Hunter x Hunter (2011) Episode 123 Discussion

bewareofhisoka said:
Wait I don't understand this timewise. In episode 119, Ikalgo leaves Bloster and that's when Welfin claims that he was with Hina, Bizeff, and Shidore at the time. However in episode 120, Welfin is seen following them still in hostility. Wait what?

TonyTonyStark said:
From the manga:

1. Welfin may only use Missileman as a tool of negotiation as part of his vow.

It would not work or misfire otherwise, or in case of identifying the wrong target. he could have made it much more destructive by adding a punishment too, like Kurapika... like they would fire back at him. But then again, it's too risky as seen in the case of Meleoron.

3. Welfen loads a missile round in a form of a question or an order.

Welfin: "Don't move or I'll kill you".

Edit: I see the confusion, the anime subtitles say: Missile man only works with a question, otherwise it's null and void"
That's incorrect, the manga says: "My attack is reactionary, so it requires strategy"

Technically, the subs did not mistranslate, they just made it confusing. What's null and void is not the missiles (as in blank shots), but the whole point of the attack is to extract information, they only activate upon reaction, so they will never, ever draw first blood, which is a great disadvantage.

MrAM said:
Ikalgo's becoming quite the infamous character in the fandom... :P

I was hoping for a continuation of the Netero vs. The King conflict, and admittedly was slightly disappointed when I discovered this week's episode would be about Ikalgo and Ikalgo only. However, this being HunterXHunter, the episode still ended up being great. Not as incredible as the last two, but a solid episode in its own right.

It's fascinating how much happened in this episode, and how much didn't. It was basically Ikalgo facing down Welfin in a small room, and ended with Ikalgo leaving. Despite that, Togashi managed to enrich their conversation with so much depth and character development that it ended up being a pleasure to watch.

The best part of the episode was Welfin, and it was really about him more than Ikalgo. His dialogue in the beginning was a continuation of the reflection he had back a few episodes ago: that he was incredibly weak, more than he realized. I liked how his Nen ability was used throughout the episode as a metaphor for his personality and intentions, to the degree that Ikalgo was able to use the worms in his head as a truth/lie detector. Of course, their disintegration at the end of the episode is meant to represent the disintegration of Welfin's former personality, the one that was composed of constant lying and deceit. The use of worms to represent who he is- or used to be- as a person is extremely fitting, as worms in fiction tend to symbolize moral corruption and the like.

Lots of irony in this episode as well, as per the course for the CA. The obvious one, of course, is Welfin's powers being used against him and being a key to his downfall. It's basically a metaphor for how the Ant's devious actions and personality led to his loss of the showdown, keeping with one of the larger themes of the whole arc.

Something that Welfin though to himself stood out to me as well: that Ikalgo was especially fearsome because he was willing to put his life on the line to perform his duty. The irony here is that Welfin, being the Ant who is supposed to be loyal to the King, is the one who'd spent the past few days plotting against his species and generally just attempting to use the Invasion for his personal gain, without regard to loyalty and integrity. Ikalgo, the one who ditched the Ants and joined the human side, is displaying more Ant-like characteristics than the one who is supposed to be on their side. Togashi has highlighted this irony before, and we see it playing out here again as well.

I really liked the small backstory that Welfin got. Hearing how he used to be with the NGL and personally knew Gyro the way he did was a bit unexpected but made sense. Of course he'd have bonded with Gyro, considering the fact that they both had terrible childhoods and terrible parents. I'm pleased to see the name 'Gyro' return to the main plot, considering that he was mentioned over 20 episodes ago and then forgotten about. As expected though, Togasi never forgets a thing he writes.

And so Welfin completes his character arc, starting off as a selfish, cowardly liar, before being humbled by events around him and transitioning into a better person who can finally speak the truth. It's pretty astonishing, and amusing in a way, that Togashi is so obsessed with detail that he bothered to give a character as minor as Welfin so much development, but I'm not complaining. The more the better.

Minagatachi said:
"So you've been waiting for Netero vs The King for the whole arc? Fuck that shit, we'll give you some more on that shitty octopus". It was a chore to force myself through this shit. I would actually like Ikalgo if Togashi didn't do such a crappy job with his screen time.

jreginald said:


Lol except he didn't do a crappy job. I mean, just take a look at what MrAM was able to bring out from this entire episode.

Minagatachi said:
I would be fine with this episode if it was shown before all the Netero vs King hype took over, but because that didn't happen I now just feel screwed over.

Minagatachi said:
I would be fine with this episode if it was shown before all the Netero vs King hype took over, but because that didn't happen I now just feel screwed over. I should rephrase my last sentence, I would actually like Ikalgo if Tofashi didn't do such a crappy job in the placement of his screen time.

jreginald said:


Lol except he didn't do a crappy job. I mean, just take a look at what MrAM was able to bring out from this entire episode.

tsudecimo said:

What does it matter, if someone would find it uninteresting (like me) and it being irrelevant to the main plot?

I mean Togashi could present the deepest themes and the best character depth you can think of into a side character, but he is still a side character.

Their existence only drags out the arc. Focusing on side characters that are irrelevant to the main plot is not something I can appreciate, no matter how ''omg so deep and so different'' it is. And I think they are horrible characters in the first place, so it only makes it worse..

tsudecimo said:

What does it matter, if someone would find it uninteresting (like me) and it being irrelevant to the main plot?

I mean Togashi could present the deepest themes and the best character depth you can think of into a side character, but he is still a side character.

Their existence only drags out the arc. Focusing on side characters that are irrelevant to the main plot is not something I can appreciate, no matter how ''omg so deep and so different'' it is. And I think they are horrible characters in the first place, so it only makes it worse..

insan3Spectre said:

Man, I just don't agree with this on a fundamental level at all. First of all, I would argue that Ikalgo is definitely a main character in this arc, just like every other character shown in the Ending. So, I just don't get the argument of him being a side character.

Also, I just fail to see how giving depth to a minor character like Welfin is a bad thing. It also actually ties into the theme of identity, that was also touched on last week with the King and his wanting to know his name. That, and Gyro was brought back up, and I have a strong feeling this character will be important whenever Togashi decides to pick the manga back up. So, not only does it develop Welfin, it actually does support the story of Chimera Ant and it's themes.

insan3Spectre said:
But, Ikalgo IS important to the arc. Specifically the invasion, if he had went on the mission with the Hunters and then not be seen throughout the rest of the arc, then that would have been just plain bad writing imo. I know you know how the arc ultimately ends and it may be true that Ikalgo doesn't do anything for the rest of the arc, but that doesn't change the fact that he's had an influence on events already. He's taken out two possible thorns in the side of the Hunter's/Meleoreon, and his encounter's with Bro and Welfin further explore the themes of the arc. You say that you only care if the themes are explored through major characters, but why? Why shouldn't Togashi explore the themes of Identity/Humanity through all of his characters?

insan3Spectre said:
About Cheetu, he was an idiot through and through. Everything he did was idiotic, so I don't see him getting killed by Silva as "random" so much as him being a dumbass for challenging a man, Zeno, who was obviously superior to him. He was dead as soon as he wouldn't leave the man alone, regardless of Silva attacking or not.

insan3Spectre said:
Well, my biggest complaint with the Pain arc is that the other characters didn't do much at all. It eventually boiled down to just Naruto vs. Pain and I think that was just a waste of a great cast of characters. So, if Shino and everyone else did get involved in something during that invasion, assuming I ultimately come to think it was well done, I would probably view it as an improvement of the arc.

insan3Spectre said:
I'll try to explain the way I see this development of characters thing. The way Chimera Ant has focused on these different characters, perhaps despite their relatively minor roles, is great for me. Pretty much every one of these characters has their own personal stakes and view points and I love that Togashi has been exploring each of them. It seems you are more of a plot person, but as a guy who ultimately cares more about characters and what makes them tick, Chimera Ant may as well have been created specifically for me. Because it hits pretty much everything I want.

insan3Spectre said:

Also, I don't know if you ever read GuardianEnzo's blogs about HxH but he mentioned his "disconnect" with those that don't like what the arc is doing. I think that is what is going on between us.

mrbryce said:
can someone remind me how palm got recycled ? i mean, who made the egg ? i dont remember from reading the manga, only that she appeared in this corridor out of nowhere

insan3Spectre said:


Man, I just don't agree with this on a fundamental level at all. First of all, I would argue that Ikalgo is definitely a main character in this arc, just like every other character shown in the Ending. So, I just don't get the argument of him being a side character.

Also, I just fail to see how giving depth to a minor character like Welfin is a bad thing. It also actually ties into the theme of identity, that was also touched on last week with the King and his wanting to know his name. That, and Gyro was brought back up, and I have a strong feeling this character will be important whenever Togashi decides to pick the manga back up. So, not only does it develop Welfin, it actually does support the story of Chimera Ant and it's themes.

He is not an important character, I don't understand how can you say something like this. Ikaglo literally and I do mean quite literally has no effect whatsoever on the main story or the main characters. The only thing I can make of this, is that you a have a different definition of the word 'important'.

That would be true if Bhermovda (or however you spell that) was actually a danger to anything, he wasn't, any hunter could have taken him out easily

MCAL said:
First off, no I am not trying to insult anyone. So please, don't say anything, like that or I'll just ignore you.

You see, everything people hated about this episode I loved. I love how Togashi doesn't follow conventional story telling. I love how he can write such fantastic character analysis for each and every character. I love how every single battle isn't solved by beam spamming or deus ex machina or contrivances. And most importantly I love how everything in the end follows the same theme, just indifferent ways, that theme being the meaning of humanity. Honestly, if you can't see how important Ikalgo and Welfin's characters are to the arc (Hint: Think thematically instead), then you completely miss what makes Togashi the best shounen writer in existence.

With Togashi, its all about thinking outside of the box. If you try to see things conventionally, then it won't work.

tsudecimo said:
Focusing on side characters that are irrelevant to the main plot is not something I can appreciate, no matter how ''omg so deep and so different'' it is.

Ikaglo literally and I do mean quite literally has no effect whatsoever on the main story or the main characters.

Minagatachi said:
I don't have a problem with anyone getting development, I have a problem with us constantly being screwed around with like fools. If you're going to show what we've been waiting to see all arc, then don't tease and just fucking do it...Remember that Gon vs Pitou fight that we were all expecting to see a few months ago? What happened to that?

insan3Spectre said:
Shit, I was hoping to get some of your perspective about this Cresherhsm, but you only talk in spoilers....

Cresherhsm said:

If that's your problem then blame it on Madhouse, not Togashi. If they adapted the manga as is, we would have seen Netero vs Meruem in episode 123 instead.

MCAL said:
Well I feel I should add that the Netero/King fight was going to be interrupted either way. Madhouse just changed when that would happen. Arguably for the better, I'd add, since in the manga the middle of the true fight is interrupted, while in the anime it was before the true fight began.

TimeTraveler- said:
Ikalgo playing the badass was ridiculous. He couldn't pull the trigger last time but now he is shooting the gun like it's legal. Boring episode. Looking forward to seeing Killua in action :)

TimeTraveler- said:
Ikalgo playing the badass was ridiculous. He couldn't pull the trigger last time but now he is shooting the gun like it's legal. Boring episode. Looking forward to seeing Killua in action :)

insan3Spectre said:
Yeah, I highly doubt that the King would allow them to help myself. My point is simply that he stopped a potential threat, that's all I'm saying. You need to understand, man. You know how everything ends, so you see it as these things leading to one very specific conclusion. I don't know how it will end, all I can do is use the information I have up until now. What I feel now is that Ikalgo is important, maybe I'll look back on a re-watch and not see it that way after I get the big picture, I don't know.

insan3Spectre said:
Like I said before, I view those characters as MC's of the arc whereas Gon and Killua are the MC's of the series as a whole. In fact, until you brought it up, I had always viewed them as such. I like this viewpoint because pretty much every character feels important to me when they are on screen. I would even argue Ikalgo's role is trivial simply because you choose to see it that way, I don't go "Oh, I wish the King was on screen" because I see every character involved in the mission as important.

kaikyaku said:

Ikalgo saved killua life. I guess we have a different definition of important indeed :)

Don't agree. Imo he is cheetu level. So not any hunter would take him out easily. Cheetu had to face zoldycks to be taken out. Against morel and his student, he got out fine. Sure, if the hunters face him prepared, fine. But they are busy with all other Royal guards. Having any other ant, however weak they are, surprise the hunter when they are fighting the RG, it could be very dangerous indeed.

Cresherhsm said:

tsudecimo said:



Ikaglo role in the main plot was so minimal, that I decided to say it was literally nothing. I mean Welfin's role in itself is small, so that makes Ikaglo roles's even smaller.

It could have been simply written as Weflin meeting you know who, and spelling the beans. The fact, that the scene could have been easily written without his existence, is all the more proof of the level of his importance.

I think the irony here is that little subplot will never happen, because of the all might hiatus. And if Togashi returns, I hope to God his doesn't bother with it, and just forget those horrible characters. But the Gyro thing is interesting though.