Puella Magi Madoka Magica
| You're right. Madoka shouldn't be compared to Mirai Nikki Mirai Nikki's more like a trash film, that you watch because a psychopatic pinkette is chopping people's head off and in the next minute she's acting like a perfect waifu. It's ridiculousness makes it entertaining. Too bad that it wasn't their goal with it.... Madoka on the other is genuinely a great anime. |
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november1911 said: but as we've seen from the responses to this thread no one here agrees that it is in anyway similar to Mirrai Nikki, Steins;Gate or Evangelion in any meaningful way and that's why were here. You completely ignored the parts I wrote in bold. Also someone already pointed out that people compare NGE to Madoka because both are deconstructions of their respective genres. You're the only one who disagrees with these similarities. Also the recommendations here don't say Anime (A) is exactly like Anime (B). It says If you liked (A) then you MIGHT like (B). If you didn't, that doesn't mean it's a wrong recommendation. november1911 said: I also can't help but think if we had a system in place like the reviews do where we can down vote recommendations we don't agree with then place them in order of weighted ratio as opposed to quantity we could avoid misguided recommendations altogether. Sounds cool I guess. |
BotatoApr 17, 2014 7:15 AM
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| I can't believe I will actually post on this thread, the title of the thread which starts with "SERIOUS QUESTION" should already be a tip-off that this shouldn't be taken seriously. it's troll bait. |
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| 3/10 thread The execution could be better |
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Praland said: True. I read better threads of that nature.3/10 thread The execution could be better |
| Time is money, but money won't turn back the clock. |
| Please just don't respond anymore. |
november1911 said: Ghostalker said: I can't believe I will actually post on this thread, the title of the thread which starts with "SERIOUS QUESTION" should already be a tip-off that this shouldn't be taken seriously. it's troll bait. Or, that I simply recognize many will think I'm trolling and preemptively addressed that concern, I now realize nothing I can say or do will prove I'm not but if you would like to contribute but fear egg on your face feel free to do so by prefacing your posts with "I know this is a troll but...." or "2/10 but..." To reiterate; I personally don't like Madoka (not because it's bad but because I don't like the genre) although seeing as how highly it's rated by the community I would agree if asked, that yes it's a good anime (great in fact) but as we've seen from the responses to this thread no one here agrees that it is in anyway similar to Mirrai Nikki, Steins;Gate or Evangelion in any meaningful way and that's why were here. This is just one of the many problems I have with your thread, by reading this the only thing that comes to my head is that there is no way you will appreciate this anime because by default you don't like it, so you will only look at things that agrees with your mindset, so basically replying to you is a hopeless cause. And your question "why the hell is this compared to Mirai Nikki in the recommendation", you already know the answer, because anyone could write a recommendation and if they feel that it's worth recommending then they will make one, just to bad it's not to your liking. |
GhostalkerApr 17, 2014 9:01 AM
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november1911 said: Seem's pretty thin, one animes is about time travel the other has it as a back story and devotes like one episode to it. I'm comparing what the characters go through not the freaking premise of the show. november1911 said: All of these elements are revealed in the last couple of episodes as where in Steins;Gate they are done so in the first few, if they had deployed mechs in the last 10 minutes would you recommend Gundam? Nope. Steins;Gate is a slice of life comedy with a time travel twist up until episode 11 or 12. Both shows start revealing the serious bits from the middle onwards. november1911 said: There's also a difference between loosing hope and becoming a witch and trying as hard as you can and still having trained agents put a bullet through the head of you and everyone unfortunate enough to be close to you (losing hope is something you can fight, you have control, it's not the same as Steins;Gate) Watch episode 10. Multiply what happens by 100. november1911 said: were you genuinely surprised with the "revelation" Kyube was evil? I saw that coming the first time I saw him, I didn't think it was supposed to be a twist but more of a you watch him do it and feel bad for them because they're young and gullible sorta thing. Doesn't change the fact that QB tricked the girls and betrayed them. november1911 said: Murder in the first 10 minutes, then young adults goofing off in their off time of figuring out the intricacies of time travel in order to save the world from a brim future in which the main character has responsibility as the key to all of it. As opposed to; a dream of a bad thing, non stop cuteness and girly antics for 3 episodes, then a death, then more cuteness with a tiny amount of sadness from the kid in hospital. Yes in Steins;Gate they were goofing off, and nothing serious happens for a long time and they didn't even know that the fate of the world is at stake. However in Madoka they make it clear from episode 2 that witches kill people and magical girls save the world by defeating them. In terms of art, yes it was cute. Everything else wasn't, unless you're ignoring Sayaka's breakdown and Kyouko's backstory + Madoka's powerlessness to help her friend. And that at the beginning wasn't a dream. november1911 said: "They have similarities in certain plot points that some people want. Also what the hell would be the point of them being alike? Similar doesn't mean it HAS to be EXACTLY the same." Please refer to other posts for this. Not going to bother since my point is they only need to have a couple of similarities, which everyone so far agrees upon except you. november1911 said: I take it then you agree then that Mirai Nikki is a bad recommendation, I also agree it should not really be given a psychological genre, unless you count a character being mentally insane enough to do so, but that's another discussion. Didn't say it was a bad recommendation, because they do have enough similarities. Also that was my biased opinion, which in no way changes the fact that they are both listed as psychological. I said it before but I'll say it again, psychological =/= crazy main character. november1911 said: Once again I'm not saying you can't recommend them based on that, I'm saying doing so is very misguided. You agreed that one similarity is enough. There are more than one similarity which you can't deny. november1911 said: Any similarities that emerge in the last few episodes are a terrible basis for recommendation as that leaves the vast majority of the animes foreign, i.e. I would argue a large amount of animes have identical destinations (the saving of the protagonists friends/family for instance) while the journey (means of achieving this, do they fight? if so how? with magic? weapons? or outwit their opponents?, do they simply search? etc) is what makes them different enough so that we do not feel all animes with this identical destination are the same. The fact that they are deities and time travel had little effect on the events that transpired and no difference to the feel on the animes. It's not. If people only want an anime with the character becoming a deity at the end they should be able to find that info. If two shows have a similar ending it is still a freaking similarity. A recommendation has an explanation text on what is similar in both shows, if you don't want to read why a person thinks both shows are similar then don't complain. november1911 said: "You completely ignored the parts I wrote in bold." Sorry didn't see them, not much of a forum guy. "Also someone already pointed out that people compare NGE to Madoka because both are deconstructions of their respective genres. You're the only one who disagrees with these similarities." I agree that they are both genre deconstruction but argue that is not enough for a solid recommendation is all. for most people it is "Also the recommendations here don't say Anime (A) is exactly like Anime (B). It says If you liked (A) then you MIGHT like (B). If you didn't, that doesn't mean it's a wrong recommendation." True, but I don't think that means we should chalk up poor recommendations to, it happens and eh, good enough he followed the rules after all. Sounds cool I guess. I just think it'll help the community improve the site and if we do get it all the headaches caused by this thread will of been worth it xD So basically you're saying I'm right. But you still disagree? Okay, I'm out. |
BotatoApr 17, 2014 9:05 AM
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| I hope the OP chokes on his hamburger helper tonight. Seriously. How is this thread still even open? |
november1911 said: Seem's pretty thin, one animes is about time travel the other has it as a back story and devotes like one episode to it. Okay, I know I said I'd be back when you'd watched the rest of the series after episode 8, but this reference to episode 10 proves that you have, actually - unless you're going on hearsay? I was certainly reminded of Steins;Gate when I saw Ep. 10 of Madoka. But there's another parallel here I think's worth mentioning... november1911 said: Okabe informs us of the Organization in the first episode Okabe does, it's true - but in the first episode of SG - and for several episodes after - Okabe is presented as pretty paranoid, flaky and (as he describes himself) a stereotypical mad scientist. It's a role he plays up to, aware that it has been seen a thousand times in anime and elsewhere, pretty much since Frankenstein. (No Stein unturned...) It's only in ep 9 that his paranoia is vindicated, if not in the way he expects. Madoka plays similar tricks on its viewers, and its characters. In Ep 1 Hitomi and Sayaka both recognize the "strange dream" and "mysterious transfer student" tropes from other Magical Girl stories, and even accuse Madoka of sounding like an anime character. This is very much like Steins-Gate, surely? They give us a glimpse of grim reality up front (the death of Kurisu, Madoka's dream) but presented in a way that might represent the fantasies of the protagonist. Then we are left in suspense, waiting for the other shoe to drop... |
| "Burn this sight into your minds. This is what it means to be a magical girl." |
november1911 said: But the thread isn't about whether or not I like the show, it's about whether or not it should be likened to Mirai Nikki, Steins;Gate or Evangelion So far people have been hating on Mirai saying there not alike except for time travel and Deity which many agree isn't good grounds for a recommendation, despite this I get called a troll because I don't like Madoka and think it for kids, which apparently even with the admission of the cute art work is absolutely absurd in their minds. Steins;Gate is much the same, they only have time travel in common, however one is a main plot driving element that almost all actions are linked to the other a back story and focus of only one episode and finally Evangelion is recommended because they're both genre deconstructions, except of different genres The thread title is more of a question to the community on if they agree with the recommendations/reviews and if not why they sit idly by while misinformation is spread when they are in a position to help rectify the issue So what your point? You want us to rebel against the authorities/MAL site for 'UNJUSTLY' and "BLASPHEMOUSLY" having/allowing this Madoka Magica recommendations/comparisons with the likes Mirai Nikki/Steins/Evangelion????? The problem here is not the recommendations, but "you" for not getting the bigger picture. edit: If this problem is happening the "WAY YOU SEE IT" then every recommendation from every form of entertainment that exist in MAL be it anime, manga, LN, etc... will have the same issue. So the problem is not the recommendation, but your acceptance to it. |
GhostalkerApr 17, 2014 1:23 PM
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november1911 said: Websites evolve, this thread is a case of user input, I believe there is room for improvement in MALs recommendation system similar to that of the review issue which they already fixed (you can rate reviews), this thread exists to enlighten users to that Madoka may not be an anime they would enjoy based on the current recommendations (which can save a lot of the community time and money) and to bring attention to the system that recommended it (if users who read this take more time and thought into their recommendations from here on out, good, if MAL adds a vote feature to the system as they did reviews, great) I'm 100% sure that if we get a "rate recommendation" feature here, S;G and Madoka will still be one of the top recommendations here. Also regarding the part in bold, a recommendation already says that you MAY or MAY NOT like it. So your thread is pointless. |
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november1911 said: This actually makes the two plot elements similar because Madoka's dream/premonition is also confirmed by the others (Sayaka) early on (although in one episode as opposed to three) but again, is this enough? Enough to make it worth mentioning? To me, yes - I enjoy talking about that kind of stuff. Enough for the purpose of the recommendations system on MAL? I couldn't comment on that - I'm new here and haven't explored that system, so don't know rules and conventions that have evolved around recommendations. There's a big difference between "I liked A and I also liked B so if you too liked A maybe try B because you may share my taste" and "if you liked A you should watch B because they are similar in terms of genre, tropes, artwork, plot, atmosphere, music, etc., etc., or at least some threshold number of the above." Which of these is implied by a recommendation? I got involved with this thread not because of anything directly to do with the recommendation system but because you seemed to have no way of expressing your dislike of this series other than through describing it in terms of the things that you dislike about MS shows generally, even when they're demonstrably inapplicable to this show in particular (the happy-go-lucky air, etc.). |
| "Burn this sight into your minds. This is what it means to be a magical girl." |
Botato said: november1911 said: Websites evolve, this thread is a case of user input, I believe there is room for improvement in MALs recommendation system similar to that of the review issue which they already fixed (you can rate reviews), this thread exists to enlighten users to that Madoka may not be an anime they would enjoy based on the current recommendations (which can save a lot of the community time and money) and to bring attention to the system that recommended it (if users who read this take more time and thought into their recommendations from here on out, good, if MAL adds a vote feature to the system as they did reviews, great) I'm 100% sure that if we get a "rate recommendation" feature here, S;G and Madoka will still be one of the top recommendations here. Also regarding the part in bold, a recommendation already says that you MAY or MAY NOT like it. So your thread is pointless. This^^^ I just want to add, I've been using the recommendation system of MAL whenever I feel like using it, and it's very helpful to me, of course don't expect you will get the show that you will like by just using the recommendations, while at it, might as well read the reviews concerning the show, still despite all that effort, liking a show is a matter of perspective, so it doesn't really matter if it's a very good recommendation or not, it depends on how you will like the show that was recommended to you. So again, I want to reiterate, there is nothing wrong with the recommendations, it's all about you liking or not liking the show that you watch because of the recomendation. REMEMBER: you don't rate the show here with just 2 options of "I like it " or "I don't like it" you rate the show here in a numerical score of 1 - 10, some shows will get a higher score and some shows lower, but you have 10 options not just 2. |
GhostalkerApr 18, 2014 3:21 AM
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| Okay looks like I was late to the party. I have seen both to the full, and I really don't like it being compared to Mirai Nikki. I am not the biggest fan of NK, and I find Madoka to be a masterpiece. The only aspect that they have in common is the whole kill or be killed situations that they sometimes get into. However that is the only a small bit that Madoka is a part of. The characters are NOT similar at all. I find that a chunk of Mirai Nikki characters are highly undeveloped, but Madoka seems to focus it a lot more on the characters -- especially Homura, and Madoka's relationship, or simply put Homura. I think in terms of the MAL recommendation engine people take themes that appeal to them the most in the series, and try to match it up. It's hard to find a unique anime, and find it's soulmate, so to speak. I don't know if I could sit here and actually recommend an anime like Madoka. The closest I can think of, which probably a lot of people wouldn't say yes to would the Mai-Hime, and Mai-Otome series. But again, it is pretty different. |
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november1911 said: Botato said: november1911 said: Websites evolve, this thread is a case of user input, I believe there is room for improvement in MALs recommendation system similar to that of the review issue which they already fixed (you can rate reviews), this thread exists to enlighten users to that Madoka may not be an anime they would enjoy based on the current recommendations (which can save a lot of the community time and money) and to bring attention to the system that recommended it (if users who read this take more time and thought into their recommendations from here on out, good, if MAL adds a vote feature to the system as they did reviews, great) I'm 100% sure that if we get a "rate recommendation" feature here, S;G and Madoka will still be one of the top recommendations here. Also regarding the part in bold, a recommendation already says that you MAY or MAY NOT like it. So your thread is pointless. I bet you think we also don't need a vote system for reviews as well. Once again, that does not justify the acceptance of mediocrity, if they system can be improved we should strive to do so, otherwise we may as well replace the 1-10 rating system with "Did you like this show? Yes or No. the forums, polls and any other feature not related to simply listing the anime you like which is the site original purpose. i think i can see your point... generally I've seen that people going into Madoka knowing it's psychological seem not to be impressed as much for people who are surprised. But both shows are listed as psychological (i think) so therefore it is fair to recommend them. |
november1911 said: But yea I would agree the hyping up of that scene definitely played a role in my reception to the show, however I still wouldn't of been a fan (good anime, my taste are just different is all) well i'm not an adult.. but as one of the first watchers i can probably speak for most of them. firstly, 2-3 episodes is usually the amount of time people give an anime before dropping it. secondly, most of the first watcher probably aren't turned off by the notion of "magical girls" thirdly, this show didn't even start off flowery. for a magical girl show, the first 3 episodes kinda lacked color. it also had some cool fight scenes so i would imagine they were much more tolerable than other Magical girl shows. |
Forgetfulness said: Read the title, and I have to agree. How can they be compared? Madoka Magica is a well written series while Mirai Nikki is a pile of shit. :L well that's just mean. |
Forgetfulness said: AzuStar said: Truth hurts sometimesForgetfulness said: Read the title, and I have to agree. How can they be compared? Madoka Magica is a well written series while Mirai Nikki is a pile of shit. :L well that's just mean. no only mean words are mean :L the truth only sets you free. |
november1911 said: i think i can see your point... generally I've seen that people going into Madoka knowing it's psychological seem not to be impressed as much for people who are surprised. But both shows are listed as psychological (i think) so therefore it is fair to recommend them. Well like I've said I think it's a victim of it's own success in that many people now (by reading and of the reviews or recommendations) know whats coming and aren't shocked at all but I'm curious how they attracted so many adults to the show (as that's who it's apparently targeted to) and kept them there for three episodes without telling them the twist or that one was coming. But yea I would agree the hyping up of that scene definitely played a role in my reception to the show, however I still wouldn't of been a fan (good anime, my taste are just different is all) I don't know how many shows you have already seen/watched, but let me tell you something, I will give you some background for PMMM, the anime in late 2010 is marketed to be very innocent looking/another moe-filled Magical girl show, but even then something is already amiss, first its a late night show (so clearly it's not marketed for kids), and the script is written by no other than Urobuchi Gen (who by that time is know for his notorious "saya no uta" among others), so just by this there is already an alarm that there might be something else hidden on this show. I'm one of the early adpoters of the show so I know what I'm speaking, the first few episodes undenialby tried it's best to hide its true character, but if you look carefully, you will know something is terribly wrong, the characters is acting there best to make it look like its a moe show, but the atmosphere, the background art, the setting, even the OST is sad and yelling something sinister will happen to this characters, and yep it did. For you, obviously you cannot look deeper to the show because by default you don't like Magical Girls, so anything regarding magical girls will be an automatic fail to you. As for the recommendation, try not to be a troll just because the recommendation system didn't give you what you wanted. |
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| Both have a crazy, obsessed with their love, female character that uses/used time travel. Their loved ones become gods. Is that enough? And: Madoka's cast>Minene>Shit>>>>>>Rest of MN's cast Akuma Homura>=Godoka>>>>Yuno=Yuki>Deus Also OP has a strange(spelled retarded) idea that cute girls and bright colors=instant child's show. The over the top violence, crazy shooting skills and Terminator-like maids in Black Lagoon can easily make people call it childish. |
november1911 said: ssjokg said: Both have a crazy, obsessed with their love, female character that uses/used time travel. Their loved ones become gods. Is that enough? As stated several times for a good recommendation, no, it's not enough, not even close. And: Madoka's cast>Minene>Shit>>>>>>Rest of MN's cast Akuma Homura>=Godoka>>>>Yuno=Yuki>Deus Also OP has a strange(spelled retarded) idea that cute girls and bright colors=instant child's show. The over the top violence, crazy shooting skills and Terminator-like maids in Black Lagoon can easily make people call it childish. Higurashi does an excellent job of using cute girls in a dark mature anime but in my opinion Madoka (through no fault of its own) didn't, but would argue given it's genre of magical girl it really couldn't do so unless they made them the main antagonists as they were instead of as witches. As for Black Lagoon you wouldn't be wrong is saying it was immature at times and execution but I was more referring to a specific arc in the show as opposed to the anime overall. Having sex, drugs, and gore doesn't automatically make a show a mature show thought its enough to give it a Rated-18, I don't consider Higurashi a mature show, its more pyschological, mystery and gore YES! There is a difference between a show with a mature theme and a show that is rated R-17 for something else. |
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| @november1911 Eh no.If you go to the ep discussions of Higurashi AND the eps themselves you will see that it was executed way more childish and even received as such.And unlike Madoka this change, from "childish" to dark and repeat, was one of the negatives of Higurashi since the twist is already behind us since ep1's first seconds.Madoka on the other hand wasnt making a complete 180.While it was showing school scenes or Kyoko dancing, the story didnt use comedy again and again and again in every introductory ep or more to "lighten" the mood. Having magical girls is no different from having middle school boys having some sort of super power or middle schoolers and grade schoolers having cellphones with superpowers.You have this idea that magical girls are ONLY for little girls.Magical girls(Madoka),mecha(Bokurano),ninjas(ninja scroll), or girls dicking around(Joshiraku)dont make a series "targeted at kids".Their themes, story and execution does.Moetan isnt a mature magical girl series.IS or the first, at least, Getter Robo arent mature mecha series.Naruto and K-on arent mature either. That arc wasnt any different just because it was about two traps that were treated like shit since they were really young.The execution was the same as in there rest of the series. Black Lagoon is a more "down to earth" Machete. Ghostalker said: Having sex, drugs, and gore doesn't automatically make a show a mature show thought its enough to give it a Rated-18, I don't consider Higurashi a mature show, its more pyschological, mystery and gore YES! There is a difference between a show with a mature theme and a show that is rated R-17 for something else. I think being psychological and not failing at it(Mirai Nikki,Chaos;Head) does make it mature like Madoka.It did have some problems with its execution as I said above(the comedy->tragedy loop)but I dont think that this makes it less mature. |
AzuStar said: Forgetfulness said: AzuStar said: Truth hurts sometimesForgetfulness said: Read the title, and I have to agree. How can they be compared? Madoka Magica is a well written series while Mirai Nikki is a pile of shit. :L well that's just mean. no only mean words are mean :L the truth only sets you free. That always depends on the frame of reference. For example, you won't be affect by mean, as long as they are not truth spoken. I guess the same also goes for freedom. |
| All hail the Nutcracker Queen! |
november1911 said: Botato said: november1911 said: Websites evolve, this thread is a case of user input, I believe there is room for improvement in MALs recommendation system similar to that of the review issue which they already fixed (you can rate reviews), this thread exists to enlighten users to that Madoka may not be an anime they would enjoy based on the current recommendations (which can save a lot of the community time and money) and to bring attention to the system that recommended it (if users who read this take more time and thought into their recommendations from here on out, good, if MAL adds a vote feature to the system as they did reviews, great) I'm 100% sure that if we get a "rate recommendation" feature here, S;G and Madoka will still be one of the top recommendations here. Also regarding the part in bold, a recommendation already says that you MAY or MAY NOT like it. So your thread is pointless. I bet you think we also don't need a vote system for reviews as well. Once again, that does not justify the acceptance of mediocrity, if they system can be improved we should strive to do so, otherwise we may as well replace the 1-10 rating system with "Did you like this show? Yes or No. the forums, polls and any other feature not related to simply listing the anime you like which is the site original purpose. I'm not saying I'm against the idea. Just pointing out that if we do get it, nothing will really change + pointing out that your thread is pointless. |
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