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| God,dat animation,kinda disappointed they "wasted" an entire episode with Ikalgo and Wolfin, but Togashi knows how to make a character likeable or interesting. 4/5 |
FragOutFire said: Why am I a Berserk fan? All I ever experience is pain. We are in the eclipse and Miura has sacrificed us |
| I like how they had a 2 minute recap of Netero and Merum before the fight. Roll opening. Oh no this is really going to be about Ikalgo. Good stuff... But really it was a good episode. |
MrAM said: Someone give this man a prize for best post of the weekIkalgo's becoming quite the infamous character in the fandom... :P I was hoping for a continuation of the Netero vs. The King conflict, and admittedly was slightly disappointed when I discovered this week's episode would be about Ikalgo and Ikalgo only. However, this being HunterXHunter, the episode still ended up being great. Not as incredible as the last two, but a solid episode in its own right. It's fascinating how much happened in this episode, and how much didn't. It was basically Ikalgo facing down Welfin in a small room, and ended with Ikalgo leaving. Despite that, Togashi managed to enrich their conversation with so much depth and character development that it ended up being a pleasure to watch. The best part of the episode was Welfin, and it was really about him more than Ikalgo. His dialogue in the beginning was a continuation of the reflection he had back a few episodes ago: that he was incredibly weak, more than he realized. I liked how his Nen ability was used throughout the episode as a metaphor for his personality and intentions, to the degree that Ikalgo was able to use the worms in his head as a truth/lie detector. Of course, their disintegration at the end of the episode is meant to represent the disintegration of Welfin's former personality, the one that was composed of constant lying and deceit. The use of worms to represent who he is- or used to be- as a person is extremely fitting, as worms in fiction tend to symbolize moral corruption and the like. Lots of irony in this episode as well, as per the course for the CA. The obvious one, of course, is Welfin's powers being used against him and being a key to his downfall. It's basically a metaphor for how the Ant's devious actions and personality led to his loss of the showdown, keeping with one of the larger themes of the whole arc. Something that Welfin though to himself stood out to me as well: that Ikalgo was especially fearsome because he was willing to put his life on the line to perform his duty. The irony here is that Welfin, being the Ant who is supposed to be loyal to the King, is the one who'd spent the past few days plotting against his species and generally just attempting to use the Invasion for his personal gain, without regard to loyalty and integrity. Ikalgo, the one who ditched the Ants and joined the human side, is displaying more Ant-like characteristics than the one who is supposed to be on their side. Togashi has highlighted this irony before, and we see it playing out here again as well. I really liked the small backstory that Welfin got. Hearing how he used to be with the NGL and personally knew Gyro the way he did was a bit unexpected but made sense. Of course he'd have bonded with Gyro, considering the fact that they both had terrible childhoods and terrible parents. I'm pleased to see the name 'Gyro' return to the main plot, considering that he was mentioned over 20 episodes ago and then forgotten about. As expected though, Togasi never forgets a thing he writes. And so Welfin completes his character arc, starting off as a selfish, cowardly liar, before being humbled by events around him and transitioning into a better person who can finally speak the truth. It's pretty astonishing, and amusing in a way, that Togashi is so obsessed with detail that he bothered to give a character as minor as Welfin so much development, but I'm not complaining. The more the better. |
FragOutFire said: Why am I a Berserk fan? All I ever experience is pain. We are in the eclipse and Miura has sacrificed us |
| love character development so much... |
| Well Madhouse sure trolled me good. |
| @ FlareStar101 MrAM has consistently great posts, though. |
| "Yes, I have been deprived of emotion. But not completely. Whoever did it, botched the job." - Geralt of Rivia |
MrAM said: Ikalgo's becoming quite the infamous character in the fandom... :P I was hoping for a continuation of the Netero vs. The King conflict, and admittedly was slightly disappointed when I discovered this week's episode would be about Ikalgo and Ikalgo only. However, this being HunterXHunter, the episode still ended up being great. Not as incredible as the last two, but a solid episode in its own right. It's fascinating how much happened in this episode, and how much didn't. It was basically Ikalgo facing down Welfin in a small room, and ended with Ikalgo leaving. Despite that, Togashi managed to enrich their conversation with so much depth and character development that it ended up being a pleasure to watch. The best part of the episode was Welfin, and it was really about him more than Ikalgo. His dialogue in the beginning was a continuation of the reflection he had back a few episodes ago: that he was incredibly weak, more than he realized. I liked how his Nen ability was used throughout the episode as a metaphor for his personality and intentions, to the degree that Ikalgo was able to use the worms in his head as a truth/lie detector. Of course, their disintegration at the end of the episode is meant to represent the disintegration of Welfin's former personality, the one that was composed of constant lying and deceit. The use of worms to represent who he is- or used to be- as a person is extremely fitting, as worms in fiction tend to symbolize moral corruption and the like. Lots of irony in this episode as well, as per the course for the CA. The obvious one, of course, is Welfin's powers being used against him and being a key to his downfall. It's basically a metaphor for how the Ant's devious actions and personality led to his loss of the showdown, keeping with one of the larger themes of the whole arc. Something that Welfin though to himself stood out to me as well: that Ikalgo was especially fearsome because he was willing to put his life on the line to perform his duty. The irony here is that Welfin, being the Ant who is supposed to be loyal to the King, is the one who'd spent the past few days plotting against his species and generally just attempting to use the Invasion for his personal gain, without regard to loyalty and integrity. Ikalgo, the one who ditched the Ants and joined the human side, is displaying more Ant-like characteristics than the one who is supposed to be on their side. Togashi has highlighted this irony before, and we see it playing out here again as well. I really liked the small backstory that Welfin got. Hearing how he used to be with the NGL and personally knew Gyro the way he did was a bit unexpected but made sense. Of course he'd have bonded with Gyro, considering the fact that they both had terrible childhoods and terrible parents. I'm pleased to see the name 'Gyro' return to the main plot, considering that he was mentioned over 20 episodes ago and then forgotten about. As expected though, Togasi never forgets a thing he writes. And so Welfin completes his character arc, starting off as a selfish, cowardly liar, before being humbled by events around him and transitioning into a better person who can finally speak the truth. It's pretty astonishing, and amusing in a way, that Togashi is so obsessed with detail that he bothered to give a character as minor as Welfin so much development, but I'm not complaining. The more the better. Damn man, this is a brilliant post. I really want to save it somewhere where I can read up on it again. If I was as articulate, this is what I would be saying to my brother, who is always complaining about these episodes having "too much talking". I really love the analysis you gave this episode. Just shows how truly amazing a writer Togashi is. The fact that you can get something so deep from an episode of "minor" characters says A LOT. +1 |
jreginald said: Damn man, this is a brilliant post. I really want to save it somewhere where I can read up on it again. If I was as articulate, this is what I would be saying to my brother, who is always complaining about these episodes having "too much talking". I really love the analysis you gave this episode. Just shows how truly amazing a writer Togashi is. The fact that you can get something so deep from an episode of "minor" characters says A LOT. +1 Agreed. Guardian Enzo, as usual, also reflected my own thoughts on the episode better than I ever could have. |
| @insan3Spectre Good to know, I shall look forward to them XP |
FragOutFire said: Why am I a Berserk fan? All I ever experience is pain. We are in the eclipse and Miura has sacrificed us |
| I guess that was Pouf's cocoon then |
Suitedup said: I guess that was Pouf's cocoon then nah it was Palm's |
 |
| So can anyone answer my question about Welfin's Missile Man? It's a few posts up - #82. |
diivil said: jreginald said: So how exactly does Welfin's "Missile Man" ability work? I'm not sure if it's just translations that got me confused but did it FAIL against Ikalgo? Cause when he said the weakness of the ability, he says two somewhat different things between Manga & Anime Manga Translation (OneManga.me): "My Missile Man attack is reactionary, so it requires strategy." Anime Translation (Crunchyroll): "Missile Man requires questions and answers to work. If an enemy attacks before I can ask a question, it's null and void!" So both translations show the same principle but the manga translation doesn't exactly say that it failed. And later on during the episode (and in the manga), Welfin even says that he doesn't know how to deactivate Missile Man. So then that must mean that the centipedes did come from Missile Man and it did work so... it wasn't null and void? Just a little bit confused here. I also thought that Missile Man was actually going to blow up its target upon impact. Especially with translations like:" No one can survive the impact." (Anime) and "Nobody has survived taking one of those hits." (Manga) So are there two components to Missile Man? (Explosion or Centipede) or is it just the Black Centipede itself? The attack against ikalgo succescceded ( by the missiles hitting him) i think it only fails(missfires) if welfin incorrectly identifies his target, as in the case with welfin and meleoron(ep115). essentially how the ability works is that Welfin loads a missile round in a form of a question or order and if the target disobeys or lies welfin lunches the missles which continuously chase the target until they hit. When hit, black centipedes burrow into the target's body. The target then experiences a great deal of pain and must do as Welfin says, for an act of defiance will cause the centipedes to grow faster eventually leading to the target's death. But through a series of negotiation, if at any point Welfin tells the truth or admits defeat in the deal or if the target tells the truth, the centipedes will be in pain, weaken and eventually die. I am Not too sure about the right translation of the weakness part that welfin mentioned, but i think it basically means that if the enemy attacks or take action before welfin can ask a question or give an order, then it puts welfin at a disavantage. I don't think that the translation is talking about the direct impact but just that no one has survived and probably can't survive having the centipede hatch out of their body( it is attacking you from the internally afterall). But if the centipedes still work even when Welfin did not ask a question, then the question part is pointless and makes no sense. I noticed that too and I'm glad someone has already pointed that out. |
| "Let Justice Be Done!" My Theme Fight again, fight again for justice! |
diivil said: jreginald said: So how exactly does Welfin's "Missile Man" ability work? I'm not sure if it's just translations that got me confused but did it FAIL against Ikalgo? Cause when he said the weakness of the ability, he says two somewhat different things between Manga & Anime Manga Translation (OneManga.me): "My Missile Man attack is reactionary, so it requires strategy." Anime Translation (Crunchyroll): "Missile Man requires questions and answers to work. If an enemy attacks before I can ask a question, it's null and void!" So both translations show the same principle but the manga translation doesn't exactly say that it failed. And later on during the episode (and in the manga), Welfin even says that he doesn't know how to deactivate Missile Man. So then that must mean that the centipedes did come from Missile Man and it did work so... it wasn't null and void? Just a little bit confused here. I also thought that Missile Man was actually going to blow up its target upon impact. Especially with translations like:" No one can survive the impact." (Anime) and "Nobody has survived taking one of those hits." (Manga) So are there two components to Missile Man? (Explosion or Centipede) or is it just the Black Centipede itself? The attack against ikalgo succescceded ( by the missiles hitting him) i think it only fails(missfires) if welfin incorrectly identifies his target, as in the case with welfin and meleoron(ep115). essentially how the ability works is that Welfin loads a missile round in a form of a question or order and if the target disobeys or lies welfin lunches the missles which continuously chase the target until they hit. When hit, black centipedes burrow into the target's body. The target then experiences a great deal of pain and must do as Welfin says, for an act of defiance will cause the centipedes to grow faster eventually leading to the target's death. But through a series of negotiation, if at any point Welfin tells the truth or admits defeat in the deal or if the target tells the truth, the centipedes will be in pain, weaken and eventually die. I am Not too sure about the right translation of the weakness part that welfin mentioned, but i think it basically means that if the enemy attacks or take action before welfin can ask a question or give an order, then it puts welfin at a disavantage. I don't think that the translation is talking about the direct impact but just that no one has survived and probably can't survive having the centipede hatch out of their body( it is attacking you from the internally afterall). Missleman is a very powerful ability, but welfin bieng a weak coward doesn't truly understands his ability, for example how to deactivate it at will or even most of its own weakness because all he cares about is himself and ironically for a guy who thinks a lot and over analyses everything he doesnt give time to really think about or analyse the true potential of his ability. like sated by welfin himself, he just though " atack to kill, who cares about what happens after" when making the ability. Attacking constitutes as disobeying the order, the missiles are shot. Plain and simple. But better shoot back than talk back. If this were the King, welfin might have died before the missiles hit. He did ask the question/order. The twist was that ikalgo answered with a shot. |
| An episode featuring two characters. Of the least importance, and manages to have so much progression, development and emotion. Only Togashi is insane/genius enough to pull that off. I remember how much I liked the great deal of detail given to the powers as well. Like most said, however, Mori should have been given next episode. But they can't controll the rotations. |
diivil said: RedRoseFring said: diivil said: jreginald said: So how exactly does Welfin's "Missile Man" ability work? I'm not sure if it's just translations that got me confused but did it FAIL against Ikalgo? Cause when he said the weakness of the ability, he says two somewhat different things between Manga & Anime Manga Translation (OneManga.me): "My Missile Man attack is reactionary, so it requires strategy." Anime Translation (Crunchyroll): "Missile Man requires questions and answers to work. If an enemy attacks before I can ask a question, it's null and void!" So both translations show the same principle but the manga translation doesn't exactly say that it failed. And later on during the episode (and in the manga), Welfin even says that he doesn't know how to deactivate Missile Man. So then that must mean that the centipedes did come from Missile Man and it did work so... it wasn't null and void? Just a little bit confused here. I also thought that Missile Man was actually going to blow up its target upon impact. Especially with translations like:" No one can survive the impact." (Anime) and "Nobody has survived taking one of those hits." (Manga) So are there two components to Missile Man? (Explosion or Centipede) or is it just the Black Centipede itself? The attack against ikalgo succescceded ( by the missiles hitting him) i think it only fails(missfires) if welfin incorrectly identifies his target, as in the case with welfin and meleoron(ep115). essentially how the ability works is that Welfin loads a missile round in a form of a question or order and if the target disobeys or lies welfin lunches the missles which continuously chase the target until they hit. When hit, black centipedes burrow into the target's body. The target then experiences a great deal of pain and must do as Welfin says, for an act of defiance will cause the centipedes to grow faster eventually leading to the target's death. But through a series of negotiation, if at any point Welfin tells the truth or admits defeat in the deal or if the target tells the truth, the centipedes will be in pain, weaken and eventually die. I am Not too sure about the right translation of the weakness part that welfin mentioned, but i think it basically means that if the enemy attacks or take action before welfin can ask a question or give an order, then it puts welfin at a disavantage. I don't think that the translation is talking about the direct impact but just that no one has survived and probably can't survive having the centipede hatch out of their body( it is attacking you from the internally afterall). But if the centipedes still work even when Welfin did not ask a question, then the question part is pointless and makes no sense. I noticed that too and I'm glad someone has already pointed that out. I am a bit riddled too by this. maybe someone who better understands the translation can better clarify what it meant . From the manga: 1. Welfin may only use Missileman as a tool of negotiation as part of his vow. It would not work or misfire otherwise, or in case of identifying the wrong target. he could have made it much more destructive by adding a punishment too, like Kurapika... like they would fire back at him. But then again, it's too risky as seen in the case of Meleoron. 3. Welfen loads a missile round in a form of a question or an order. Welfin: "Don't move or I'll kill you". Edit: I see the confusion, the anime subtitles say: Missile man only works with a question, otherwise it's null and void" That's incorrect, the manga says: "My attack is reactionary, so it requires strategy" Technically, the subs did not mistranslate, they just made it confusing. What's null and void is not the missiles (as in blank shots), but the whole point of the attack is to extract information, they only activate upon reaction, so they will never, ever draw first blood, which is a great disadvantage. |
TonyTonyStarkApr 3, 2014 11:59 AM
| Wait I don't understand this timewise. In episode 119, Ikalgo leaves Bloster and that's when Welfin claims that he was with Hina, Bizeff, and Shidore at the time. However in episode 120, Welfin is seen following them still in hostility. Wait what? |
| I take it that Episode 125 will be... *puts on sunglasses* Rather rosy. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA~ |
bewareofhisoka said: Wait I don't understand this timewise. In episode 119, Ikalgo leaves Bloster and that's when Welfin claims that he was with Hina, Bizeff, and Shidore at the time. However in episode 120, Welfin is seen following them still in hostility. Wait what? Umm... you do realize they are showing things happening simultaneously? In other words, Pouf escaping, trolling morel and scanning the area happened at the time Welfin was stalking them. Episode 119 shows the welfin arc in its own progressing present time. That's the whole format of the invasion actually, whenver they shift to a new set of characters, depending on the corresponding events and elapsed time of its own, it's not really a follow-up. @Grouchio, 126* |
| Yea nevermind. I figured it out. Thanks |
| It went from badass to piece of sht. screw continuity! palm gets a prayer bump and gon x killua still doing their little BL on the previews. 10/10 |
| My Guitar Covers: Playlist I CAN ALWAYS SHOW MY EVERYTHING TO YOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOUUUU |
| Dem wolf feels. I wish we could see Gyro again. |
 |
TonyTonyStark said: From the manga: 1. Welfin may only use Missileman as a tool of negotiation as part of his vow. It would not work or misfire otherwise, or in case of identifying the wrong target. he could have made it much more destructive by adding a punishment too, like Kurapika... like they would fire back at him. But then again, it's too risky as seen in the case of Meleoron. 3. Welfen loads a missile round in a form of a question or an order. Welfin: "Don't move or I'll kill you". Edit: I see the confusion, the anime subtitles say: Missile man only works with a question, otherwise it's null and void" That's incorrect, the manga says: "My attack is reactionary, so it requires strategy" Technically, the subs did not mistranslate, they just made it confusing. What's null and void is not the missiles (as in blank shots), but the whole point of the attack is to extract information, they only activate upon reaction, so they will never, ever draw first blood, which is a great disadvantage. Okay thanks! I get it now. Your explanation makes the anime's translation A LOT clearer for me. So using Missile Man as a negotiation tool pretty much failed when Ikalgo decided to shoot him. Gotcha! |
MrAM said: Ikalgo's becoming quite the infamous character in the fandom... :P I was hoping for a continuation of the Netero vs. The King conflict, and admittedly was slightly disappointed when I discovered this week's episode would be about Ikalgo and Ikalgo only. However, this being HunterXHunter, the episode still ended up being great. Not as incredible as the last two, but a solid episode in its own right. It's fascinating how much happened in this episode, and how much didn't. It was basically Ikalgo facing down Welfin in a small room, and ended with Ikalgo leaving. Despite that, Togashi managed to enrich their conversation with so much depth and character development that it ended up being a pleasure to watch. The best part of the episode was Welfin, and it was really about him more than Ikalgo. His dialogue in the beginning was a continuation of the reflection he had back a few episodes ago: that he was incredibly weak, more than he realized. I liked how his Nen ability was used throughout the episode as a metaphor for his personality and intentions, to the degree that Ikalgo was able to use the worms in his head as a truth/lie detector. Of course, their disintegration at the end of the episode is meant to represent the disintegration of Welfin's former personality, the one that was composed of constant lying and deceit. The use of worms to represent who he is- or used to be- as a person is extremely fitting, as worms in fiction tend to symbolize moral corruption and the like. Lots of irony in this episode as well, as per the course for the CA. The obvious one, of course, is Welfin's powers being used against him and being a key to his downfall. It's basically a metaphor for how the Ant's devious actions and personality led to his loss of the showdown, keeping with one of the larger themes of the whole arc. Something that Welfin though to himself stood out to me as well: that Ikalgo was especially fearsome because he was willing to put his life on the line to perform his duty. The irony here is that Welfin, being the Ant who is supposed to be loyal to the King, is the one who'd spent the past few days plotting against his species and generally just attempting to use the Invasion for his personal gain, without regard to loyalty and integrity. Ikalgo, the one who ditched the Ants and joined the human side, is displaying more Ant-like characteristics than the one who is supposed to be on their side. Togashi has highlighted this irony before, and we see it playing out here again as well. I really liked the small backstory that Welfin got. Hearing how he used to be with the NGL and personally knew Gyro the way he did was a bit unexpected but made sense. Of course he'd have bonded with Gyro, considering the fact that they both had terrible childhoods and terrible parents. I'm pleased to see the name 'Gyro' return to the main plot, considering that he was mentioned over 20 episodes ago and then forgotten about. As expected though, Togasi never forgets a thing he writes. And so Welfin completes his character arc, starting off as a selfish, cowardly liar, before being humbled by events around him and transitioning into a better person who can finally speak the truth. It's pretty astonishing, and amusing in a way, that Togashi is so obsessed with detail that he bothered to give a character as minor as Welfin so much development, but I'm not complaining. The more the better. I genuinely love how consistently amazing your episode analyses are. With the great observational and writing skills you posses I'm surprised someone like you doesn't have their own blog or perhaps even a youtube channel for weekly episode breakdowns (or maybe you do) Nice work again MrAM, I look forward to reading your posts every week :) same with Guardian Enzo |
| I wanted Netero vs The King fuck my lyfe |
| Granted the Ikalgo parts of the invasion aren't my favourite, not that I don't like Ikalgo, it's just compared to the other parts, it's not as interesting, but this episode made me like, I mean the music, VA, the animation (especially when Welfin's eyes started to water) was brilliant. My favourite part was going into Welfin's past and learning his relationship with Gyro, especially since NGL has been on the backburner since the King was born, which is a shame as one reason the CA arc is my favourite arc in anime was the political themes in the arc and I find NGL (and East Gorteau) to be an interesting place especially since I'm a politics student, so seeing more of NGL was a plus. |
| "Now, let us drink. Let us drink. Drink to the human race. In every age, there will be good humans and bad humans. Human life is too long to devote to reproduction, yet too short to devote to learning, in the helix of time. Perhaps that is why humans succumb to desire and seek release. Despite the fact that life is complete with the sun, the land and poetry." Supreme Leader Diego(Real) (Hunter x Hunter 2011) |
| "So you've been waiting for Netero vs The King for the whole arc? Fuck that shit, we'll give you some more on that shitty octopus". It was a chore to force myself through this shit. I would actually like Ikalgo if Togashi didn't do such a crappy job with his screen time. |
MinagatachiApr 4, 2014 4:15 PM
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Minagatachi said: "So you've been waiting for Netero vs The King for the whole arc? Fuck that shit, we'll give you some more on that shitty octopus". It was a chore to force myself through this shit. I would actually like Ikalgo if Togashi didn't do such a crappy job with his screen time. Lol except he didn't do a crappy job. I mean, just take a look at what MrAM was able to bring out from this entire episode. |
jreginald said: I would be fine with this episode if it was shown before all the Netero vs King hype took over, but because that didn't happen I now just feel screwed over. I should rephrase my last sentence, I would actually like Ikalgo if Tofashi didn't do such a crappy job in the placement of his screen time. Minagatachi said: "So you've been waiting for Netero vs The King for the whole arc? Fuck that shit, we'll give you some more on that shitty octopus". It was a chore to force myself through this shit. I would actually like Ikalgo if Togashi didn't do such a crappy job with his screen time. Lol except he didn't do a crappy job. I mean, just take a look at what MrAM was able to bring out from this entire episode. |
| Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
Minagatachi said: jreginald said: I would be fine with this episode if it was shown before all the Netero vs King hype took over, but because that didn't happen I now just feel screwed over.Minagatachi said: "So you've been waiting for Netero vs The King for the whole arc? Fuck that shit, we'll give you some more on that shitty octopus". It was a chore to force myself through this shit. I would actually like Ikalgo if Togashi didn't do such a crappy job with his screen time. Lol except he didn't do a crappy job. I mean, just take a look at what MrAM was able to bring out from this entire episode. Eh, I'm totally fine with it. I really enjoy Ikalgo's character and the way they portrayed this episode was 10x greater than it was in the manga (even though it followed it to the dot). Maybe it's because I already know how things go but I really liked this episode. Sure it's not as great as King vs. Netero type of things but it was still great nonetheless. |
Minagatachi said: I wholeheartedly believe that this episode was partly an April Fools' prank by MadHouse.I would be fine with this episode if it was shown before all the Netero vs King hype took over, but because that didn't happen I now just feel screwed over. I should rephrase my last sentence, I would actually like Ikalgo if Tofashi didn't do such a crappy job in the placement of his screen time. |
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jreginald said: Minagatachi said: "So you've been waiting for Netero vs The King for the whole arc? Fuck that shit, we'll give you some more on that shitty octopus". It was a chore to force myself through this shit. I would actually like Ikalgo if Togashi didn't do such a crappy job with his screen time. Lol except he didn't do a crappy job. I mean, just take a look at what MrAM was able to bring out from this entire episode. What does it matter, if someone would find it uninteresting (like me) and it being irrelevant to the main plot? I mean Togashi could present the deepest themes and the best character depth you can think of into a side character, but he is still a side character. Their existence only drags out the arc. Focusing on side characters that are irrelevant to the main plot is not something I can appreciate, no matter how ''omg so deep and so different'' it is. And I think they are horrible characters in the first place, so it only makes it worse.. |
 |
| Ah, I knew there was something that made me like Welfin from the start, beside the eery resemblance to some sort of Yamato Ishida/Metalgarurumon-mutation. I like it when 'bad guys' turn good, haha. Also, wtf, Palm turned into an Ant. |
tsudecimo said: jreginald said: Minagatachi said: "So you've been waiting for Netero vs The King for the whole arc? Fuck that shit, we'll give you some more on that shitty octopus". It was a chore to force myself through this shit. I would actually like Ikalgo if Togashi didn't do such a crappy job with his screen time. Lol except he didn't do a crappy job. I mean, just take a look at what MrAM was able to bring out from this entire episode. What does it matter, if someone would find it uninteresting (like me) and it being irrelevant to the main plot? I mean Togashi could present the deepest themes and the best character depth you can think of into a side character, but he is still a side character. Their existence only drags out the arc. Focusing on side characters that are irrelevant to the main plot is not something I can appreciate, no matter how ''omg so deep and so different'' it is. And I think they are horrible characters in the first place, so it only makes it worse.. Agreed. Not even going to bother saying anything this episode, it doesn't deserve it. |
| Damn,I wish that damn pussctopus would just roll over and die and stop taking the screen time. Palm :( |
tsudecimo said: What does it matter, if someone would find it uninteresting (like me) and it being irrelevant to the main plot? I mean Togashi could present the deepest themes and the best character depth you can think of into a side character, but he is still a side character. Their existence only drags out the arc. Focusing on side characters that are irrelevant to the main plot is not something I can appreciate, no matter how ''omg so deep and so different'' it is. And I think they are horrible characters in the first place, so it only makes it worse.. Man, I just don't agree with this on a fundamental level at all. First of all, I would argue that Ikalgo is definitely a main character in this arc, just like every other character shown in the Ending. So, I just don't get the argument of him being a side character. Also, I just fail to see how giving depth to a minor character like Welfin is a bad thing. It also actually ties into the theme of identity, that was also touched on last week with the King and his wanting to know his name. That, and Gyro was brought back up, and I have a strong feeling this character will be important whenever Togashi decides to pick the manga back up. So, not only does it develop Welfin, it actually does support the story of Chimera Ant and it's themes. |
| "Yes, I have been deprived of emotion. But not completely. Whoever did it, botched the job." - Geralt of Rivia |
insan3Spectre said: Man, I just don't agree with this on a fundamental level at all. First of all, I would argue that Ikalgo is definitely a main character in this arc, just like every other character shown in the Ending. So, I just don't get the argument of him being a side character. Also, I just fail to see how giving depth to a minor character like Welfin is a bad thing. It also actually ties into the theme of identity, that was also touched on last week with the King and his wanting to know his name. That, and Gyro was brought back up, and I have a strong feeling this character will be important whenever Togashi decides to pick the manga back up. So, not only does it develop Welfin, it actually does support the story of Chimera Ant and it's themes. Yes, this is a disagreement on fundamentals. Ikaglo is not a main character in this arc (factually so, but this will lead into a whole other argument). He is a side character because he is little sub plot and his existence have literally no effect on the main plot. The sub plot does have a bit of relevance, but it's nothing major or close to it, and it doesn't have noteworthy effects. The chameleon is more important than him, and he is actually relevant to the main plot, but I would still call him a supporting character and not a main character in this arc. Because it's a colossal waste of time and space on the panels/chapters/episodes' from my perspective, the same goes for Ikaglo's screen time and ''depth''. I'm interested in the main plot, like any normal person with normal expectations regarding the story would. I don't care for their boring and vapid nonsense. I'm only interested in themes, if they are explored through the relevant and important characters, I'm not interested in the themes themselves. They alone mean nothing to me, but explored through the King, is what I want and expect. You see that's problem, this is a build up for a possible future story, it has no connection with the Chimera arc. It does not support the story of the Chimera arc, since it's feels like a detached side story. This was on of my problems with the first half of this arc, there were a lot of stuff, that are not important and were draggy. I mean look at all the screen time that stupid Cheeta got, yet in the end when the story reached it's final phase, he got randomly squashed by Silva. From all those past Chimera ant, only handful of them were relevant to the final phase and the conclusion to the arc, they barely had any effect on the overall story, yet they were given screen time, that dragged this arc for far too long. To bring up a hypothetical example. Imagine if in Naruto, a character like Shino was given three episodes worth of time and a sub plot, in the middle of Naruto confrontation with Pain, and instead of showing Naruto vs Pain, you get to see Shino's subplot in the middle of the fight. Adding development and ''depth'' to minor and side characters is not an inherently good thing, especially if they don't affect the plot. Since development = screen time. Which can take away from more important stuff, that's the reader/watcher is interested in. It puts pauses on an engaging story, for the sake of something that is not even relevant to the main attraction and meat of the story. I personally don't care for it and I can't fathom why would someone appreciate it, and it's only worse when I don't find Ikaglo and Welfin even remotely interesting, their characterization is just too generic and boring for me. |
tsudecimoApr 5, 2014 8:44 AM
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| LOL. We got an episode of Welfin... hahaha, such a coward. Can't wait to see Palm now. |
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| But, Ikalgo IS important to the arc. Specifically the invasion, if he had went on the mission with the Hunters and then not be seen throughout the rest of the arc, then that would have been just plain bad writing imo. I know you know how the arc ultimately ends and it may be true that Ikalgo doesn't do anything for the rest of the arc, but that doesn't change the fact that he's had an influence on events already. He's taken out two possible thorns in the side of the Hunter's/Meleoreon, and his encounter's with Bro and Welfin further explore the themes of the arc. You say that you only care if the themes are explored through major characters, but why? Why shouldn't Togashi explore the themes of Identity/Humanity through all of his characters? About Cheetu, he was an idiot through and through. Everything he did was idiotic, so I don't see him getting killed by Silva as "random" so much as him being a dumbass for challenging a man, Zeno, who was obviously superior to him. He was dead as soon as he wouldn't leave the man alone, regardless of Silva attacking or not. Well, my biggest complaint with the Pain arc is that the other characters didn't do much at all. It eventually boiled down to just Naruto vs. Pain and I think that was just a waste of a great cast of characters. So, if Shino and everyone else did get involved in something during that invasion, assuming I ultimately come to think it was well done, I would probably view it as an improvement of the arc. I'll try to explain the way I see this development of characters thing. The way Chimera Ant has focused on these different characters, perhaps despite their relatively minor roles, is great for me. Pretty much every one of these characters has their own personal stakes and view points and I love that Togashi has been exploring each of them. It seems you are more of a plot person, but as a guy who ultimately cares more about characters and what makes them tick, Chimera Ant may as well have been created specifically for me. Because it hits pretty much everything I want. I do want to say that Ikalgo and Welfin are nowhere near my favorites of this arc. The King is definitely my favorite character of not only this arc but of the series, so at first I was a bit disappointed by the switch to Ikalgo. I just personally thought the content more than made up for it. Also, I don't know if you ever read GuardianEnzo's blogs about HxH but he mentioned his "disconnect" with those that don't like what the arc is doing. I think that is what is going on between us. |
Ston3_FreeN7Apr 5, 2014 9:42 AM
| "Yes, I have been deprived of emotion. But not completely. Whoever did it, botched the job." - Geralt of Rivia |
insan3Spectre said: But, Ikalgo IS important to the arc. Specifically the invasion, if he had went on the mission with the Hunters and then not be seen throughout the rest of the arc, then that would have been just plain bad writing imo. I know you know how the arc ultimately ends and it may be true that Ikalgo doesn't do anything for the rest of the arc, but that doesn't change the fact that he's had an influence on events already. He's taken out two possible thorns in the side of the Hunter's/Meleoreon, and his encounter's with Bro and Welfin further explore the themes of the arc. You say that you only care if the themes are explored through major characters, but why? Why shouldn't Togashi explore the themes of Identity/Humanity through all of his characters? He is not an important character, I don't understand how can you say something like this. Ikaglo literally and I do mean quite literally has no effect whatsoever on the main story or the main characters. The only thing I can make of this, is that you a have a different definition of the word 'important'. And you keep saying he is important but not explaining how. It's bad writing that Ikaglo is part of the invasion, yet he doesn't affect anything, Meleoreon does, so why is he not. That would be true if Bhermovda (or however you spell that) was actually a danger to anything, he wasn't, any hunter could have taken him out easily, and Meleoreon, would use his ability to avoid him, like how he did with Welfin. Those two characters presented 0% danger to the hunters and their mission to take out the Royal Guards and the King. How important are those themes? if they were already explored with the King? I mean it's not like the themes couldn't have been explored if it weren't for them. Because I care about the King, his developments, conflicts and the theme relating to him. I can not care however for a useless uninteresting Octopus and a paranoid Wolf. And I'm more than okay with him exploring the deepest themes he can present but not on the expense of the flow of the main story. If Ikaglo subplot had relevance to the the main plot, then I have no qualms with it, but it wasn't. So from my point of view, it's a waste of time. insan3Spectre said: About Cheetu, he was an idiot through and through. Everything he did was idiotic, so I don't see him getting killed by Silva as "random" so much as him being a dumbass for challenging a man, Zeno, who was obviously superior to him. He was dead as soon as he wouldn't leave the man alone, regardless of Silva attacking or not. Ummm, looks like you missed my point. My problem wasn't how he died. My problem that he had no relevance or part in the invasion. He was discarded as a useless bug, despite having a decent amount of screen time, prior to the invasion. His existence served nothing for the most part. insan3Spectre said: Well, my biggest complaint with the Pain arc is that the other characters didn't do much at all. It eventually boiled down to just Naruto vs. Pain and I think that was just a waste of a great cast of characters. So, if Shino and everyone else did get involved in something during that invasion, assuming I ultimately come to think it was well done, I would probably view it as an improvement of the arc. That's cool and a valid point but you missed my point here. I said Shino's subplot, something that is not relevant to Pain. If Shino got involved with the Pain's fight, then it wouldn't be a subplot. If the minor characters got involved in the main storyline, then that's cool, I'm just pointing out with the hypothetical Shino's example that having a screen time for an irrelevant badly placed subplot is the actual problem. Not whether or not minor characters get involved with the big fight. I mean let's look at it, in this way. Shoot and Knuckle got development and depth, but I didn't find a problem with that. Because it was part of the main plot, and not their own subplot that doesn't affect the Royal Guards. insan3Spectre said: I'll try to explain the way I see this development of characters thing. The way Chimera Ant has focused on these different characters, perhaps despite their relatively minor roles, is great for me. Pretty much every one of these characters has their own personal stakes and view points and I love that Togashi has been exploring each of them. It seems you are more of a plot person, but as a guy who ultimately cares more about characters and what makes them tick, Chimera Ant may as well have been created specifically for me. Because it hits pretty much everything I want. Yes, it's true. My favorite thing about HxH is the story and the plot. I only really like a few characters and become interested in their personality and how they are written like Hisoka for example. I mean I didn't care for Gon, until episode 116. It always been like that, when I first watched the 1999 adaption, that was the second time that Gon caught my interest (the first being his fight against bomber). The engaging plot is what makes me ''tick''. I don't appreciate the exploration of minor characters, if they don't directly affect something that matters. insan3Spectre said: Also, I don't know if you ever read GuardianEnzo's blogs about HxH but he mentioned his "disconnect" with those that don't like what the arc is doing. I think that is what is going on between us. I don't know about him. Well that's only one problem I have with the arc, they are bigger ones to me. Well the real controversy didn't begin yet. |
|
| I did say why Ikalgo is important, he took out two potential problems. Whether they could have actually troubled the Hunters is one thing, but now they won't even have the chance. But, just because they are weaker doesn't mean they couldn't bring harm to the mission. Imagine, for example, if one of them had gotten involved in Youpi's fight. Sure, they may have died but what if they were a distraction just long enough for Youpi to make it to the King? Okay, I think I got you regarding the Shino part. Let's say that the Pain arc went exactly as it did and then, suddenly, Shino does whatever subplot. Then, yeah, I probably would have a problem with it. The difference with Chimera Ant is that the invasion has been jumping view points from the beginning and, thinking about it, this episode was no different. He's on the mission so, to me, he's important. Of course he isn't involved in the fight with the Guard as he is ill suited for that. I can't discuss everything else as it seems the PS3 has a word limit. |
| "Yes, I have been deprived of emotion. But not completely. Whoever did it, botched the job." - Geralt of Rivia |
| The two potential problems themselves are hardly important or even remotely present danger to the missions and the hunters..those two ants had no intention of going anywhere close to the Royal Guards in the first place. And even if they did, they won't really cause any problem since Youpi defeated the hunters rather easily and didn't need to hurry to the King, since he didn't know what going on at the time. Actually even if all three of the Royal Guards did get to the King the second, Netero and the King arrived at that place, it still wouldn't have mattered, since the King wouldn't have let them interfere, and there is also another reason why them being there wouldn't matter but that's a spoiler. I don't think you are thinking logically when it comes to him being important. He is important to his own subplot but that's about it. Meloren/Palm/Knuckle/Shoot/Morel and even Knov or rather especially Knov are all supporting characters that are way way more important than him. Ikaglo existence in the invasion is trivial. |
tsudecimoApr 5, 2014 12:25 PM
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mrbryce said: can someone remind me how palm got recycled ? i mean, who made the egg ? i dont remember from reading the manga, only that she appeared in this corridor out of nowhere I'm not too sure but I think it was a combination of both Pouf and Pitou abilities. I could be wrong though, since I don't remember much about her. |
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| Yeah, I highly doubt that the King would allow them to help myself. My point is simply that he stopped a potential threat, that's all I'm saying. You need to understand, man. You know how everything ends, so you see it as these things leading to one very specific conclusion. I don't know how it will end, all I can do is use the information I have up until now. What I feel now is that Ikalgo is important, maybe I'll look back on a re-watch and not see it that way after I get the big picture, I don't know. Like I said before, I view those characters as MC's of the arc whereas Gon and Killua are the MC's of the series as a whole. In fact, until you brought it up, I had always viewed them as such. I like this viewpoint because pretty much every character feels important to me when they are on screen. I would even argue Ikalgo's role is trivial simply because you choose to see it that way, I don't go "Oh, I wish the King was on screen" because I see every character involved in the mission as important. |
| "Yes, I have been deprived of emotion. But not completely. Whoever did it, botched the job." - Geralt of Rivia |
| @Insanespectre Damn those are exactly my thoughts on the whole CA arc, great posts.... I do understand what you are saying about being important..... it's like this quote "Be it a rock or a grain of sand, in water they sink as the same." Movie--->OLDBOY |
| "Laugh, and the world laughs with you; Weep, and you weep alone". Ella Wheeler Wilcox |
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