Puella Magi Madoka Magica: The Movie -Rebellion-
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Apr 25, 2014 1:27 PM
#1
I`ve readed so many topics, thhat say, how much ending betray character of Homura, i respectfully disagree, Homura become magical girl, with just one desire "I want to protect Madoka" after Movie 2 events, Homura thought Madoka was safe, but then, Incubators decided to gain control over Madoka again, by most coward way possible, using someone close to her, to lure her out (It could be everyone) so Homura thought, that, the only way of truly save Madoka. Was to steal her powers, and gain control over everything, even Incubators, i understand, that some people think she is "Crazy, overprotective" but, she goes through a lot of trauma, and even in her God form, Madoka wasn`t safe. It didn`t help, that it was Homura herself, who told Incubatosr about how world used to work. If things were left as it used to be, Incubators surely would try again to enslave Madoka. |
Apr 25, 2014 4:46 PM
#2
^^^ This and the flower scene are what justify Homura's actions for me. Not only is Homura worried about the incubators, but she's also told by Madoka that it would be painful to go so far away that she could never see Homura again. This is a Madoka without her memories but it casts doubt on whether Madoka is the Law of Cycles out of duty or happiness. |
Apr 26, 2014 8:44 AM
#3
Not to mention that she already is a witch from the start of the movie so her actions will be a lot more impulsive than if she was normal. And I agree that she should have NEVER talked with anyone,especially QB, about Madoka and the old fat eof all magical girls.What was she even thinking? |
Apr 26, 2014 12:50 PM
#4
At least, if they somehow get free of Devil Homura world, Incuators surely won`t mess with humans again, i loved how Kyubey say "Maybe trying to control human emotions wasn`t such good idea" while being in grasp of Devil Homura, it was so satisfactionary. |
Apr 26, 2014 12:51 PM
#5
Even when justified, the ending was still stupid. It was edgy for the sake of being edgy, like everything else urobuchi has ever created. Read Saya no Uta. You are putting way too many implication's into Homura's actions. You can't just assume what her motives are. It's a cartoon. I judge it based on the information we were given, which is that Homura forced everyone to do what she wants because shes a psychotic spoiled child. If you are the kind of emo angsty douche that wants every single anime to be about crying, rape, and murder, then this is the kind of shit you'd enjoy. The bottom line is that Madoka willingly chose to become the God she became. In the movie, Homura FORCES HER to live a life she didn't choose. Homura's thoughts about what Madoka wants are disgruntled and childish. You can't call an ending where the MC becomes satan and enslaves all her friends into fantasy land by force a "happy ending". Edit: I'd call what happened to QB a happy ending at least, though even that was edgy, as it was a form of sadistic punishment. |
SolviteWoTaberuApr 26, 2014 12:55 PM
Apr 26, 2014 1:40 PM
#6
Apr 26, 2014 2:14 PM
#7
SolviteSekai said: You are putting way too many implication's into Homura's actions. You can't just assume what her motives are. It's a cartoon. So what, just because it's animated we aren't allowed to analyze characters the way we would in a book or film? That's bullshit. |
Apr 26, 2014 2:43 PM
#8
FierceAlchemist said: SolviteSekai said: You are putting way too many implication's into Homura's actions. You can't just assume what her motives are. It's a cartoon. So what, just because it's animated we aren't allowed to analyze characters the way we would in a book or film? That's bullshit. You are free to analyze it as long as they are what you wished for. Regrettably SolviteSekai didnt get his yuri OTP MadokaxHomura, so everything is shit,dark and edgy with OOC characters to the point of comparing it with totally unrelated and vastly different works with completely different themes and goals. And no matter how much you prove to him, with scenes from both the original and Rebellion, that Homura did the exact same thing Madoka did, he will still go on and on with his stupid reasoning about satan,free will, and fantasy land. |
ssjokgApr 26, 2014 2:47 PM
Apr 27, 2014 11:49 AM
#9
ssjokg said: FierceAlchemist said: SolviteSekai said: You are putting way too many implication's into Homura's actions. You can't just assume what her motives are. It's a cartoon. So what, just because it's animated we aren't allowed to analyze characters the way we would in a book or film? That's bullshit. You are free to analyze it as long as they are what you wished for. Regrettably SolviteSekai didnt get his yuri OTP MadokaxHomura, so everything is shit,dark and edgy with OOC characters to the point of comparing it with totally unrelated and vastly different works with completely different themes and goals. And no matter how much you prove to him, with scenes from both the original and Rebellion, that Homura did the exact same thing Madoka did, he will still go on and on with his stupid reasoning about satan,free will, and fantasy land. Ditto. If you don't delve into what the deeper meaning behind the plot and what the character's actions are, can you really say you can fully judge what you've watched? However, I would like to fully apologize for being an emo angsty douche. Also, I wouldn't say that we're calling it a happy ending just because we think some parts of it were justified. It's clearly not made to be a happy ending for everyone. |
Apr 27, 2014 12:02 PM
#10
MrSmexyTheBeast said: Ditto. If you don't delve into what the deeper meaning behind the plot and what the character's actions are, can you really say you can fully judge what you've watched? However, I would like to fully apologize for being an emo angsty douche. Also, I wouldn't say that we're calling it a happy ending just because we think some parts of it were justified. It's clearly not made to be a happy ending for everyone. Why are you apologising for??? Yes the ending isnt a true happy ending,one that you can see and then be at peace.Homura is still a witch and although she is capable of being with Madoka like everyone else, she cant due to her role now.And since her powers arent absolute the others will most likely go against her(unless if QB manages to get away from her and make another masterplan, so Madoka and the other will try to save her...again).But it definitely is a happier ending than the tv series. It isnt about her actions being justified but about the end result(for now) which is better than what Madoka accomplished. |
Apr 27, 2014 12:04 PM
#11
You are calling it a happy ending because Kuybey got punished. You like punishment, psychosis and other edgy things. I didn't ship anyone. I just like anime that has a reasonable ending that isn't retarded. |
Apr 27, 2014 12:12 PM
#12
I call it a happy ending because QB was punished and more people got saved than in the tv series . You put Saya no Uta in the same category of shows as K-on.I dont think you are capable of understanding any kind of story. |
Apr 27, 2014 12:17 PM
#13
ssjokg said: I call it a happy ending because QB was punished and more people got saved than in the tv series . You put Saya no Uta in the same category of shows as K-on.I dont think you are capable of understanding any kind of story. No, I said Saya no Uta is an example of how Urobuchi writes shit for shock value. Can you at least pretend you speak english? Nobody was saved. They were FORCED to forget everything. Homura didn't give them a chance at a normal life. She became Satan and forced everyone to live by fake rules she made up for the universe. Why don't you just admit that seeing Homura call herself a demon and kuybey crying made you feel tingly? |
Apr 27, 2014 12:29 PM
#14
But it isnt a slice of life show so it isnt out of place, like I have being saying in the other thread.What happens in SnU,just likeMadoka, doesnt contradict the entire plot,genre,theme,atmosphere.Can you try to understand english? -Homura was FORCED to let Madoka become a"god".Every Magical girl,friend and family were FORCED to forget her and everything that happened till then.They werent given a choice.Madoka created a "fake rule " to stop them from becoming witches.Madoka FORCED herself to become a godlike being in order to save others.How is Madoka any different from Homura? -Homura FORCED Madoka to become human again..She FORCED every Magical girl to become normal again instead of giving them a future filled with deadly fights.She FORCED those EX-Magical girl,friend and family to remember/get to know Madoka.She created "fake rules" to stop curses from harming them by making QB absorb them.Homura FORCED herself to become a godlike being in order to save Madoka.How is Homura any different from Madoka? Oh wait,for now,Homura did a better job at playing "god". Instead of ad hominem, and random bullshit how about to try and see the fucking show? |
Apr 27, 2014 12:31 PM
#15
ssjokg said: But it isnt a slice of life show so it isnt out of place, like I have being saying in the other thread.What happens in SnU,just likeMadoka, doesnt contradict the entire plot,genre,theme,atmosphere.Can you try to understand english? -Homura was FORCED to let Madoka become a"god".Every Magical girl,friend and family were FORCED to forget her and everything that happened till then.They werent given a choice.Madoka created a "fake rule " to stop them from becoming witches.How is Madoka any different from Homura? -Homura FORCED Madoka to become human again..She FORCED every Magical girl to become normal again instead of giving them a future filled with deadly fights.She FORCED those EX-Magical girl,friend and family to remember/get to know Madoka.She created "fake rules" to stop curses from harming them by making QB absorb them.How is Homura any different from Madoka? Oh wait,for now,Homura did a better job at playing "god". Instead of ad hominem, and random bullshit how about to try and see the fucking show? I've seen the show. Also, you really speak the most broken english I've seen in a long time. You think it's a happy ending because you like edgy bullshit endings. |
Apr 27, 2014 1:35 PM
#16
I have to commend the film, I bet if the film ended with Homura taken by Madoka to Magical Yuri heaven, then no one of us here will be in this thread, because it's just a pure fan-service/fan-pandering film but most importantly the film's necessity will be questioned. As I have said in another thread which SolviteSekai made just to rant: "I don't see the point of a continuation movie if we are just gonna see an ending where Homura went to magical yuri heaven with Madoka, the ending of the TV series should have satisfied yuri fans then. But they gave us a continuation which means that the producers have something in store in the film that they feel is worth making an entire movie, and this is what we get, as a Madoka Magica fan I feel fulfilled, its may not the ending that we wanted, but an ending that is necessary... I will not be a big fan of Madoka Magica as I am today if they gave me an ending that I wanted." |
Apr 27, 2014 2:44 PM
#17
Homura gets too much hate. If there's one character that I grew to hate more after the movie, that's Kyubey. They already had a well functioning system thanks to Madoka, but they had to screw with the emotions of a teenage girl again, for more energy. I have to give Homura right about this. They are too dangerous to not to be under control. |
HeisenApr 27, 2014 2:53 PM
Apr 27, 2014 6:14 PM
#18
I actually didn't care a whole lot about Homura until I watched this movie. My heart was devoted to Sayaka, but I really love Homura more than anyone now. Also, besides the flower scene, this scene also justifies her actions for me. She felt like Madoka's sacrifice was a waste, and it was, as there were still Wraiths and grief cubes. And Homura felt that it was all her fault that Madoka gave up her existence in vain, since she was supposed to protect her. At the end, Homura only wanted to give Madoka another chance to have a happier, more meaningful life. Also, there was the fact that she had to keep her away from Kyuubey. Either way, Homura did nothing wrong. |
Apr 28, 2014 7:54 AM
#19
Of course it's not a happy ending. It's explicitly not 'edgy for the sake of being edgy'. Urobuchi's words say as much. (But I'll grant that perspectives on the sequel possibility vary and definitions are malleable. Hehe. MALleable. Teeheehee) Yes, Homura became a god, but no it was not like Madoka. Homura made her own wish back in episode 10, you goons. It was never fulfilled, mind you. Important to note. No wonder she's not at peace. No wonder she goes bonkers. Every other magical girl ever got her wish and then died for it. Homura just died for it. Let's not brush Homura's actions aside here. They were quite wrong. They were also quite understandable. Is kind of the point, after all. Of the franchise. All pretty selfish, and that's not a bad thing. Strict division of right and wrong is silly when we're talking about Madoka Magica, it's not neatly cut up like that and it's a disservice to show and movies to say so. Yes, it was perfectly in line with Homura's actions leading to this point and a natural development of her character. I also think it made the movie more than an intriguing yuri thought experiment but I'm not dipping more than a toe into that pool. |
Apr 28, 2014 1:16 PM
#20
Lets forget about what Madoka said to Homura that she wanted(to be with everyone) and focus on QB's experiment. QB now knows that Madoka exists and he knows that it is possible to catch her.Next time he will be cautious enough to not let her assistants/angels roam free. Madoka will try to save any magical girl.It doesnt have to be Madoka. Homura got the idea of how to save Madoka only when QB showed her that it IS possible.She wasnt planning on even trying to return Madoka to normal before that.It was a very good decision to "save" Madoka and trap QB that way. If something from her actions IS wrong is that she literally plays the devil in front of Sayaka of all people.Maybe thats is because she feels guilty for going against Madoka(and her sacrifice even if she hate it) or because she cant think very straight due to being a witch.In any case it isnt very smart and will obviously lead to another fight between her and and Sayaka's faction(I cant imagine Madoka doing anything to Homura-chan unless if she acts based on her mother's words) |
Apr 28, 2014 2:16 PM
#21
I feel like people miss the point here. The problem with the ending is that it barely makes any sense. There's no explanation as to how Homura is able to just take power from what is supposed to be a godlike figure nor is there much of a particular reason for why she acts the way she does in some of the scenes towards the end of the film. It amazes me how little people seem to care about that particular detail. Her being in love or whatever is also too cheesy a reason and too simplistic a concept IMO for this series unless I'm giving it more credit than it deserves which I might be at this point and it also still doesn't explain how she was able to take the actions she did. The reasons for the why have a bit more justification than the how, but require the viewer to just be able to accept certain things and to work with the community to try to find an answer. There's also really no reason for her to act like a villain with a slasher smile for some scenes other than just rule of cool. People point to the flower field scene and say it explains pretty much everything that happens in the movie, but then that raises the issue that that wasn't even the real Madoka but a facsimile of how Madoka appears to her and it still doesn't really explain the how of her whole stealing power from Madoka thing. The movie just fails at properly establishing context for that scene at the end and it's probably because it wants it to be as shocking an unexpected as possible and operates on the faith that the fans will be so dedicated to the work that they'll go back to watch the movie again and try to find a good enough reason as to why. I guess that approach works for some people but I just found it to be poor storytelling that puts commercial needs and trying to be controversial ahead of just telling the best damn story it can with it's time and format, which is something I felt the TV series did quite well enough. I guess I just have a lower tolerance level for this sort of thing and the will to try to make things work for myself by picking out scenes or coming up with ideas or interpretations of vague lines and imagery that might justify and allow the ending to make more sense. I'd rather the movie give me good cause to appreciate those scenes or developments because they are well handled and invoke a response in me other than just shock and confusion. Frankly I think they did that on purpose and the use of weird imagery and cryptic dialogue is calculated so that the fans will discuss it, look for justifications and in turn give feedback and ideas to the producers on how to continue the story and which those producers can then try to subvert somehow since that seems to be what this franchise is all about in the end. Again some people really appreciate and latch onto that sort of thing because to some extent it does engage a community more than just a straightforward old fashioned well told story, but I just find it leaves me with an empty feeling and unable to appreciate and feel attached to what I'm watching independent of just jumping on a bandwagon and allowing the community to dictate how a show is to be received and interpreted and what it ought to mean to the viewer in the end if they are watching it "the right way". I really REALLY hope this approach to storytelling for anime doesn't catch on more than it has already cause it's kind of shitty IMO. |
PeacingOutApr 28, 2014 2:25 PM
Apr 28, 2014 2:38 PM
#22
Homura is a witch from the beginning of the movie.A witch that was able to completely replicate a city and even brainwash her victims,including Madoka, and even herself while still having control over her Labyrinth.Just like QB would be able to control Madoka , she was able to do it by some kind of "magic".This IS a magic show. As for her actions as said above : ssjokg said: Lets forget about what Madoka said to Homura that she wanted(to be with everyone) and focus on QB's experiment. QB now knows that Madoka exists and he knows that it is possible to catch her.Next time he will be cautious enough to not let her assistants/angels roam free. Madoka will try to save any magical girl.It doesnt have to be Madoka. Homura got the idea of how to save Madoka only when QB showed her that it IS possible.She wasnt planning on even trying to return Madoka to normal before that.It was a very good decision to "save" Madoka and trap QB that way. If something from her actions IS wrong is that she literally plays the devil in front of Sayaka of all people.Maybe thats is because she feels guilty for going against Madoka(and her sacrifice even if she hate it) or because she cant think very straight due to being a witch.In any case it isnt very smart and will obviously lead to another fight between her and Sayaka's faction(I cant imagine Madoka doing anything to Homura-chan unless if she acts based on her mother's words) Kaioshin_Sama said: Again some people really appreciate and latch onto that sort of thing because to some extent it does engage a community more than just a straightforward old fashioned well told story, but I just find it leaves me with an empty feeling and unable to appreciate and feel attached to what I'm watching independent of just jumping on a bandwagon and allowing the community to dictate how a show is to be received and interpreted and what it ought to mean to the viewer in the end if they are watching it "the right way". I really REALLY hope this approach to storytelling for anime doesn't catch on more than it has already cause it's kind of shitty IMO. Didnt NGE start this kind of thing?It's not Madoka that started and it isnt the biggest "offender" around either.As for the show, it sure as hell it isnt complicated,(it is pretty straightforward actually)unless if you want it to be for the sake of symbolism in each and every scene.Yes some scenes have some symbolism but not always related to the plot nor do they have some super hidden meaning. BTW, in your list I really dont get the tag in Rebellion:"Mostly interesting movie but with a lot of problems in the pacing dept. and with contradictions of established canon that remind me of Disappearance of Haruhi Suzumiya" Lets say that Rebellion had contradictions, how the hell would it remind you of Haruhi?I think it is more you and others not understanding the "canon"(they are sequels not spin off) than those contradiction actually existing. |
ssjokgApr 28, 2014 2:49 PM
Apr 28, 2014 3:15 PM
#23
Just want to add something, I think people are forgetting that Homura's wished wasn't been fulfilled until after she re-made the world, my best guess is that her love and despair, her desire to protect Madoka and multiple time travel and the fact she's already a witch in the start of the movie added weight until it reach the point that she was enough potential to grant a wish as big and bold as hers. |
Apr 28, 2014 4:28 PM
#24
ssjokg said: Homura is a witch from the beginning of the movie.A witch that was able to completely replicate a city and even brainwash her victims,including Madoka, and even herself while still having control over her Labyrinth.Just like QB would be able to control Madoka , she was able to do it by some kind of "magic".This IS a magic show. As for her actions as said above : ssjokg said: Lets forget about what Madoka said to Homura that she wanted(to be with everyone) and focus on QB's experiment. QB now knows that Madoka exists and he knows that it is possible to catch her.Next time he will be cautious enough to not let her assistants/angels roam free. Madoka will try to save any magical girl.It doesnt have to be Madoka. Homura got the idea of how to save Madoka only when QB showed her that it IS possible.She wasnt planning on even trying to return Madoka to normal before that.It was a very good decision to "save" Madoka and trap QB that way. If something from her actions IS wrong is that she literally plays the devil in front of Sayaka of all people.Maybe thats is because she feels guilty for going against Madoka(and her sacrifice even if she hate it) or because she cant think very straight due to being a witch.In any case it isnt very smart and will obviously lead to another fight between her and Sayaka's faction(I cant imagine Madoka doing anything to Homura-chan unless if she acts based on her mother's words) All of this seems to be pure speculation like a lot of the talk about what went on in the movie. That's kind of my problem with it, nothing is really established and a lot of it is just abstract stuff where the expect the fan response to make up for a lack of clarification on plot points and character motivations. It's almost like they expect the fans to do the work for them in dictating how the sequel will play out cause obviously the fans are going to choose the interpretation of events that they like the most and then the producers can follow the reaction and write about the sequel based on that. If you clarify too much you hand tie yourself too much into having to follow up on events in a certain way. Of course a lot of this franchises popularity seems to be centered around trying to unsettle the audience and give them mixed feelings because that's apparently the essence of genius storytelling nowadays. I just think it's kind of an uninspiring and lazy way to try to tell a story. Maybe if I got as intensely attached to this franchise as a lot of people didn't I wouldn't see it as as big of a problem, but I'm merely a person who though the TV show was good and wanted to see more, not the type that thinks it's the greatest story ever told. Didnt NGE start this kind of thing?It's not Madoka that started and it isnt the biggest "offender" around either.As for the show, it sure as hell it isnt complicated,(it is pretty straightforward actually)unless if you want it to be for the sake of symbolism in each and every scene.Yes some scenes have some symbolism but not always related to the plot nor do they have some super hidden meaning. I think it goes back even further to a film called Ideon: Be Invoked which was the main inspiration for Evangelion according to Hideaki Anno and pretty infamous in it's day for it's rather ambiguous bad ending. The thing with both Ideon and Eva though is you could feel a certain sense of inevitability leading up to those bad endings. In the case of both it seemed to be that humanity was heading off the edge into the abyss the way things were going with society (In Ideon it was more clearly a commentary on the state of the Cold War and how two sides with more in common than they thought were destined to destroy each other in a climatic conflict that took down those around them which of course never happened thanks to Gorbachev and his policies of Glasnost in Evangelion I'm honestly less sure but figure it had something to do with depression and nihilism in the youth community and how the attitudes of the current generation would inevitably doom us all in the future), but in the case of Madoka I'm not sure what I'm supposed to derive from it. I'm guessing he's dabbling in some sort of ideas of moral dualism again only this time it feels more contrived and sudden and with a whole lot less build up. BTW, in your list I really dont get the tag in Rebellion:"Mostly interesting movie but with a lot of problems in the pacing dept. and with contradictions of established canon that remind me of Disappearance of Haruhi Suzumiya" Lets say that Rebellion had contradictions, how the hell would it remind you of Haruhi?I think it is more you and others not understanding the "canon"(they are sequels not spin off) than those contradiction actually existing. It's more that I felt both movies have very similar problems despite both fan groups proclaiming that they're the greatest movies ever made at the time they came out. Both suffer from awkward pacing at the start and the need to get a move on with the narrative albeit less so with Madoka, both have characters performing feats of attaining near omniscience at the expense of a titular character to change the world for the sake of another character and "save them" from the clutches of some advanced extraterrestrial force in ways that seem to contradict established canon and make me wonder why those characters didn't just use those abilities earlier on in the story. Where they differ though is that the ending to Haruhi's film is much more satisfying, conclusive and meaningful while Madoka just sort of ends with a collage of some scenes of the cast and that's a wrap. The ending just feels really rushed and like it could have used a lot of expanding on, but then obviously a lot of people seem to like that less is more and abstract and unclear is better than to the point and fleshed out approach so...yeah. A lot of people seem to think this movie was absolutely flawless masterpiece and worthy of the utmost critical acclaim as a piece of fiction and I don't know what to say to that. It has a lot of basic storytelling and pacing problems and a lot of events that don't seem to make a whole lot of sense from where I'm sitting, but like I keep saying I never got nearly as invested in this franchise as so many seem to have so maybe these issues are just more apparent to me while it's entirely possible that the Madoka fanbase will just see every aspect of the movie as a strength. |
Apr 28, 2014 4:45 PM
#25
Its not just speculation, its all there on the screen if you pay attention, you just sound like you just don't get it which is fine and all. Also the pacing is fine, unless your the kind of person who has ADHD, under the age of 12, or needs constant explosions to not bore you, also considering you have Monster in your favorites when has slow pacing mean something is bad? Monster is very slow paced compared to most mainstreamed stuff, ask most people why they drop Monster and I would say 9/10 times they would say because it was too slow. Also where are these contradictions you found? please I will like to seem them. And don't get me wrong I love the Haruhi film, but I don't see how the ending was that conclusive there's like several more books needed to conclude Haruhi. Hell Kyon even mentions in the film he will have to at some point go back in time to the place hes stab to save himself and the world.... and it ends with him just getting back to where he started though with a more positive outlook. Also how was Rebellion ending rushed it had a 10 min Epilogue in movie that' under 2 hours long :/ what did you expect some LotR Return of The King long epilogue? |
Apr 28, 2014 4:52 PM
#26
You can justify Homura's retardo actions by claiming she was a witch from the beginning, but that makes it even more edgy for the sake of being edgy. The reason people are upset is because they took a series that had a definitive ending, and retconned it in the exact opposite direction, completely changing almost all the characters completely. Also the part at the end where Homura kills herself by falling off the cliff is mad happy ending. Homura: Went from loving and devoted to psychotic and obsessed. Kyouko went from confident and aggressive to reserved and confused. Sayaka went from reserved and angry to intelligent and aggressive. Madoka went from being a god who chose to save the magical girls to homura's bitch doll. Mami went from intelligent and loving to confontational and confused. It really didn't need to be made, but was made so that Urobuchi's edgy teen fanbase would be appeased. And please refrain from accusing me of shipping. For one thing, if Homura was claimed by the law of cycles she would cease to be Homura and die. Sayaka was only reincarnated to help Madoka get to Homura in the labyrinth. By keeping madoka locked in fairy world, homura was able to stay with her in her yandere fantasy, which IS shipping. |
SolviteWoTaberuApr 28, 2014 4:56 PM
Apr 28, 2014 4:58 PM
#27
Edgy is a buzzword it can mean what ever you want it to mean, so choose a word with actual proper definition if you want your post to be taken seriously. |
Apr 28, 2014 5:00 PM
#28
ElPysCongroo said: Edgy is a buzzword it can mean what ever you want it to mean, so choose a word with actual proper definition if you want your post to be taken seriously. Edgy isn't a buzzword. The ending of Madoka was concrete and well explained. Everyone was given closure. The ending of the movie was retarded and left all the characters open to rebel against Homura. The parameters of the new world weren't explained. What happened in said world wasn't explained. The after credits scene of Homura dropping herself off the cliff wasn't explained. It was just like every other Urobuchi ending, where at the last minute, just before good things might happen, he took a giant shit on all the characters and gave them no closure. |
Apr 28, 2014 5:03 PM
#29
If you have to sit down and think of all kinds of fan theories to understand how something ended, that means the ending was convoluted and poorly written. That is the problem. It's just like the people who have no fucking idea what happened in Evangelion who try and play it off as deep and philosophical, even though Anno openly told reporters that the anime was pedantic and confusing for the sake of being confusing. You aren't smart for liking confusing shit. You aren't mature for liking violent/sad things. In the end its just cartoons, and the people who refuse to acknowledge them unless they are as edgy as possible come off as immature. Ghostalker said: Just want to add something, I think people are forgetting that Homura's wished wasn't been fulfilled until after she re-made the world, my best guess is that her love and despair, her desire to protect Madoka and multiple time travel and the fact she's already a witch in the start of the movie added weight until it reach the point that she was enough potential to grant a wish as big and bold as hers. This right here is a perfect example. You shouldn't have to "guess" what her motives are and add your own dumb bullshit, and most likely incorrect reasoning. You have no idea what the story was supposed to mean intentionally, because it was left wide the fuck open. Letting the viewer come up with their own ending is amateur bullshit that favors self proclaimed intellectuals and authors. |
Apr 28, 2014 5:06 PM
#30
SolviteSekai said: ElPysCongroo said: Edgy is a buzzword it can mean what ever you want it to mean, so choose a word with actual proper definition if you want your post to be taken seriously. Edgy isn't a buzzword. The ending of Madoka was concrete and well explained. Everyone was given closure. The ending of the movie was retarded and left all the characters open to rebel against Homura. The parameters of the new world weren't explained. What happened in said world wasn't explained. The after credits scene of Homura dropping herself off the cliff wasn't explained. It was just like every other Urobuchi ending, where at the last minute, just before good things might happen, he took a giant shit on all the characters and gave them no closure. But the characters are given closure though. Mami finally gets a kouhai and a person to be senpai too Nagaise. Sayaka and Kyoko become best friends and Madoka is reunited with her family. That's closure. The new world isn't really explained , but its clear that the new world is pretty much in a huge barrier, with Homura with pretty much omnipotent control over. I would also make a point it was only Homura who rebelled in the dream world, the others were all fine and happy in it, even Sayaka was happy in the dream world and she even knew it was an illusion. |
Apr 28, 2014 5:07 PM
#31
ElPysCongroo said: SolviteSekai said: ElPysCongroo said: Edgy is a buzzword it can mean what ever you want it to mean, so choose a word with actual proper definition if you want your post to be taken seriously. Edgy isn't a buzzword. The ending of Madoka was concrete and well explained. Everyone was given closure. The ending of the movie was retarded and left all the characters open to rebel against Homura. The parameters of the new world weren't explained. What happened in said world wasn't explained.] The after credits scene of Homura dropping herself off the cliff wasn't explained. It was just like every other Urobuchi ending, where at the last minute, just before good things might happen, he took a giant shit on all the characters and gave them no closure. But the characters are given closure though. Mami finally gets a kouhai and a person to be senpai too Nagaise. Sayaka and Kyoko become best friends and Madoka is reunited with her family. That's closure. The new world isn't really explained , but its clear that the new world is pretty much in a huge barrier, with Homura with pretty much omnipotent control over. I would also make a point it was only Homura who rebelled in the dream world, the others were all fine and happy in it, even Sayaka was happy in the dream world and she even knew it was an illusion. Where is any of this shown. None of this was shown. You assume this shit. It is part of your own immaturity and insecurity that makes you think being forced to be happy counts as being happy. Madoka chose to give her life so that others could make their own choice to become magical girls without being afraid of becoming monsters. The fact that you think that Homura BECOMING FUCKING SATAN and forcing her to live with her forever in magical fairy world shows that you like edgy bullshit. There's even a scene when Madoka starts to remember that she wanted to help the world, and Homura grabs her crying in pain (edgy) and begging her not to remember. It isn't presented as a happy ending where people are happy. Even Sayaka had to be FORCED to accept it as Homura wiped her memory right in front of her and dared her to defy her. The sad part is, 2 times now threads have had to be cleaned because you, Fai and sskjog or whatever go thread to thread being immature and rude about shit. |
SolviteWoTaberuApr 28, 2014 5:11 PM
Apr 28, 2014 5:11 PM
#32
SolviteSekai said: You can justify Homura's retardo actions by claiming she was a witch from the beginning, but that makes it even more edgy for the sake of being edgy. If you watch the epilogue of Madoka Magica in episode 12/Eternal, you will know that she is about to become a witch at that point, plus the geographical location is consistent with the one where Homura's body is located. So I don't think it's there for the sake of just being edgy. SolviteSekai said: The reason people are upset is because they took a series that had a definitive ending, and retconned it in the exact opposite direction, completely changing almost all the characters completely. Also the part at the end where Homura kills herself by falling off the cliff is mad happy ending. Homura: Went from loving and devoted to psychotic and obsessed. Kyouko went from confident and aggressive to reserved and confused. Sayaka went from reserved and angry to intelligent and aggressive. Madoka went from being a god who chose to save the magical girls to homura's bitch doll. Mami went from intelligent and loving to confontational and confused. Homura: Consistent and I would say natural as she is on the end of her cycle from Magical Girl who gives hope to witch who gives despair. Kyouko: She is a victim who was brought to Homura's witch world, it's natural that she is confused. Sayaka: life experience, she finally come in terms of her feelings, episode 12 showed that. Madoka: what do you expect after Homura did all that? Mami: Also a victim of Homura's witch world, so yeah she is confused. Lasly, your next rant doesn't make sense. |
Apr 28, 2014 5:11 PM
#33
SolviteSekai said: Where is any of this shown. None of this was shown. You assume this shit. It is part of your own immaturity and insecurity that makes you think being forced to be happy counts as being happy. Yes all of this is shown, it shows Mami and Nagise meeting, it shows Kyoko and Sayaka hanging out and it shows Madoka uniting with her family. Homura does not remove freewill. The barrier is also shown when it was created. Homura's new powers are also shown, with being able to make herself invisible, stop time as well as remove memories, this was all shown. As for Sayaka happy in the dream world, shes says it twice, once when shes confronts Homura and talks about how the dream world is nice, and secondly when she talks with kyoko and shes happy she got to meet with her again, all shown. Try to troll better. |
Apr 28, 2014 5:15 PM
#34
ElPysCongroo said: SolviteSekai said: Where is any of this shown. None of this was shown. You assume this shit. It is part of your own immaturity and insecurity that makes you think being forced to be happy counts as being happy. Yes all of this is shown, it shows Mami and Nagise meeting, it shows Kyoko and Sayaka hanging out and it shows Madoka uniting with her family. The barrier is also shown when it was created. Homura's new powers are also shown, with being able to make herself invisible, stop time as well as remove memories, this was all shown. As for Sayaka happy in the dream world, shes says it twice, once when shes confronts Homura and talks about how the dream world is nice, and secondly when she talks with kyoko and shes happy she got to meet with her again, all shown. Try to troll better. Madoka's family who have been completely rewritten. They aren't even the same people. Sayaka was happy in the original dream world. At the end, Sayaka doesnt look very fucking happy. http://imgur.com/kWksJ2i Also figured I'd add some more "happy" imagery from the end. http://imgur.com/sYHttKZ |
Apr 28, 2014 5:18 PM
#35
Just look at how "happy" homura is. http://imgur.com/04Hp6CC Oh and here's a shot of her COMMITTING FUCKING SUICIDE at the end. http://imgur.com/7FMgjk8 When I think happy, I think killing myself. Why don't you guys just admit that seeing people suffer (especially QB) got you all horny inside and you couldn't wait to give this shit a 10. doremiku said: I actually didn't care a whole lot about Homura until I watched this movie. My heart was devoted to Sayaka, but I really love Homura more than anyone now. Also, besides the flower scene, this scene also justifies her actions for me. She felt like Madoka's sacrifice was a waste, and it was, as there were still Wraiths and grief cubes. And Homura felt that it was all her fault that Madoka gave up her existence in vain, since she was supposed to protect her. At the end, Homura only wanted to give Madoka another chance to have a happier, more meaningful life. Also, there was the fact that she had to keep her away from Kyuubey. http://imgur.com/l64znWx Crazyface from that scene. Super edgy. |
SolviteWoTaberuApr 28, 2014 5:23 PM
Apr 28, 2014 5:21 PM
#36
SolviteSekai said: ElPysCongroo said: SolviteSekai said: Where is any of this shown. None of this was shown. You assume this shit. It is part of your own immaturity and insecurity that makes you think being forced to be happy counts as being happy. Yes all of this is shown, it shows Mami and Nagise meeting, it shows Kyoko and Sayaka hanging out and it shows Madoka uniting with her family. The barrier is also shown when it was created. Homura's new powers are also shown, with being able to make herself invisible, stop time as well as remove memories, this was all shown. As for Sayaka happy in the dream world, shes says it twice, once when shes confronts Homura and talks about how the dream world is nice, and secondly when she talks with kyoko and shes happy she got to meet with her again, all shown. Try to troll better. Madoka's family who have been completely rewritten. They aren't even the same people. Sayaka was happy in the original dream world. At the end, Sayaka doesnt look very fucking happy. http://imgur.com/kWksJ2i Also figured I'd add some more "happy" imagery from the end. http://imgur.com/sYHttKZ Madoka's family are the same people though as theres no evidence she creates new people, so whose speculating now huh? As for those Sayaka pics I see you have been very picky on which ones you showed, as you forgot the pics of the very last scene she is shown in where shes playing with Kyko and shes smiling and laughing in that. |
Apr 28, 2014 5:22 PM
#37
SolviteSekai said: Just look at how "happy" homura is. http://imgur.com/04Hp6CC Oh and here's a shot of her COMMITTING FUCKING SUICIDE at the end. http://imgur.com/7FMgjk8 When I think happy, I think killing myself. Why don't you guys just admit that seeing people suffer (especially QB) got you all horny inside and you couldn't wait to give this shit a 10. yawn zzzzzzzzzzzzzz. Where did I ever say Homura was happy? |
Apr 28, 2014 5:25 PM
#38
ElPysCongroo said: SolviteSekai said: ElPysCongroo said: SolviteSekai said: Where is any of this shown. None of this was shown. You assume this shit. It is part of your own immaturity and insecurity that makes you think being forced to be happy counts as being happy. Yes all of this is shown, it shows Mami and Nagise meeting, it shows Kyoko and Sayaka hanging out and it shows Madoka uniting with her family. The barrier is also shown when it was created. Homura's new powers are also shown, with being able to make herself invisible, stop time as well as remove memories, this was all shown. As for Sayaka happy in the dream world, shes says it twice, once when shes confronts Homura and talks about how the dream world is nice, and secondly when she talks with kyoko and shes happy she got to meet with her again, all shown. Try to troll better. Madoka's family who have been completely rewritten. They aren't even the same people. Sayaka was happy in the original dream world. At the end, Sayaka doesnt look very fucking happy. http://imgur.com/kWksJ2i Also figured I'd add some more "happy" imagery from the end. http://imgur.com/sYHttKZ Madoka's family are the same people though as theres no evidence she creates new people, so whose speculating now huh? As for those Sayaka pics I see you have been very picky on which ones you showed, as you forgot the pics of the very last scene she is shown in where shes playing with Kyko and shes smiling and laughing in that. The fuck are you talking about? She turns and smiles to the other girls because Homuya just threatened to make Madoka hate her. Are you sure you actually watched the movie? Homura bullied Sayaka into pretending she was happy by threatening to make her life hell and turning Madoka against her. |
Apr 28, 2014 5:26 PM
#39
ElPysCongroo said: SolviteSekai said: Just look at how "happy" homura is. http://imgur.com/04Hp6CC Oh and here's a shot of her COMMITTING FUCKING SUICIDE at the end. http://imgur.com/7FMgjk8 When I think happy, I think killing myself. Why don't you guys just admit that seeing people suffer (especially QB) got you all horny inside and you couldn't wait to give this shit a 10. yawn zzzzzzzzzzzzzz. Where did I ever say Homura was happy? Yep. You don't have shit. Guess now we wait for Ssjkog or whatever to show up and start insulting me. Then I'm sure another mod will show up and delete every post that makes him look bad. |
Apr 28, 2014 5:28 PM
#40
SolviteSekai said: The fuck are you talking about? She turns and smiles to the other girls because Homuya just threatened to make Madoka hate her. Are you sure you actually watched the movie? Homura bullied Sayaka into pretending she was happy by threatening to make her life hell and turning Madoka against her. Sayaka has already forgoten the conversation with Homura by this point. The only thing Sayaka knows this point is not to trust Homura, that has no affect on her relation with the other girls. I'm not sure you watched the same film. |
Apr 28, 2014 5:32 PM
#41
ElPysCongroo said: SolviteSekai said: The fuck are you talking about? She turns and smiles to the other girls because Homuya just threatened to make Madoka hate her. Are you sure you actually watched the movie? Homura bullied Sayaka into pretending she was happy by threatening to make her life hell and turning Madoka against her. Sayaka has already forgoten the conversation with Homura by this point. The only thing Sayaka knows this point is not to trust Homura, that has no affect on her relation with the other girls. I'm not sure you watched the same film. Probably because I wasn't masterbating to how hot blood covered homura looks. |
Apr 28, 2014 7:04 PM
#42
ElPysCongroo said: Its not just speculation, its all there on the screen if you pay attention, you just sound like you just don't get it which is fine and all. Also the pacing is fine, unless your the kind of person who has ADHD, under the age of 12, or needs constant explosions to not bore you, also considering you have Monster in your favorites when has slow pacing mean something is bad? Monster is very slow paced compared to most mainstreamed stuff, ask most people why they drop Monster and I would say 9/10 times they would say because it was too slow. Also where are these contradictions you found? please I will like to seem them. And don't get me wrong I love the Haruhi film, but I don't see how the ending was that conclusive there's like several more books needed to conclude Haruhi. Hell Kyon even mentions in the film he will have to at some point go back in time to the place hes stab to save himself and the world.... and it ends with him just getting back to where he started though with a more positive outlook. Also how was Rebellion ending rushed it had a 10 min Epilogue in movie that' under 2 hours long :/ what did you expect some LotR Return of The King long epilogue? Shaftfanboyresponse.txt Well played though you forgot the obligatory bit about how I should just stick to Shonen Shit like Naruto and Bleach. SolviteSekai said: If you have to sit down and think of all kinds of fan theories to understand how something ended, that means the ending was convoluted and poorly written. That is the problem. It's just like the people who have no fucking idea what happened in Evangelion who try and play it off as deep and philosophical, even though Anno openly told reporters that the anime was pedantic and confusing for the sake of being confusing. You aren't smart for liking confusing shit. You aren't mature for liking violent/sad things. In the end its just cartoons, and the people who refuse to acknowledge them unless they are as edgy as possible come off as immature. Ghostalker said: Just want to add something, I think people are forgetting that Homura's wished wasn't been fulfilled until after she re-made the world, my best guess is that her love and despair, her desire to protect Madoka and multiple time travel and the fact she's already a witch in the start of the movie added weight until it reach the point that she was enough potential to grant a wish as big and bold as hers. This right here is a perfect example. You shouldn't have to "guess" what her motives are and add your own dumb bullshit, and most likely incorrect reasoning. You have no idea what the story was supposed to mean intentionally, because it was left wide the fuck open. Letting the viewer come up with their own ending is amateur bullshit that favors self proclaimed intellectuals and authors. I actually agree with you this time. Been arguing the same thing for this movie for a long time. It does some things alright but just sucks at sparking any renewed interest in the franchise and for me wanting to see more. It just feels like what is the point, it's clearly being artificially extended and there's clearly not any sort of standard for it to uphold. The characters have essentially been rebooted and through the conveniences of the script for this new movie can now be redefined and taken in any direction the producers choose which will more than likely be the direction the fans want to see with a little subversion thrown in to try to obfuscate the fact that the Madoka franchise is pretty much now going to be for profit fan fiction. You could even see the refocusing and consolidating of the Madoka franchise as a product unfolding within the movie. They dialed up the yuri implication and pairings with Kyoko/Sakura and Madoka/Homura pretty blatantly and made the latter pretty much the core focus of the franchise now when previously it was more of an ensemble. For people that are into that sort of thing that's great I suppose, god knows there's a lot of them, but any chance that this franchise had at me considering it particularly intellectual and engaging me on that front is pretty much lost as a result of how it's been refocused and rebooted and how loosely it treats it's characters and their motivations. It basically succeeds at being a shocking spectacle and little else in the end. Utterly forgettable and eminently disposable for all but the most devoted of fan, though with the number of those this franchise has it really shouldn't matter for it's prospects as marketable property in the long run. God knows that's what the creators care most about anyway. |
PeacingOutApr 28, 2014 7:18 PM
Apr 28, 2014 7:25 PM
#43
Anyone who's saying "this ending is made for the sake of cash cow milking" clearly hasn't watched the movie carefully enough. |
Apr 28, 2014 7:31 PM
#44
Its not my fault you didn't come up with any points that couldn't easily be refuted if you just paid attention to the film. Kaioshin_Sama said: The problem with the ending is that it barely makes any sense. There's no explanation as to how Homura is able to just take power from what is supposed to be a godlike figure nor is there much of a particular reason for why she acts the way she does in some of the scenes towards the end of the film. Madoka's main power comes from the fact shes omnipresent, but due to Kyubey's isolation field she can't regain her omnipotence until she has purified Homura soul gem this is how Kyubey plan was going to work this is explained by Kyubey, the fact shes no longer omnipresent this is clearly shown by the fact both Mami and Kyouko can see her. Homura was just using kyubeys plan for herself. Also it is shown why she acts the way she does, her soul gem is fully corrupted and as shown in the TV series it affects the mental stability of the girl. None of that is speculation that's all shown in the film. Its fine not to like it the film, but to say its all bad writing you have to come with some actual objective points. |
Apr 28, 2014 7:37 PM
#45
Kaioshin_Sama said: Ghostalker said: Just want to add something, I think people are forgetting that Homura's wished wasn't been fulfilled until after she re-made the world, my best guess is that her love and despair, her desire to protect Madoka and multiple time travel and the fact she's already a witch in the start of the movie added weight until it reach the point that she was enough potential to grant a wish as big and bold as hers. This right here is a perfect example. You shouldn't have to "guess" what her motives are and add your own dumb bullshit, and most likely incorrect reasoning. You have no idea what the story was supposed to mean intentionally, because it was left wide the fuck open. Letting the viewer come up with their own ending is amateur bullshit that favors self proclaimed intellectuals and authors. I actually agree with you this time. Been arguing the same thing for this movie for a long time. It does some things alright but just sucks at sparking any renewed interest in the franchise and for me wanting to see more. It just feels like what is the point, it's clearly being artificially extended and there's clearly not any sort of standard for it to uphold. The characters have essentially been rebooted and through the conveniences of the script for this new movie can now be redefined and taken in any direction the producers choose which will more than likely be the direction the fans want to see with a little subversion thrown in to try to obfuscate the fact that the Madoka franchise is pretty much now going to be for profit fan fiction. You could even see the refocusing and consolidating of the Madoka franchise as a product unfolding within the movie. They dialed up the yuri implication and pairings with Kyoko/Sakura and Madoka/Homura pretty blatantly and made the latter pretty much the core focus of the franchise now when previously it was more of an ensemble. For people that are into that sort of thing that's great I suppose, god knows there's a lot of them, but any chance that this franchise had at me considering it particularly intellectual and engaging me on that front is pretty much lost as a result of how it's been refocused and rebooted and how loosely it treats it's characters and their motivations. It basically succeeds at being a shocking spectacle and little else in the end. Utterly forgettable and eminently disposable for all but the most devoted of fan, though with the number of those this franchise has it really shouldn't matter for it's prospects as marketable property in the long run. God knows that's what the creators care most about anyway. Man, why does it affect you a lot if Madoka Magica is a cash cow? Let's go to your gundams, How many RX78-2 Gunplas we have on the market already? Including the re-colors, ANAs, ver.ka, from HG - PG so many variations, etc, I can't even count. Heck even if there is little improvement from MG3.0s from MG2.0s people are gonna buy it anyway, because it's the RX78-2. As long as people will buy this product they will create a whole lot of it. The industry will exploit whatever makes money. |
GhostalkerApr 28, 2014 8:00 PM
Apr 28, 2014 8:08 PM
#46
SolviteSekai said: If you have to sit down and think of all kinds of fan theories to understand how something ended, that means the ending was convoluted and poorly written. That is the problem. It's just like the people who have no fucking idea what happened in Evangelion who try and play it off as deep and philosophical, even though Anno openly told reporters that the anime was pedantic and confusing for the sake of being confusing. You aren't smart for liking confusing shit. You aren't mature for liking violent/sad things. In the end its just cartoons, and the people who refuse to acknowledge them unless they are as edgy as possible come off as immature. Yep Madoka Magica is just a cartoon, just a cartoon, yet "we" are using our precious little time arguing on it. Madoka Magica is very meaningful to me so I'm here, how about you? If it's just a cartoon why do you bother creating a thread just to voice your frustration? This show means a lot to you then. |
Apr 28, 2014 8:15 PM
#47
ElPysCongroo said: Its not my fault you didn't come up with any points that couldn't easily be refuted if you just paid attention to the film. Kaioshin_Sama said: The problem with the ending is that it barely makes any sense. There's no explanation as to how Homura is able to just take power from what is supposed to be a godlike figure nor is there much of a particular reason for why she acts the way she does in some of the scenes towards the end of the film. Madoka's main power comes from the fact shes omnipresent, but due to Kyubey's isolation field she can't regain her omnipotence until she has purified Homura soul gem this is how Kyubey plan was going to work this is explained by Kyubey, the fact shes no longer omnipresent this is clearly shown by the fact both Mami and Kyouko can see her. Homura was just using kyubeys plan for herself. Also it is shown why she acts the way she does, her soul gem is fully corrupted and as shown in the TV series it affects the mental stability of the girl. None of that is speculation that's all shown in the film. Its fine not to like it the film, but to say its all bad writing you have to come with some actual objective points. Interesting interpretation, but is that actually what happened canon wise? |
Apr 28, 2014 10:03 PM
#48
I love Rebellion, and I love that it gives us unanswered questions so we're here analyzing it, thereby learning more about the movie. If straight answers is the only way you'll be satisfied about media, then you have a little problem. |
Apr 28, 2014 11:26 PM
#49
ClearlyClarity said: I love Rebellion, and I love that it gives us unanswered questions so we're here analyzing it, thereby learning more about the movie. If straight answers is the only way you'll be satisfied about media, then you have a little problem. The problem is that what it leaves in the place of straight answers isn't particularly compelling or well realized. At least IMO. Again I don't have nearly the same extreme attachment to the Madoka mythos as so many people seemed to develop upon the conclusion of the TV series so I needed a bit more to get into this movie. I guess it really is for the hardcore fans only in the long run as far as being a great movie goes. |
Apr 29, 2014 12:05 AM
#50
I think it comes down to simple question of what kind of stories people prefer: ones where everything is wrapped up and explained or ones where somethings are implied and left up to audience interpretation. Neither one is necessarily better than the other. And while I do agree Rebellion left a lot ambiguous (I've read great theories on how Homura did it but it should've been explained more,) I love how it doesn't give us all the answers. Is it a happy or sad ending? Is Homura right or wrong? You'll get different answers depending on who you ask, which was the point according to Urobuchi. I've gotten into so many debates about this film and read so many deep theories and analyses. It's captured me on an intellectual and thematic level beyond anything I've ever seen, keeping me thinking about it months after I saw it in theaters. To me, that's the sign of a great movie. |
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