said: If i may add, a narrator is truly amazing to make events exciting, However when it´s overused it becomes annoying. (IMO) Imo i dont view it grocery store-style. There is no specific amount to how much narration is required. If all the arc calls for it, then it should be always used. Same with books. It's part of the show, not an explanation of it. Yeah i guess thats true, the most dificult thing to forecast is; to entretain the audience and know when does the narrator shine and when does he need to step back and let the tide flow :D. Yeah but sometimes he needs to go full throttle. HxH showed 109 episodes where it needed no narration, so why now? Because it calls for it. Same with Gyro's story. |
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judals said: lol I knew you would come with that bullshit. Hunter x hunter is nothing that will make you have to wrap your brain around to understand it's quite simple. When a anime or manga keep me interested even without fights that's when you know the series is good. Hunter x hunter didn't do that for me. The ant arc feels like dbz with more talking. -__- |
TyrelMay 9, 2014 5:37 AM
keragamming said: And it did for most others. Of course it will seem like a simple show with inadequate numbers of fights if you view it without the rest. You not finding the subtleties does not disprove the others having done so. The last line proves my point. You think all the dialogue is charging and taunting. No wonder recent discussions are all questions about stuff they did not pay attention to. |
TyrelMay 9, 2014 5:37 AM
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lxixsxa said: keragamming said: lol I knew you would come with that bullshit. Hunter x hunter is nothing that will make you have to wrap your brain around to understand it's quite simple. When a anime or manga keep me interested even without fights that's when you know the series is good. Hunter x hunter didn't do that for me. The ant arc feels like dbz with more talking. -__- ‘dbz with more talking’ interesting...sorry,i can't help laughing. Yep, that's how I think of the ant arc. Talk and more talk, little fight then back to more talking and annoying narrator to make it even worse. |
| This is definitely one of the best arcs in HxH, the Chimera Ant arc is amazing and the ending for it will tear you up at least by a bit. The ending should come after the proper final fight, which I completely forgot about lol after watching episode 128. |
JCDRANZERMay 9, 2014 6:16 AM
judals said: Even when the narrator does speak about what is going on literally, it's merely asubstitute for the monologue that is ever present in every other shonen (but more informativeand doesnt break the pace). I would agree with that if this arc didn't have its fair load of monologues. Don't get me started on Welfinn, Pouf or Knuckle... Gon is probably the only character in this arc who didn't get some inner monologues. And another problem appear when the narrator is basically retelling with other words what the guy already said in that inner monologue just before. And the narrator does break the pace. |
| Did Gon ever had a monologue before in any arc? I can't remember. |
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tsudecimo said: Did Gon ever had a monologue before in any arc? I can't remember. I was wondering this myself, if he has any they are probably few. In Chimera Ant, when he's with Killua it always seems to be more from Killua's pov, as he gets all the monologues and so on. Even in Gon's scenes so far with Pitou, she is the one who we follow the thoughts of. I was thinking the idea was to play on his unpredictable nature, particularly in this arc, by not showing his thoughts. But, I really can't think of any past moments where he had a monologue. |
| "Yes, I have been deprived of emotion. But not completely. Whoever did it, botched the job." - Geralt of Rivia |
insan3Spectre said: tsudecimo said: Did Gon ever had a monologue before in any arc? I can't remember. I was wondering this myself, if he has any they are probably few. In Chimera Ant, when he's with Killua it always seems to be more from Killua's pov, as he gets all the monologues and so on. Even in Gon's scenes so far with Pitou, she is the one who we follow the thoughts of. I was thinking the idea was to play on his unpredictable nature, particularly in this arc, by not showing his thoughts. But, I really can't think of any past moments where he had a monologue. Yeah. My guess is that it's played for unpredictability like you said, or to make him a different protagonist. This why Killua feels more like a protagonist than Gon to me, not only because of his inner monologues, but because of the type of focus he receives compared to Gon, having an actual internal struggle and conflict and having important events about Gon, told from Killua's pov instead and plus he is not as unpredictable and crazy as Gon. This is why I thought, as do many others of the possibility of Gon dying and Killua becoming the protagonist of the series, it would contradict with the premise of the series but it would have been really an interesting experiment imo. It still might happen for all we know, the direction the manga is heading is certainly hard to predict. |
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| "Chimera Ant Arc Sucks ? " PFFFFF HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Next complain, please. |
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SetsukoHara said: judals said: Even when the narrator does speak about what is going on literally, it's merely asubstitute for the monologue that is ever present in every other shonen (but more informativeand doesnt break the pace). I would agree with that if this arc didn't have its fair load of monologues. Don't get me started on Welfinn, Pouf or Knuckle... Gon is probably the only character in this arc who didn't get some inner monologues. And another problem appear when the narrator is basically retelling with other words what the guy already said in that inner monologue just before. And the narrator does break the pace. The net result would be the same, but in other shonen it would all be some filler talk about how impressive that attack is or how much someone will surely beat the main character. Breaking the pace is subjective in that sense, but the fact is: the narrator exists out of the story universe, so he does not actually stop the pace e.g the world doesnt completely pause for a character to talk, it gives the idea everything else is still playing during the talk. This show goes the extra mile to distribute monologues and narration where fit for most of the scenes instead of lazily deciding on one or a certain alternation of the two. Examples of the retelling part? |
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tsudecimo said: Did Gon ever had a monologue before in any arc? I can't remember. Only when he is fighting like in his fight against bomber guy and episode 99 when he was wondering what was wrong with Killua. Thats all I can remember.. |
| ''We don't know what kind of people we truly are until the moment before our deaths. As death comes to embrace you, you will realise what you are. That's what death is, don't you think?'' - Uchiha Itachi |
judals said: The net result would be the same, but in other shonen it would all be some filler talk about how impressive that attack is or how much someone will surely beat the main character. But, here, we get filler narration about how Knuckle can't hold his tear when we can see it, of filler narration about Pitou releasing his En and trying to spot Netero and Zeno when again I can perfectly see it. judals said: Breaking the pace is subjective in that sense, but the fact is: the narrator exists out of the story universe, so he does not actually stop the pace e.g the world doesnt completely pause for a character to talk, it gives the idea everything else is still playing during the talk. Subjective, indeed, to me in the end, it's completely the same, you still got someone interrupting the scene, and so breaking the pace. judals said: This show goes the extra mile to distribute monologues and narration where fit for most of the scenes instead of lazily deciding on one or a certain alternation of the two. How is it less lazy? judals said: Examples of the retelling part? This and this in more indirect way. But basically, a great number of time when you have inner monologue closely followed by a narration or vice-versa. |
SetsukoHara said: judals said: The net result would be the same, but in other shonen it would all be some filler talk about how impressive that attack is or how much someone will surely beat the main character. But, here, we get filler narration about how Knuckle can't hold his tear when we can see it, of filler narration about Pitou releasing his En and trying to spot Netero and Zeno when again I can perfectly see it. judals said: Breaking the pace is subjective in that sense, but the fact is: the narrator exists out of the story universe, so he does not actually stop the pace e.g the world doesnt completely pause for a character to talk, it gives the idea everything else is still playing during the talk. Subjective, indeed, to me in the end, it's completely the same, you still got someone interrupting the scene, and so breaking the pace. judals said: This show goes the extra mile to distribute monologues and narration where fit for most of the scenes instead of lazily deciding on one or a certain alternation of the two. How is it less lazy? judals said: Examples of the retelling part? This and this in more indirect way. But basically, a great number of time when you have inner monologue closely followed by a narration or vice-versa. In all three examples, the problem is you assume its purpose is explanation. So ultimately, you don't really "perfectly see it". And also, I can show you that every show does it even more. For example, in Pitou's scene, you are just picking random texts out of the grander context. The purpose of the narration in that part, was not to reiterate what happened, but to emphasize the slowing of time, and the fact that this decision was all out of instinct of pitou rather than "sensing" it, almso emphasized by and in turn explaining Terpsichora, again, not ultimately "perfectly seeing it" You're following the whole "youpi is mad" interpretation of the scenes. So, I suggest understanding the scene fully before judging how simple it is. It's like saying an equation is simple because you decided to neglect many factors. How is it not lazy? Reread the quote you asked this question to. Random assignment of style vs. having it fittingly tailored depending on the scenes... Hmmm. |
GrunbeldMay 9, 2014 10:12 AM
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SaSa-Zoldyck said: tsudecimo said: Did Gon ever had a monologue before in any arc? I can't remember. Only when he is fighting like in his fight against bomber guy and episode 99 when he was wondering what was wrong with Killua. Thats all I can remember.. I think he had one about Hisoka? I don't remember the GI one because it's been more than 5 years since I watched the OVA. I also don't remember episode 99. I guess he only has few, which is not a necessarily bad thing. |
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TonyTonyStark said: Well, more often than not following a convention while it may be enjoyable can be seen as not-so-good writing. Like I said, being different just for the sake of being different while not being coherent is the reason this "not inherently a good thing" argument exists. But I don't see how this case is any less of a showing of great and unique capabilities. Maybe you are simplifying the youpi is mad too much, or looking at it from a very narrow scope. I think it does indeed add some depth. Take the whole narration into account. I simply viewed it for what it is presented, and it presented nothing new. There was no "depth" to Youpi is mad, certainly nothing I couldn't see for myself. The portions where the narration adds depth is the confrontation between the King and Netero. Nothing else was really outstanding. |
| "Let Justice Be Done!" My Theme Fight again, fight again for justice! |
| Yea but you not seeing it personally does not dictate that it does not exist. Still you are viewing it through a very narrow scope which might not help. |
judals said: I guess it's unfortunate that the slowing of time was pretty obvious as well, and only a few lines were really needed to show that. To claim any sort of "depth" for such obvious narration is to treat yourself as a child that needs to be spoonfed what is going on. The narrator was definitely needed for some scenes during the invasion, but there were definitely many unnecessary bits thrown in. The narration for Pitou crying after seeing the King holding Komugi is an example of a scene where the narration was necessary. Youpi being mad or Knuckle revealing himself were definitely not. Mod Edit: Fixed quote chain; please use spoiler tags or trim your quotes |
TyrelMay 9, 2014 11:58 PM
| "Let Justice Be Done!" My Theme Fight again, fight again for justice! |
| for me it's GI the worst arc in HxH 2011. I actually liked GI in the OVAs of the 1999 version though. |
RedRoseFring said: if slowing time was only an action effect, but you truly are missing the thematic and narrative points presented here. That's like saying the whole journey to finding one piece is unnecessary, just some panel of finding it is enough. You're treating any sort of detail in itself against a show as spoonfeeding. Valaskjalf said: for me it's GI the worst arc in HxH 2011. I actually liked GI in the OVAs of the 1999 version though. I loved the OVAs, pretty underrated, but the new GI isnt bad at all too |
JeavMay 9, 2014 8:34 PM
TonyTonyStark said: I've said it before and I'll say it again: I could care less for themes...that is themes are not enough to carry a narrative for me. If the sequence of events themselves are uninteresting, the theme will not be enough to save it. But please, go ahead and elaborate on the "thematic" points I'm missing from the slowing down of time? And also, what I'm missing from "Youpi was mad". |
| "Let Justice Be Done!" My Theme Fight again, fight again for justice! |
RedRoseFring said: Well if you have the opinion of indifference toward themes and the storytelling he's trying to tell, fine, bur you cannot really claim what most of is are seeing does not exist.TonyTonyStark said: I've said it before and I'll say it again: I could care less for themes...that is themes are not enough to carry a narrative for me. If the sequence of events themselves are uninteresting, the theme will not be enough to save it. But please, go ahead and elaborate on the "thematic" points I'm missing from the slowing down of time? And also, what I'm missing from "Youpi was mad". What you are missing lies outside of your limited scope, as I said. Care to give the entire quote? |
RedRoseFring said: Yet, wasn't included in the anime.The narration for Pitou crying after seeing the King holding Komugi is an example of a scene where the narration was necessary. http://www.batoto.net/read/_/20900/hunter-x-hunter_ch268_by_nexgear/6 (Middle three panels.) |
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TonyTonyStark said: RedRoseFring said: Well if you have the opinion of indifference toward themes and the storytelling he's trying to tell, fine, bur you cannot really claim what most of is are seeing does not exist.TonyTonyStark said: I've said it before and I'll say it again: I could care less for themes...that is themes are not enough to carry a narrative for me. If the sequence of events themselves are uninteresting, the theme will not be enough to save it. But please, go ahead and elaborate on the "thematic" points I'm missing from the slowing down of time? And also, what I'm missing from "Youpi was mad". What you are missing lies outside of your limited scope, as I said. Care to give the entire quote? It's the link in Setsuko's comment: I'm not in the mood to start hunting down episode numbers and such, but that is a clear enough example. |
RedRoseFringMay 9, 2014 3:54 PM
| "Let Justice Be Done!" My Theme Fight again, fight again for justice! |
GalekC said: RedRoseFring said: Yet, wasn't included in the anime.The narration for Pitou crying after seeing the King holding Komugi is an example of a scene where the narration was necessary. http://www.batoto.net/read/_/20900/hunter-x-hunter_ch268_by_nexgear/6 (Middle three panels.) It was included in the anime. The narrator specifically mentioned that Pitou was moved by the King's compassion for such a lowly creature. |
| "Let Justice Be Done!" My Theme Fight again, fight again for justice! |
RedRoseFring said: TonyTonyStark said: RedRoseFring said: Well if you have the opinion of indifference toward themes and the storytelling he's trying to tell, fine, bur you cannot really claim what most of is are seeing does not exist.TonyTonyStark said: I've said it before and I'll say it again: I could care less for themes...that is themes are not enough to carry a narrative for me. If the sequence of events themselves are uninteresting, the theme will not be enough to save it. But please, go ahead and elaborate on the "thematic" points I'm missing from the slowing down of time? And also, what I'm missing from "Youpi was mad". What you are missing lies outside of your limited scope, as I said. Care to give the entire quote? It's the link in Setsuko's comment: I'm not in the mood to start hunting down episode numbers and such, but that is a clear enough example. Well hunting episodes and numbers is what you actually need to proge the point so.. I guess it's stale until then. That link also is of narrow view itself, you must have interpreter the narration as "knuckle had to reveal himself" as some sort of obvious revelation I presume. |
TonyTonyStark said: I am not talking about obvious revelations, but simply addressing the claim that all the narration adds "depth". And how is the link narrow? It is drawn directly from the manga itself (and the anime did a similar thing). A quick look on Youtube gave this example At the end, narrator is simply repeating what has happened. Of course if you can find some "depth" to it, go ahead. Mod Edit: Modified quote tower; please spoiler or remove old quotes. |
JeavMay 9, 2014 8:35 PM
| "Let Justice Be Done!" My Theme Fight again, fight again for justice! |
RedRoseFring said: Wait so, it was just a end-of-the-episode cliffhanger commentary that every anime does? Doesnt seem complain worthy even if I found no depth. But then again, this is one of the scenes that forwahadow the Rose, so plenty of depth to go around. Also, the narrator's implied point was that Knuckle abandoned his post or original mission, that he is starting to let his emotiojs sway him, that he might endanger the group, which is also foreshadowing in itseld to what transpires after. not simply "he revealed himself", this is the type subtlety I loved about the narration personally. For what it means for the future and meaning behind it, what ut truly emphasizes, not what it presents at the mean time! But everything subtle is obvious in retrospect, so no point in dismissing that now, long as you people simply saw it that way, I'd say it worked. Mod Edit: Modified quote tower; please spoiler or remove old quotes. |
JeavMay 9, 2014 8:36 PM
TonyTonyStark said: Literally none of that was "deep" or couldn't be told from what was shown on screen. I also fail to see how it foreshadowed anything except making abroad statement which is not foreshadowing as it was already clear that the group was in danger. Mod Edit: Fixed quote chain; please use spoiler tags or trim your quotes |
TyrelMay 9, 2014 11:59 PM
| "Let Justice Be Done!" My Theme Fight again, fight again for justice! |
RedRoseFring said: Couldn't be told? Then why did you fail to see it until I pointed it out? To you it was just knuckle revealing himself and the narrator declaring that knuckld had revealed himself redundantly. As expected you are retrospectively pretending it was obvious yet failed no mention any of this beforehand. That is how subtle things work. I will leave the two foreshadowing scenes to you. Surely someone as attentive as yourself would need no help from someone who likes 'spoonfeeding' such as myself. Mod Edit: Fixed quote chain; please use spoiler tags or trim your quotes |
TyrelMay 9, 2014 11:59 PM
TonyTonyStark said: RedRoseFring said: Couldn't be told? Then why did you fail to see it until I pointed it out? To you it was just knuckle revealing himself and the narrator declaring that knuckld had revealed himself redundantly. As expected you are retrospectively pretending it was obvious yet failed no mention any of this beforehand. That is how subtle things work. I will leave the two foreshadowing scenes to you. Surely someone as attentive as yourself would need no help from someone who likes 'spoonfeeding' such as myself. Mod Edit: Fixed quote chain; please use spoiler tags or trim your quotes Um....I didn't fail to see anything O_O. Knuckle endangering the mission was obvious (unless you literally fell asleep during the previous 3 episodes when they went over the invasion plan over and over and over again). I see no reason to have mentioned: "Hey guys, the narrator repeating that Knuckle revealed himself was redundant, but what you guys didn't know was that Knuckle was endangering the mission....since he was disobeying orders....becuase you guys would have missed that without the narration of course." In fact, I'll set out a challenge for anyone to come forward and claim that they couldn't tell that Knuckle was endangering the mission by revealing himself. Anyone at all. And you are yet to mention these "foreshadowing scenes" you keep on referring to. It seems to me that you are just treating the obvious as something that is somehow subtle or "deep". Edit: also, the point about the slowing down of time being a "thematic" point is yet to be addressed, or have we given up on that? |
| "Let Justice Be Done!" My Theme Fight again, fight again for justice! |
RedRoseFring said: TonyTonyStark said: RedRoseFring said: Couldn't be told? Then why did you fail to see it until I pointed it out? To you it was just knuckle revealing himself and the narrator declaring that knuckld had revealed himself redundantly. As expected you are retrospectively pretending it was obvious yet failed no mention any of this beforehand. That is how subtle things work. I will leave the two foreshadowing scenes to you. Surely someone as attentive as yourself would need no help from someone who likes 'spoonfeeding' such as myself. Mod Edit: Fixed quote chain; please use spoiler tags or trim your quotes Um....I didn't fail to see anything O_O. Knuckle endangering the mission was obvious (unless you literally fell asleep during the previous 3 episodes when they went over the invasion plan over and over and over again). I see no reason to have mentioned: "Hey guys, the narrator repeating that Knuckle revealed himself was redundant, but what you guys didn't know was that Knuckle was endangering the mission....since he was disobeying orders....becuase you guys would have missed that without the narration of course." In fact, I'll set out a challenge for anyone to come forward and claim that they couldn't tell that Knuckle was endangering the mission by revealing himself. Anyone at all. And you are yet to mention these "foreshadowing scenes" you keep on referring to. It seems to me that you are just treating the obvious as something that is somehow subtle or "deep". Edit: also, the point about the slowing down of time being a "thematic" point is yet to be addressed, or have we given up on that? But you failed to see that the meaning behind that line was to imply the beginning of that. Whether it was obvious without the narration is irrelevant, it would unfold soon of course, but the narrator's implication is what's lost on you. Sure, the net result would be the same minus the narration, but such artistic additions give it more depth, and more to think on about the quote itself, if not what happens afterward[\b] Did you think it was redundant for the narrator to say that Ace vs Blackbeard would lead to something big? This was more of the same, albeit a bit more subtle. Your saying it was obvious after I pointed it out does not hold much weight, when you never mentioned it before. I will leave the foreshadowing part unanswered to prove my point above. Can you point out the foreshadowing parts yourself? If I answer now, you would say you always knew what I meant but 'saw no reason to mention'. I don't see the thematic point being refuted, so I assumed you'd given up on it. What is your counterpoint anyway? |
TonyTonyStark said: How? The narrator's "implication" was not lost on me. You're kind of dragging out a pointless issue. It is common sense that someone doing what they're not supposed to will cause problems. Heck, I don't think anyone could have been disillusioned to that fact. You are treating it like something that does not require common sense or a viewer could somehow miss. What exactly was the "more to think on." "Knuckle is disobeying orders, so there will be trouble." What more is besides that? Now you are just repeating the same thing without offering anything new, just like the narration. This should be simple. You said there is depth, so show something that the viewer wouldn't have gotten without the narration. The fact that there would be problems was common sense (or at least now I hope so...) Of course. Now you are almost straying off topic. I never brought up One Piece here, but it does the same thing. Almost every series that includes narration includes redundant points now and then. I never mentioned it precisely because it was obvious. Stating: "Pouf has wings" wouldn't help me iterate any point when that should be obvious. It doesn't work that way. My claim was that obvious narration like "Knuckle revealed himself" or "youpi was mad" doesn't foreshadow anything. I can't give an example of something I'm saying isn't there. The narration for the slowing down of time had no thematic relevance. Simple as that. Mod Edit: Put spoiler tags because of massive texts being argued |
TyrelMay 10, 2014 12:32 PM
| "Let Justice Be Done!" My Theme Fight again, fight again for justice! |
RedRoseFring said: Do you still fail to see the implication even now after I pointed it out? Well thanks for pointing the obvious, while missing the obvious. Yes it is common sense, but if we go about this simplistic and minimalist logic, there'd be nothing poetic or thematic in any medium. As was the case here. No, I'm treating it like something that requires to see an eye for artistic touches and detail. What is more, is that you missed the narrator's implication within that quote, and interpreted simply as "knuckle decided to show himself". So maybe you're missing my points, just like the narration's. I'm only addressing the examples you pointed out as "obvious", and my answer would be as it was: The implications. But 90% of the rest of narration is self-explanatory, as the narration talks about things not visibile to the viewer. Like how Killua was only pretending to give that speech to Palm, or the narration's analysis of what really would be the outcomes of Pouf vs Morel, which seem to counter Pouf's own monologues. I know. I did. It's a good example. And while both might superficially seem like captain obvious to you, what they implied, and their placement itself is what warranted their existence. Again, I would ask of the completel scene of the Pouf has wings part. Seems like another narrow-scope viewing of yours. Which is my point. You're not seeing it. That the quotes and the scene where the quotes happened, were more than those sentences.But you were so distracted by thinking how obvious they are you missed the rest. You can't see something you're not looking for. Simply put: One showing of your misunderstanding, is your misconception that this sort of narration is there to explain something to you, and so when you realize you already know that thing is happening, you find that the narration served no purpose. A point people already said, to give credit. But if you're really interested in my own answer, I made a thread about it. It does to me. Your counterpoint is that you did not see it. That to you, the slowing of time was merely an action effect. Well I'm sorry to hear that. To me, as narrated, it made me think of all the warrior talk seeing eye-to-eye with each other and even sharing the thoughts at the time, the entire narration of that part, the slowing of time, was leading up to how Pitou heard Netero's epic "Bad move, little ant". Very artistic and enjoyable to me, I found. Mod Edit: Put spoiler tags because of massive texts being argued |
TyrelMay 10, 2014 12:31 PM
TonyTonyStark said: Ugh! I'm not going to play games. Your "implications" are common sense. A 10 year old could see that. Common sense =/= subtle and deep. Poetic? Now I'm on the verge of laughing. "Knuckle has revealed himself." The poetry there is literally 2deep4 me. Well, this may just be one of your problems. Not everyone cares for poetry or sees poetry in every single thing. Sometimes a piece of wood is just a piece of wood. Implying any sort of "artistic" touch can be done for literally anything. Heck, Inferno Cop had "artistic renderings of Marvel Comics characters. Come on. You've got to be kidding me at this point Tony. What you are saying is that I took a statement like "Pouf has wings" but didn't have the common sense to discern that that means he can fly. One comes naturally with the other. You don;t need any special revelation to figure out that someone who falls into a pool is going to be wet after or that someone who breaks their legs can't walk. I can't stress this enough: it is COMMON SENSE!! Then you are treating this as a joke. To imply that common sense implications somehow mean "depth" is an insult to base intelligence. "A tree is burning." The implications of a burning tree is that it will be reduced to ash. Just because someone doesn't mention what will happen after doesn't mean that it is somehow "deep." If you cannot grasp from that sentence alone that the tree will be no more, I'd question your ability to apply sense. And I never disagreed with this (you always seem to misinterpret my statements.) This all started because I called out the claim that ALL the narration is necessary. A large part of it IS necessary, but definitely not all. To claim otherwise is to try and blindly defend a moot point. Really? Well here you go: "All the Royal Guards have different features. Pouf has wings. He surveys the area around the palace." Does extending that statement make it any less redundant to mention something so obvious? Of course not. "Pouf has wings" remains a redundant statement, no matter how "narrow" you claim the scope is. Oh! Sorry! I forgot the narration was there to make it "artistic" -_-. Regardless of intention, it is still redundant. To say otherwise means that there is NO useless narration in any and all series on the planet since you can come up with whatever ridiculous reason for its presence you like. Literally none of that is even relevant to the slowing down of time for Pitou catching up to Netero and Zeno. You went off on a tangent. You are talking of a completely different scene (which also had no thematic relevance to the arc). Mod Edit: Put spoiler tags because of massive texts being argued |
TyrelMay 10, 2014 12:32 PM
| "Let Justice Be Done!" My Theme Fight again, fight again for justice! |
RedRoseFring said: Well then, you missed that "common sense". Yes. But so many also laugh about many poems because they fail to see it in a different light than what they see. Well, that's what I meant by depth. Not everyone can or cares to see it. So many might simplify it the way you do. Oh no, you have some very amazing skills in discerning that. Although, I question the skills that brought you to think it was something to discern in the first place. As well as the skills that made you look at the sentence in such a narrow view, without the contextualization. Same as above, it's your failure to see the purpose of the line, that makes you see it as a misplaced redundancy. Yet you failed to see what that quote implied in the first place. I claim otherwise. How is it a moot point when you cannot begin to discern them right? When most the questions that popped up the last few episodes were answered in this so-called useless part of narration? I asked for the entire quote, what chapter/episode? Regardless of intention? Who makes up these rules? And those intentions led to content. So... How so? I already explained how and your counter is "nope". Mod Edit: Put spoiler tags because of massive texts being argued |
TyrelMay 10, 2014 12:32 PM
| Thread cleaned again and put constant quotes under spoilers to make it more cleaner. If you're gonna argue a bunch of points, then please use the spoiler tags on said persons text; like what I did. |
TyrelMay 10, 2014 4:59 PM
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| Yo, prepare your butts for a tl;dr. This is my very first post in MAL, but I figured after getting up to speed on HxH I'd see what everyone was thinking about it thus far, as I had a few gripes with it. Turns out, this thread exists, so I'm not the only one. This could probably be retooled as a review, but as I feel it ties in with the discussion, it might be best suited here. It's safe to say that this post will contain spoilers. I burned through the anime this past week and it's freaking phenomenal. The moment I knew I was hooked was when they had that first "mind-battle" with the prisoners during the exam. It was clear that the show focused more on the psychology of facing challenges versus simply having the proper tools to win a battle. From the first episode to Yorknew, this remained consistent. Enter Greed Island, and the series started to "feel" different. It's hard to explain, but the charm from the first few seasons was starting to dissipate, and it felt as though the viewer was being left out of the characters' "plans". The absence of the characters we just spent time developing (Leorio and Kurapika in particular) felt like wasted potential. In Heaven's Arena, they were at least relevant to the point where we knew what they were up to, but it felt now as though they were being forgotten - without explanation - and replaced by new, less interesting characters. That being said, seeing the training with Bisky and the alliance with Hisoka were great segments. It's not that this arc was necessarily any worse than the others from a design standpoint, but when you have an entire season focused on Kurapika and then have him nowhere to be found, the entirety of the story feels disjointed and I start caring less about all characters as a whole because I no longer know who to focus on. Luckily, the Chimera Ants arc makes it clear that Gon and Killua are the focus... in fact, it makes a lot of things clear, but we'll get to that later. First off, the ants literally come out of nowhere. I don't mean to compare, but typically when you're building up to such supposedly iconic villains, there should be the subtlest of buildups in the previous seasons to start garnering interest. The ants appear out of thin air, Gon completely dismisses finding Ging the moment he meets Kite, and just like that, it's as if Accompany teleports our heroes to an entirely new anime altogether. Think back to the Phantom Troupe. Constantly in the first couple of seasons their existence is hinted at and alluded to, but we never get to truly see them. That build up is extremely effective, and when we DO get to see them, it pays off because they're just as ruthless as we thought they'd be, if not more. Then, Kurapika kills one of them, and shit literally shoots out of our booties because we thought such a feat was impossible. That's an enemy for you. I can honestly say that apart from the King, I didn't care for a single one of the ants, as whenever they died (again, apart from the King), there was no pay off. If there was more build up, maybe suggesting that other hunters were investigating a "threat" down in NGL in earlier seasons, then it would have been a bit more effective. But seriously, you don't get to just throw giant, talking, flying, malicious ants out of left field and expect us to catch it no problem. On top of that, the rest of the primary cast is essentially non-existent, which DOES play out somewhat in that Gon and Killua get some very powerful character development moments, but it doesn't justify the absence of the others without explanation. Additionally, Nen becomes this excuse to do whatever the hell they want, rather than something that has to be earned and used properly. All that explanation of this sweet, mythical, energy, was now put to waste. Now, prior to the palace, it wasn't hard to look over these flaws, but it felt like as soon as we started the "mission", faith in the viewers' comprehension was lost entirely. This new character "the narrator" comes out from closet and proceeds to undermine everything that made the anime great, bringing us back to the mind-battles. Come on. All throughout this show we've got to see characters learning how deal with their enemies and think both in the moment and outside of the box in order to face the challenge in front of them. The show "felt" great early on because as a viewer, we got to piece a lot of this together ourselves. Now we have a narrator literally going over not only what's in the characters' heads (which, if had to be done, should be done by them as it always has been up to this point), but the obvious crap that never had to be previously explained, too. It's like some strange level of arrogance the show gets about having to explain everything to us because it doesn't trust that we can comprehend the actions taking place on-screen. The moment that I started actually noticing this narrator was the moment I slowly stopped respecting the show. That. Being. Said. The CAA is still fairly decent in terms of the themes it touches upon. I haven't ever seen a "sense of identity" been explored on a thematic level before, and all of the character developments, arcs, fights, and dialog are still top notch. It's all in how it was presented. Everything just feels forced and underwhelming due to the grueling divergence in pacing from the otherwise perfect pacing it had before. If I were to describe it in one word, I'd say that this season has been disappointing. I'm legitimately shocked that the show could change so drastically so quickly. Anyway, if anyone read through that, I'd love if they could shed some light as to why all of this may be. It feels so different that I'm wondering if there was some behind the scenes type of ordeal similar to DB's Buu Saga where it was forced to be constructed a certain way without genuine inspiration. Still a solid anime, it just feels like this season doesn't fit in as well as it could have. |
JordyJS said: Yo, prepare your butts for a tl;dr. This is my very first post in MAL, but I figured after getting up to speed on HxH I'd see what everyone was thinking about it thus far, as I had a few gripes with it. Turns out, this thread exists, so I'm not the only one. This could probably be retooled as a review, but as I feel it ties in with the discussion, it might be best suited here. It's safe to say that this post will contain spoilers. I burned through the anime this past week and it's freaking phenomenal. The moment I knew I was hooked was when they had that first "mind-battle" with the prisoners during the exam. It was clear that the show focused more on the psychology of facing challenges versus simply having the proper tools to win a battle. From the first episode to Yorknew, this remained consistent. Enter Greed Island, and the series started to "feel" different. It's hard to explain, but the charm from the first few seasons was starting to dissipate, and it felt as though the viewer was being left out of the characters' "plans". The absence of the characters we just spent time developing (Leorio and Kurapika in particular) felt like wasted potential. In Heaven's Arena, they were at least relevant to the point where we knew what they were up to, but it felt now as though they were being forgotten - without explanation - and replaced by new, less interesting characters. That being said, seeing the training with Bisky and the alliance with Hisoka were great segments. It's not that this arc was necessarily any worse than the others from a design standpoint, but when you have an entire season focused on Kurapika and then have him nowhere to be found, the entirety of the story feels disjointed and I start caring less about all characters as a whole because I no longer know who to focus on. Luckily, the Chimera Ants arc makes it clear that Gon and Killua are the focus... in fact, it makes a lot of things clear, but we'll get to that later. First off, the ants literally come out of nowhere. I don't mean to compare, but typically when you're building up to such supposedly iconic villains, there should be the subtlest of buildups in the previous seasons to start garnering interest. The ants appear out of thin air, Gon completely dismisses finding Ging the moment he meets Kite, and just like that, it's as if Accompany teleports our heroes to an entirely new anime altogether. Think back to the Phantom Troupe. Constantly in the first couple of seasons their existence is hinted at and alluded to, but we never get to truly see them. That build up is extremely effective, and when we DO get to see them, it pays off because they're just as ruthless as we thought they'd be, if not more. Then, Kurapika kills one of them, and shit literally shoots out of our booties because we thought such a feat was impossible. That's an enemy for you. I can honestly say that apart from the King, I didn't care for a single one of the ants, as whenever they died (again, apart from the King), there was no pay off. If there was more build up, maybe suggesting that other hunters were investigating a "threat" down in NGL in earlier seasons, then it would have been a bit more effective. But seriously, you don't get to just throw giant, talking, flying, malicious ants out of left field and expect us to catch it no problem. On top of that, the rest of the primary cast is essentially non-existent, which DOES play out somewhat in that Gon and Killua get some very powerful character development moments, but it doesn't justify the absence of the others without explanation. Additionally, Nen becomes this excuse to do whatever the hell they want, rather than something that has to be earned and used properly. All that explanation of this sweet, mythical, energy, was now put to waste. Now, prior to the palace, it wasn't hard to look over these flaws, but it felt like as soon as we started the "mission", faith in the viewers' comprehension was lost entirely. This new character "the narrator" comes out from closet and proceeds to undermine everything that made the anime great, bringing us back to the mind-battles. Come on. All throughout this show we've got to see characters learning how deal with their enemies and think both in the moment and outside of the box in order to face the challenge in front of them. The show "felt" great early on because as a viewer, we got to piece a lot of this together ourselves. Now we have a narrator literally going over not only what's in the characters' heads (which, if had to be done, should be done by them as it always has been up to this point), but the obvious crap that never had to be previously explained, too. It's like some strange level of arrogance the show gets about having to explain everything to us because it doesn't trust that we can comprehend the actions taking place on-screen. The moment that I started actually noticing this narrator was the moment I slowly stopped respecting the show. That. Being. Said. The CAA is still fairly decent in terms of the themes it touches upon. I haven't ever seen a "sense of identity" been explored on a thematic level before, and all of the character developments, arcs, fights, and dialog are still top notch. It's all in how it was presented. Everything just feels forced and underwhelming due to the grueling divergence in pacing from the otherwise perfect pacing it had before. If I were to describe it in one word, I'd say that this season has been disappointing. I'm legitimately shocked that the show could change so drastically so quickly. Anyway, if anyone read through that, I'd love if they could shed some light as to why all of this may be. It feels so different that I'm wondering if there was some behind the scenes type of ordeal similar to DB's Buu Saga where it was forced to be constructed a certain way without genuine inspiration. Still a solid anime, it just feels like this season doesn't fit in as well as it could have. Well I agree with most of what you're saying. Personally, I enjoyed the Greed Island Arc. It wasn't perfect, and it was a bit too convenient but I liked it. Also, I felt like the ending was cut off as Gon doesn't go back to see Leorio and Kiripika, get his monetary reward or buy back his hunter's licence. Now on to the Chimera ant Arc. I'm currently at ep 120. The first four episodes were boring as hell. I couldn't believe how much time was spent showing a pregnant ant in the dark eating fish and such. Also, Kite's followers really don't develop much as characters and they mostly disappear from the story as soon as they enter the country where the Chimera Ants are. Kite's character was built up very poorly in my opinion. I had virtually no attachment to him when The story of the Chimera Ant arc had the potential to be amazing. However, it seemed to me like a first draft from a really talented person. What I mean by that is no matter how talented you are its almost impossible to make a masterpiece without a significant amount of editing. So, in short, it's just sloppy. Yes, I'm enjoying it now that I'm finally getting into it but it could have been done so much better. As for the narrator I'm on the fence as to whether I like it. I'm kind of annoyed because I think the fansubs are translating some things wrong because I can't understand some things no matter how many times I read them over. And yes, you all have a point about "showing not telling." The anime should show us what the characters are thinking and feeling and the narrator should not be as heavily used as it is in this arc. |
JordyJS said: First off, the ants literally come out of nowhere. I don't mean to compare, but typically when you're building up to such supposedly iconic villains, there should be the subtlest of buildups in the previous seasons to start garnering interest. The ants appear out of thin air, Gon completely dismisses finding Ging the moment he meets Kite, and just like that, it's as if Accompany teleports our heroes to an entirely new anime altogether. Gon doesn't dismiss his search for Ging. He met Kite. Gon was excited to meet someone that was well-respected by his dad. In the manga, it actually shows the flashback he had with Kite in Chapter ONE -- at the very beginning. Gon was met with a circumstance. He wasn't just going to say, "screw this, I'm going to see my dad." Especially not when this is the guy who saved him from being mauled to death. Point is, Kite meant a lot to Gon (and is part of why the CA arc is so awesome). I felt the same way but I didn't see it as a "new anime". Gon is on a freaking adventure to meet his dad and he's just at a different chapter in that journey. Same thing with Greed Island, that arc was to develop Gon & Killua's strengths and to lead Gon closer to Ging (or so we thought). Again, just because it feels new doesn't mean it doesn't belong in HxH. I can honestly say that apart from the King, I didn't care for a single one of the ants, as whenever they died (again, apart from the King), there was no pay off. If there was more build up, maybe suggesting that other hunters were investigating a "threat" down in NGL in earlier seasons, then it would have been a bit more effective. But seriously, you don't get to just throw giant, talking, flying, malicious ants out of left field and expect us to catch it no problem. I think you not caring for them just points out how they're just ants (which will be emphasized near the end of arc, trust me). Idk how far you are in the arc but there will be A LOT of development for the main Ants, the Royal Guards, and even the traitors. On top of that, the rest of the primary cast is essentially non-existent, which DOES play out somewhat in that Gon and Killua get some very powerful character development moments, but it doesn't justify the absence of the others without explanation. You have to get your head out of "where are the main characters!?". I'm not gonna lie, I admit that I was kinda sad when Kurapika & Leorio stopped showing up. But then again, the show establishes itself as a kid on a journey to meet his dad. The Yorknew Arc, as amazing as it was, is just that -- an arc. It focused on Kurapika but that doesn't necessarily guarantee that he'll be around for the rest of the show and you just have to accept that. And no explanation? Are you sure? Do you not remember the condition that Kurapika had in order to defeat the Troupe? If Kurapika had gone with them to NGL, Kurapika would have just been killed. And Leorio said it before, he's not there to become a hunter. He's there to pursue his goals as a doctor, the Hunter Exam was just a means of financial support. The only reason why Killua is even with Gon is because he enjoys being around him. The kid was sheltered (in a terrible way) throughout his entire life. Gon was his first true friend, no way in hell he'd stay with his family. Additionally, Nen becomes this excuse to do whatever the hell they want, rather than something that has to be earned and used properly. All that explanation of this sweet, mythical, energy, was now put to waste. The Chimera Ants are the pinnacle of evolution. That's what Togashi's been trying to engrave in the viewers from the very beginning of this arc. The fact that they learned Nen so quickly is just to reinforce the fact that these guys are beyond humans. And how humans deal with them (The Rose) beautifully displays just how ruthless humans can be, that not even these monsters can overcome "humanity's infinite capabilities for malice". "Are ants and humans any different?" (quoting Netero on both points) the theme that's being displayed throughout the entire thing. Come on. All throughout this show we've got to see characters learning how deal with their enemies and think both in the moment and outside of the box in order to face the challenge in front of them. The show "felt" great early on because as a viewer, we got to piece a lot of this together ourselves. Now we have a narrator literally going over not only what's in the characters' heads (which, if had to be done, should be done by them as it always has been up to this point), but the obvious crap that never had to be previously explained, too. It's like some strange level of arrogance the show gets about having to explain everything to us because it doesn't trust that we can comprehend the actions taking place on-screen. The moment that I started actually noticing this narrator was the moment I slowly stopped respecting the show. Have you watched episode 126? Did you not see how Netero dealt with Meruem? If that isn't "out of the box" then idk what is lol. Your opinion about the narrator is a common misconception that a lot of viewers seem to be having. No, it's not to make us look stupid or to spoon-feed us obvious things (which aren't always so obvious so good thing the narrator is there). It's to add effect, to add to the atmosphere. Whether you like it or not, that's up to you. I personally do. That. Being. Said. The CAA is still fairly decent in terms of the themes it touches upon. I haven't ever seen a "sense of identity" been explored on a thematic level before, and all of the character developments, arcs, fights, and dialog are still top notch. It's all in how it was presented. Everything just feels forced and underwhelming due to the grueling divergence in pacing from the otherwise perfect pacing it had before. If I were to describe it in one word, I'd say that this season has been disappointing. I'm legitimately shocked that the show could change so drastically so quickly. Anyway, if anyone read through that, I'd love if they could shed some light as to why all of this may be. It feels so different that I'm wondering if there was some behind the scenes type of ordeal similar to DB's Buu Saga where it was forced to be constructed a certain way without genuine inspiration. Still a solid anime, it just feels like this season doesn't fit in as well as it could have. Part of the reason why it feels "dragged out" is because they're being REALLY faithful to the manga -- nearly scan by scan. Togashi spent a lot of time on themes and character development in this arc so how that plays out in animation can be a bit awkward. But I think you'll have a much better appreciation for this arc once you see how it ends. Beautiful stuff. It's completely fine if you like the Yorknew Arc more, that arc was fantastic. But I also hope you see why most fans love this arc so much. |
jreginaldMay 13, 2014 8:40 PM
| Hey, welcome to MAL. Nice first post. It's nice to read someone's deep thoughts on a series to discuss. I'll try to address your points and see where we get. JordyJS said: Enter Greed Island, and the series started to "feel" different. It's hard to explain, but the charm from the first few seasons was starting to dissipate, and it felt as though the viewer was being left out of the characters' "plans". The absence of the characters we just spent time developing (Leorio and Kurapika in particular) felt like wasted potential. As much as it pains me, I think it's wiser to put Leorio and Kurapika on hold. They are both characters of their own with their own goals to accomplish. It's natural for them to part ways with Gon. Even Killua is just sticking with Gon to find out what he wants to actually do, as he stated in Whale Island. Besides, I think it makes it more exciting to later know what either of them is up to later on. This also gives Togashi more versatility in introducing characters relevant to the themes of each respective arc like Biske or Knuckle, instead of just dragging around characters with little to contribute to the themes or plot. First off, the ants literally come out of nowhere. I don't mean to compare, but typically when you're building up to such supposedly iconic villains, there should be the subtlest of buildups in the previous seasons to start garnering interest. The ants appear out of thin air, Gon completely dismisses finding Ging the moment he meets Kite, and just like that, it's as if Accompany teleports our heroes to an entirely new anime altogether. I agree that mentioning the Troupe before their actual introduction helped to build anticipation and, with that, make them more intriguing. I remember that, even when I read the manga some years back, the introduction of the Chimera Ants felt inorganic. However, I disagree that mentioning them in some earlier arc would have resulted benefical. Unless Togashi really went out of his way to do it, it would feel like a sloppy distraction, since the Ants are a totally unrelated threat to anything seen in Yorknew or Greed Island. I think that building up the treat in the earlier part of the arc helped establish the sense of urgency in the prevention of a natural disaster and emphasized the rapid evolution that makes the Ants a threat. This new character "the narrator" comes out from closet and proceeds to undermine everything that made the anime great, bringing us back to the mind-battles. Come on. All throughout this show we've got to see characters learning how deal with their enemies and think both in the moment and outside of the box in order to face the challenge in front of them. The show "felt" great early on because as a viewer, we got to piece a lot of this together ourselves. To be fair, the show has always pointed it itself when a character does something smart. Before, this role relied on the character's thought and conversations, in which they explained the reasoning behind their 'smart' moves. Now, since the gig is that everything is part of a mission in which time is crucial and decisions are being made instantaneously, the role was moved to the narrator. I personally do not see the show being dumbed down by introducing narration. The only thing that has changed is the relation of in-world time to narrative time, which can lead to awkward results in a real-time medium such as animation. |
RaticateMay 13, 2014 8:47 PM
| ^ Good points Raticate, especially about the narration. And the "ants coming out of nowhere", too. |
jreginald said: I felt the same way but I didn't see it as a "new anime". Gon is on a freaking adventure to meet his dad and he's just at a different chapter in that journey. Same thing with Greed Island, that arc was to develop Gon & Killua's strengths and to lead Gon closer to Ging (or so we thought). Again, just because it feels new doesn't mean it doesn't belong in HxH. I don't think the CAA doesn't belong in HxH, my issue is that it's contradictory to the previous arcs. Him simply "being on a different journey" doesn't justify abandoning the people who helped get him on that journey, people we grew to respect. jreginald said: ...You have to get your head out of "where are the main characters!?". I'm not gonna lie, I admit that I was kinda sad when Kurapika & Leorio stopped showing up. But then again, the show establishes itself as a kid on a journey to meet his dad. The Yorknew Arc, as amazing as it was, is just that -- an arc. It focused on Kurapika but that doesn't necessarily guarantee that he'll be around for the rest of the show and you just have to accept that. The show establishes itself as a team of characters working together to complete a common goal. Granted, their goals diverge as they progress, but that doesn't mean they should be forgotten altogether. It is what it is, but from a storytelling perspective, it's so wasteful to develop these characters only to leave them behind. If they are to be left behind, it should be addressed in some form or another. The Phantom Troupe got a (fairly) meaningless segment in the CAA, but at least their existence was noted. Meanwhile, other heroes and anti-heroes are nowhere to be found. jreginald said: And no explanation? Are you sure? Do you not remember the condition that Kurapika had in order to defeat the Troupe? If Kurapika had gone with them to NGL, Kurapika would have just been killed. And Leorio said it before, he's not there to become a hunter. He's there to pursue his goals as a doctor, the Hunter Exam was just a means of financial support. The only reason why Killua is even with Gon is because he enjoys being around him. The kid was sheltered (in a terrible way) throughout his entire life. Gon was his first true friend, no way in hell he'd stay with his family. That's exactly what I mean - they're all individuals with individual strengths and weaknesses, but that doesn't make them any less valuable to the team. It's just wasted opportunity. With all of the crazy things we've seen Nen be able to do (some of it just outright silly), it's not hard to believe that Kurapika's situation could be altered. Same goes for Leorio - hell, there was even a brief scene with some surgeons in Knov's teleportation room, perfect opportunity to give him something to do, no matter how minute. My point is that if we're at a stage where giant talking ants are a thing, is it truly unreasonable to expect characters we haven't seen for some time show some relevance? jreginald said: The Chimera Ants are the pinnacle of evolution. That's what Togashi's been trying to engrave in the viewers from the very beginning of this arc. The fact that they learned Nen so quickly is just to reinforce the fact that these guys are beyond humans. And how humans deal with them (The Rose) beautifully displays just how ruthless humans can be, that not even these monsters can overcome "humanity's infinite capabilities for malice". "Are ants and humans any different?", the theme that's being displayed throughout the entire thing. ... Have you watched episode 126? Did you not see how Netero dealt with Meruem? If that isn't "out of the box" then idk what is lol.9 I agree completely. That still doesn't mean it isn't flat out ridiculous how they use their Nen. I think back to the training with Bisky. Nen is used as an extension of the person's personality. This worked well in CAA as they only found Nen when they found individuality, which makes sense. I think you misinterpreted my point, as I was merely stating that the way Nen was used simply didn't fit into the established rules of the world. It was established to offer the user great power with consequence, and it was up to that user to use both to the best of their ability. The ants use it ruthlessly, without consequence, and without boundaries. Yeah, they're supposed to be "better" than us humans, but them getting a free pass for it just feels like changing the world to fit your story rather than building a story around the world you've created. jreginald said: Your opinion about the narrator is a common misconception that a lot of viewers seem to be having. No, it's not to make us look stupid or to spoon-feed us obvious things (which aren't always so obvious so good thing the narrator is there). It's to add effect, to add to the atmosphere. Whether you like it or not, that's up to you. I personally do. It's not intended to "make us look stupid", but it does. It's unintentionally condescending, and it's frustrating. The only effect it adds is drawing out fights needlessly (hey look, another DB comparison). But you're right, that one's up in the air. Personally, I just didn't care for it, but I can see how some folks might enjoy it. jreginald said: Please don't compare this to DBZ lol. By the way, part of the reason why it feels "dragged out" is because they're being REALLY faithful to the manga -- nearly scan by scan. I think you'll have a much better appreciation for this arc once you see how it ends. Beautiful stuff. Togashi spent A LOT more time on themes and character development on this arc, that's probably why it "feels" different. It's completely fine if you like the Yorknew Arc more, that arc was fantastic. But I also hope you see why most fans love this arc so much. I absolutely appreciate their faith to the manga, despite it being a negative impact, so I'll give you that one. It's more a qualm on my end - a part of the fun in this show was figuring everything out. Now that everything's explained, I feel like a child just staring at what's being presented to me. Albeit, it is still fun seeing the literary devices being used here and there, but those were always prominent. Lastly, the only reason I'm comparing it to DB is because that's exactly what it feels like at this stage. Awesome characters are being forgotten. Fights are long without basis. Meruem looks like Cell. Humans are being exterminated. Those last two are just jokes, of course, but what I'm getting at is that it's stopped feeling like how it initially felt (hence why it feels like a different anime to me). Anyway, this is of course all just opinion based. None of this is actually proven, but it just feels like a wasted opportunity to me. I'm still really digging the CAA, and I do very much hope it gets better as it wraps up. Around 115 I just accepted it and started enjoying it again, but it still could have been better. EDIT: @Raticate, I agree with all of your points, honestly. I too would love to see previous characters show up again in the future (especially Hisoka!). That being said, I stand by my points regarding the narration. It takes me out of it, I don't know, just too much of an abrupt change. EDIT EDIT: It is kind of fun to think of the CAA as the boys being dropped into the "real world" of what being a hunter is truly all about. If that concept is explored, I hope they lose, hah. |
JordyJSMay 13, 2014 9:02 PM
That's exactly what I mean - they're all individuals with individual strengths and weaknesses, but that doesn't make them any less valuable to the team. It's just wasted opportunity. With all of the crazy things we've seen Nen be able to do (some of it just outright silly), it's not hard to believe that Kurapika's situation could be altered. Same goes for Leorio - hell, there was even a brief scene with some surgeons in Knov's teleportation room, perfect opportunity to give him something to do, no matter how minute. My point is that if we're at a stage where giant talking ants are a thing, is it truly unreasonable to expect characters we haven't seen for some time show some relevance? I can't say I feel the same degree of sadness that you do (those 2 weren't exactly my favorites) but anyway, Kurapika just being able to lift his condition defeats the purpose of having a condition in the first place. It completely disregards why he got so strong and what he had to give up for that kind of power. Your point about Leorio is actually pretty cool but as I said before, he still has his own agenda. I get it, you wanted them to stay. But it's not like their absence DOESN'T make sense. I agree completely. That still doesn't mean it isn't flat out ridiculous how they use their Nen. I think back to the training with Bisky. Nen is used as an extension of the person's personality. This worked well in CAA as they only found Nen when they found individuality, which makes sense. I think you misinterpreted my point, as I was merely stating that the way Nen was used simply didn't fit into the established rules of the world. It was established to offer the user great power with consequence, and it was up to that user to use both to the best of their ability. The ants use it ruthlessly, without consequence, and without boundaries. Yeah, they're supposed to be "better" than us humans, but them getting a free pass for it just feels like changing the world to fit your story rather than building a story around the world you've created. Oh okay, I did misread that a bit. My mistake. But it''s not like they just learned Nen and just started shitting on everyone. The Ants did plenty of exploring with what they can do with Nen. Pitou was only able to "conjure" Dr. Blythe because of his desire to fight Kite once more, Pitou was sparked by the thrill of fighting a strong opponent. You see how useful this ability became when faced with the task of Komugi's recovery. They don't get a "free pass" either. With Cheetu we saw what lack of experience yielded. In frustration against Morel, he made an ability that was pretty useless to him (the bow). There's also Welfin, whose ability just didn't match his conniving personality. His ability could have been so much more (but he still made good use out of it). There's still limits to them and I think it's shown pretty well. Lastly, the only reason I'm comparing it to DB is because that's exactly what it feels like at this stage. Awesome characters are being forgotten. Fights are long without basis. Meruem looks like Cell. Humans are being exterminated. Those last two are just jokes, of course, but what I'm getting at is that it's stopped feeling like how it initially felt (hence why it feels like a different anime to me). They're not being forgotten. I won't spoil anything but anyway, like I said, their absence still makes sense when you look at the events that unfolded in the previous arcs. Also, Meruem was actually inspired by Cell AND Frieza (short as hell). xD Anyway, this is of course all just opinion based. None of this is actually proven, but it just feels like a wasted opportunity to me. I'm still really digging the CAA, and I do very much hope it gets better as it wraps up. Around 115 I just accepted it and started enjoying it again, but it still could have been better. Well, I'm glad that you still enjoy it. Part of what I love about this arc is what's about to happen. :) Also, welcome to MAL! |
jreginaldMay 13, 2014 9:34 PM
JordyJS said: EDIT: @Raticate, I agree with all of your points, honestly. I too would love to see previous characters show up again in the future (especially Hisoka!). That being said, I stand by my points regarding the narration. It takes me out of it, I don't know, just too much of an abrupt change. It's cool. I am just trying to discuss some possible reasons and purposes of stuff in the anime and so, understand our difference of perception. I do not pretend to force you to like something that bothers you. Just curious, which nen abilities do you find over the top? I think Cheetuh's tag ability was a little out there, but it was consistent with what we knew about Nen. The only thing that bothers me is that Chetuh creating a conjurated (think that's a word) Nen bow out of nowhere when Kurapika's training stated a Conjurer needed to be extremely familiar with an object to conjure it. However, this was practically comic relief, so I haven't given it too much thought. jreginald said: ^ Good points Raticate, especially about the narration. And the "ants coming out of nowhere", too. Thanks. You beat me to some points in your post, though. xD |
RaticateMay 13, 2014 9:49 PM
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