| @jackdaniels: no idea of when Refaela-Lucielia will die, but the point being that Miria isn't even aware of the thing (she knows something horrible has happened, but isn't aware what)...and how on earth can the three of them escape when the have the spawns to deal with as well as an awakened Beth? It seems impossible for them just to run away, and chapter 96 shows they haven't even considered running, so I just don't see a way out of this, except something happening to the merged being. Right now the most likely being death through exhaustion, since the organization can't do anything, the 7 can't do anything, Riful can't do anything, and Refaela-Lucielia has no real will, so I doubt it will just decide to save the destruction for later or go somewhere else. Again, it's a manga we are taking about so maybe some unwarranted power-up will happen as with the battle with Rigardo. But excluding that Yagi does something drastic like last time, I don't see any other way around it. I think we have different ideas of what 'back story' means. To me back story is something that is either outside the main plot (as with Miria), or precedes it (as with Clare and Teresa), Priscilla's story was told through the plot and was part of the plot, while we know next to nothing about the Priscilla before becoming number 2 and awakening. Her thing with Isley was part of the plot so I don't count it as back story, nor do we really learn too much about her then, just that she regressed to childhood. ;) |
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jackdaniels said: SW: The team caught in the middle of the Rafciela barrage are "running". They're just trying to get out of the battlezone (see Cynthia/Uma) and they realized that they are waaaay out of Rafciela's league. Common sense is not exactly a strong pt. with the 7 and needs the Miria leadership to get out this situation. When I say the three, I mean Clare, Helen, and Devene. Uma and Cynthia are running, but the other three are stuck at the moment. Rafeala-Lucielia is getting ready to release another round of spawns and Beth has just awaken near them. Helen mentioned that they were finished, but Clare said it's not over yet, just as Rafeala-Lucielia were getting ready to sew more spawns. This shows that Clare's group isn't thinking of running. jackdaniels said: Again, I will have to disagree with the 'exhaustion' argument. I am guessing that because the devils' were attacking last issue THEN "most" of them died in this issue (what the hell?) leaves some holes in Yagi-san's writings (too quick a pace , i guess) and that somehow fueled your exhaustion argument. Well Rigardo, Isley, and Lucielia all had quick entrances and exists. Although Isley lasted longer in manga time-wise, he wasn't around all that much. Rigardo died right after he was introduced, but his fight with Clare spanned a few chapters. Lucielia was introduced and then "died". And Isley played a prominent role in the Northern Campaign, but right after the Northern Campaign (the 7 year time skip) he was discarded. Sure he lasted a lot longer then Rigardo, and Lucielia, but villains in Claymore don't really last all that long. As for the demons, they are still alive, at least some of them, and since the Organization can keep producing them, they aren't really gone yet. But my point in all this is that maybe Rafaela-Lucielia will be like Rigardo, an impossible opponent, that lasts a few chapters. If we exclude the possibility of something as drastic as Clare half awakening again, then the only option is exhaustion. Please bear with me, this is just my opinion of how I see the events being resolved logically from the way the story has been set up to this point. I'm not arguing to say that they must be resolved this way, but rather that at the moment I see this as the most possible resolution. I can also see the problem with my position, Rafeala-Lucielia is a being with lots of power, it's very hard to imagine that it will exhaust itself easily. I agree with you here, but I just think that right now, it's removal is the only way to proceed, that is until Yagi reveals another bit of information (for example that Miria has left her post and has come to the aid of Clare's group). |
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| I would not change anything, there has been no major problem so far. Although, i do have my hopes for Irene! |
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Darkwing63 said: As for Miria, I don't think she could care less if she found a boytoy. She is more of the loner type, even though some people speculate that her and Tabitha have something going on. I don't think thier are many guys that can fit her needs. what? really? Miria and Tabitha? I would really like to hear these arguments, they must be very creative since the manga gives us next to nothing (except that the two of them tend to pair up). But that can be said of Cynthia and Uma (or Yuma), as well as Deneve and Helen. I would find it more believable that Devene and Helen have something going on, then Miria and Cynthia. *shrugs* Oh, I know you aren't suggesting this darkwings, I'm just curious about what the arguments would be and if anyone one does think so, I would like to hear why. Yeah, I second the notion that Miria having a boytoy wouldn't fit her persona, although neither does it fit with Clare's persona, so I guess it just amounts to how the set up would go (so anything can go as long as it is made believable). This is also one of the reasons that the Clare-Raki relationship seems forced. They act more like siblings or at least on Clare's part since Clare saw a direct parallel between herself and Teresa and Raki and herself, but it is obvious Raki is infatuated with her. Well, I don't know what will happen to Raki, but I do think that the eventual meeting between Clare and Raki will be tragic. Even if he remains human, his relationship with Priscilla will still make the reunion a tragic one. Although I'm hoping for something even more tragic (a la Raki becoming an experiment with no recollection of Clare). I guess it's cause I tend to like well crafted tragic tales (nothing wrong with a happy ending, I like those too, but I guess Claymore's vibe gives off a more tragic mood, so I am hoping it will follow through till the end). |
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| @darkwings: ah sorry, I just get so shocked at what some people try to say. I just cannot see how someone would draw the conclusion that Miria and Cynthia Tabitha (sorry I got confused with the names, I meant to put Tabitha XD) are involved romantically. Seems like a crack shipping to me. But anyways this doesn't really matter. @jackdaniels: On Clare's part of the relationship I agree, it is very complex. She sees herself in Raki, she wants to protect him like a younger brother, yet the time they spent together deepens their bond, and Raki gives Clare a sense of humanity. However, to me it seems painfully obviously that he is infatuated with her. When Cid hit on Clare and then kissed her, Raki was clearly jealous, but I guess you could make the point that we don't really know what the older Raki feels towards Clare. |
soaring_wingsOct 22, 2009 3:09 PM
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| @holly: just a gut feeling or do you have any hints the manga gives here or there? Interesting revelation it would be, so I'm just trying to see if there is even a bit of a hint that this is the case. Also any particular character you have in mind? You know what would be messed up? If Clare and Priscilla were sisters. Strangely enough, both lost their family more or less at the same time. Clare was dragged around by the Youma, while Priscilla was taken in by the organization. This is probably not even possible since Priscilla's father was the youma and she killed him. heh, it would be interesting if it were true though. |
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| There is no way they can be sisters, considering that Priscilla is at least 20+ years older, lost her entire family to Youma, and Claire only ever had a brother, no other siblings. |
YoungVagabond said: There is no way they can be sisters, considering that Priscilla is at least 20+ years older, lost her entire family to Youma, and Claire only ever had a brother, no other siblings. read what I wrote again. I said it is impossible because Priscilla killed the youma that was impersonating her father, while Clare was dragged around by one (and it is implied that he family was killed by youma). All I said was that the two had similar experiences with youma around the same time (I'm not sure how long it takes for one to become an official Claymore, but Priscilla was exceptional, so I she could have been promoted earlier then normal). My point was only that if Yagi ever pulled that revelation out (even if it is impossible at the moment, he could explain the impossibility away. As in Clare was taken by another youma after Priscilla killed their father and then Priscilla was taken by the organization. Each spent a couple of years away, and did not recognize the other due to the trauma associated with the event and what happened afterwords. Yeah I know this is highly implausible, but if the author wanted he could use a similar explanation) --But that is beyond the point. I just wanted to say that is Yagi ever did that, he would take the drama to a whole another level. :P |
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jackdaniels said: We do NOT have any story from Clare since she was seen by Teresa being held hostage by a yoma at the town square. We know from the very first volume that Clare had only a brother and her parents. No sister. At that point in time, Priscilla was already a full-fledged Claymore, or close to it. So there's no way they can be sisters. soaringwings said: read what I wrote again. I said it is impossible because Priscilla killed the youma that was impersonating her father, while Clare was dragged around by one (and it is implied that he family was killed by youma). How about you re-read the first volume instead? There's no "implied" anything; we KNOW that the yoma who killed Clare's family is her older brother. It was explicitly shown and mentioned on several occasions. You obviously missed or forgot that. We also know that she never had a sister. Just because this is a speculation topic, doesn't mean it needs to degenerate into baseless assumptions/fanfiction territory. hollywood said: Beyond that, no one knows Clare's origins. That's why we only know about Clare from that time forward: in the town square when Teresa saw her not flinch when she swung her sword at the yoma who traumatized her. Chapters 3 of volume 1, dude, and parts of volumes 2 and 3, if memory serves me correctly. |
YoungVagabond said: soaringwings said: read what I wrote again. I said it is impossible because Priscilla killed the youma that was impersonating her father, while Clare was dragged around by one (and it is implied that he family was killed by youma). How about you re-read the first volume instead? There's no "implied" anything; we KNOW that the yoma who killed Clare's family is her older brother. It was explicitly shown and mentioned on several occasions. You obviously missed or forgot that. We also know that she never had a sister. Just because this is a speculation topic, doesn't mean it needs to degenerate into baseless assumptions/fanfiction territory. http://www.onemanga.com/Claymore/13/09/ Here hard cold proof. It says that the youma who dragged her along was not related to her. Therefore he was not her brother or father. He simply picked her up. It is implied that she must have been an orphan for him to do that. So either that youma slaughtered her family and took her as a means to shield himself, or her family was slaughtered by another youma and she was picked up by this one. http://www.onemanga.com/Claymore/3/23/ If you are referring to the brother of Clare's mentioned here, then you are wrong. The youma was simply interpreting Clare's attachment to Raki as her seeing him as her little brother. The interpretation is wrong. Clare saw herself in Raki, not a brother and the Teresa arc shows that. If you are referring to something else, please make reference to the actual event, or better yet, provide a link. Bottom line: we know next to nothing about Clare's history pre-Teresa. So if Yagi wanted he could make them sisters, but again I stress that he would have to provide an elaborate back story to do so because the two don't seem to have any familial linkage implied, hinted or outright stated. I doubt Yagi would do this because the type of drama doesn't seem like the type of drama suited to Claymore. The Priscilla-Raki relationship is more then enough in itself for drama and conflict. ;) |
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soaring_wings said: http://www.onemanga.com/Claymore/13/09/ Here hard cold proof. It says that the youma who dragged her along was not related to her. Therefore he was not her brother or father. He simply picked her up. It is implied that she must have been an orphan for him to do that. So either that youma slaughtered her family and took her as a means to shield himself, or her family was slaughtered by another youma and she was picked up by this one. That occurred AFTER Clare's family was slaughtered by Yoma. The Yoma in the Teresa chapter is a completely different one than the one that killed Clare's family. I also love how after I wrote read volume 1 chapter 3, you brought up something in volume 3. Will the bold text be enough for even you to get it?? The yoma that killed her family was her BROTHER. Honestly, how difficult it is to read volume 1 chapter 3? Do you prefer long, rambling Internet arguments instead? It's fine to not remember something, but continually arguing about it when it would take two seconds to check the pages in question makes you look slow. Edit- There are also additional scenes with her brother killing Clare's family in volume 2. It's all there. No need for wild speculation. Just go back and read it. |
YoungVagabondNov 3, 2009 3:57 PM
jackdaniels said: YoungVagabond said: We know from the very first volume that Clare had only a brother and her parents. No sister. At that point in time, Priscilla was already a full-fledged Claymore, or close to it. So there's no way they can be sisters. Either you've got a better memory than I am or youre a Claymore-holic to remember that. Will comment further after reviewing the manga all over again.. Heh. I read from chapter 1 to 95 only about a month ago, so it's probably fresher in my head. No worries about forgetting stuff; I miss things in my favorite series all the time, too. I just wish people like soaring_wings would at least look at the chapters in question before telling me I need to re-read their post or whatever. |
soaring_wings said: http://www.onemanga.com/Claymore/3/23/ If you are referring to the brother of Clare's mentioned here, then you are wrong. The youma was simply interpreting Clare's attachment to Raki as her seeing him as her little brother. The interpretation is wrong. Clare saw herself in Raki, not a brother and the Teresa arc shows that. If you are referring to something else, please make reference to the actual event, or better yet, provide a link. Volume 1, chapter 3. Thank you for reading my whole reply. ;) I love how you completely disregard this part of my response. again thank you. edit: I actually found the flashback you refer to, and yes, she had a brother, but it was an older brother, much older, he looked like an adult in the flashback while Clare was tiny (so it is not her brother she sees in Raki, but herself). It was 2-3 pages so I forgot about it. Alright so I guess there is no way for Yagi to pull that off, but regardless I never even stated that I supported the view, only that if they were sisters, it would take the drama to another level. And anyways, I never said you were wrong, just that I did not remember the part at all, so I wanted you to either provide the link, or else it wasn't in the manga (since it was literally 3 pages, I forgot about it). I humbly bow down before your awesome memory of the Claymore manga. |
soaring_wingsNov 5, 2009 12:57 PM
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soaring_wings said: soaring_wings said: http://www.onemanga.com/Claymore/3/23/ If you are referring to the brother of Clare's mentioned here, then you are wrong. The youma was simply interpreting Clare's attachment to Raki as her seeing him as her little brother. The interpretation is wrong. Clare saw herself in Raki, not a brother and the Teresa arc shows that. If you are referring to something else, please make reference to the actual event, or better yet, provide a link. Volume 1, chapter 3. Thank you for reading my whole reply. ;) I love how you completely disregard this part of my response. again thank you. edit: I actually found the flashback you refer to, and yes, she had a brother, but it was an older brother, much older, he looked like an adult in the flashback while Clare was tiny (so it is not her brother she sees in Raki, but herself). It was 2-3 pages so I forgot about it. Alright so I guess there is no way for Yagi to pull that off, but regardless I never even stated that I supported the view, only that if they were sisters, it would take the drama to another level. And anyways, I never said you were wrong, just that I did not remember the part at all, so I wanted you to either provide the link, or else it wasn't in the manga (since it was literally 3 pages, I forgot about it). I humbly bow down before your awesome memory of the Claymore manga. You're backtracking so hard, I'm amazed you haven't tripped. That would be funny in and of itself, but the passive-aggressive insults, non-sequiters, and childish sarcasm make this downright hilarious. |
| I haven't tripped because I never contradicted myself. I was simply interpreting what you said without that crucial bit of information. Yet you still found the need to condescendingly lecture me that I did not look at volume 1 chapter 3 when I did. You could have simply pointed out that this was not the part you were referring to, but no you felt the need to be a total ass about it. I really wonder who is in fact the childish one. Go head and laugh, you clearly get amused by lecturing others about mistakes they committed by no fault of their own with your very helpful clarifications. I will admit I sank as low as you by that last remark, I guess we are both childish in our respective ways. good day to you sir. |
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