| So this is somewhat of a continuation and a proper place to discuss this thread: http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=656529&show=280 Agnostics say they don't know whether or not there is a god....however they are NOT answering the question, or better said their response is malformed. The question is the following: "Do you believe in god?" There are only two options Yes or No. You either believe or you don't believe, if you say "I don't know" you are avoiding the question altogether because the question is not asking if you know or not know. Belief does not deal with knowledge which you can be certain of....that's why it's a belief. So Agnostics, do you believe in god? Yes or No. Edit: I feel I should explain that when I say "Agnostics" I mean people who don't want to commit themselves to saying they do or don't believe in god. I'm actually Agnostic myself.....but I'm also atheist in terms of believing in god. Purely agnostic individuals are the ones I'm aiming this thread at. Remember, when it comes to belief and knowledge they are not mutually exclusive which means you can be BOTH agnostic and theist or atheist. I'll leave this image for better reference: http://religiouscartoons.net/albums/userpics/grid.png Edit #2 Changed the title to something more friendlier in order to encourage better discussions. |
--ALEX--Mar 24, 2014 10:04 PM
| I'm an agnostic because I don't care if there is one. I'm on the fence, if there is one then great, if not then it doesn't change my life in the slightest. |
an egomaniac and a fool |
Emnay said: I'm an agnostic because I don't care if there is one. I'm on the fence, if there is one then great, if not then it doesn't change my life in the slightest. That would make you an Apatheist.... |
| Right now I am euphoric |
[b][size=240]GROOSE[/b][/size]  |
| No, your question is malformed. |
| Proud founder of the 20+ virgins club. Please visit my manga blog for manga updates and more! Mup da doo didda po mo muhfuggen bix nood ^ Need someone who can translate this. Pm me pls. |
| it's not really a question of sides, the way i see it atheism is also a spiritual belief system. it's like we are all running different OS's in our minds. some people run cosmicgod 2.7, some people run skepticalscience 5.0 |
| I CELEBRATE myself, And what I assume you shall assume, For every atom belonging to me as good belongs to you. |
| Lol if you don't know, then how are you supposed to honestly answer that question? There is no proof that some sort of god exists or not, so answering the question wouldn't really mean much other than making you happy for some reason. |
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JustALEX said: all the sameEmnay said: I'm an agnostic because I don't care if there is one. I'm on the fence, if there is one then great, if not then it doesn't change my life in the slightest. That would make you an Apatheist.... |
an egomaniac and a fool |
| why should I? fuck off. |
 |
Jeav said: Lol if you don't know, then how are you supposed to honestly answer that question? There is no proof that some sort of god exists or not, so answering the question wouldn't really mean much other than making you happy for some reason. Do you believe in magic? Do you believe in unicorns? Do you believe in Santa Claus? Do you believe in God? If you can answer "no" to one of these questions, then you can answer "no" to all of them. Why is only the last question deemed 'unanswerable' by some people? |
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Narmy said: Jeav said: Lol if you don't know, then how are you supposed to honestly answer that question? There is no proof that some sort of god exists or not, so answering the question wouldn't really mean much other than making you happy for some reason. Do you believe in magic? Do you believe in unicorns? Do you believe in Santa Claus? Do you believe in God? If you can answer "no" to one of these questions, then you can answer "no" to all of them. Why is only the last question deemed 'unanswerable' by some people? Cause there is no universal accepted definition of God. God can mean virtually anything that goes beyond the horizon of human understanding. |
| Proud founder of the 20+ virgins club. Please visit my manga blog for manga updates and more! Mup da doo didda po mo muhfuggen bix nood ^ Need someone who can translate this. Pm me pls. |
Narmy said: Jeav said: Lol if you don't know, then how are you supposed to honestly answer that question? There is no proof that some sort of god exists or not, so answering the question wouldn't really mean much other than making you happy for some reason. Do you believe in magic? Do you believe in unicorns? Do you believe in Santa Claus? Do you believe in God? If you can answer "no" to one of these questions, then you can answer "no" to all of them. Why is only the last question deemed 'unanswerable' by some people? For example because there is always chance that there was god that made the big bang. Who knows? |
| Like Narmy said, I don't know for sure that God doesn't exist, but if magic, unicorns, elves, and tha stuff doesn't, then the most probably is that God neither. |
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Narmy said: Fair enough, I personally don't believe in all of those, but I don't really care whether someone I know does or doesnt. OP here is pretty much coming out and telling everyone they have to choose. After all the definition of an agnostic is "a person who claims neither faith nor disbelief in God".Jeav said: Lol if you don't know, then how are you supposed to honestly answer that question? There is no proof that some sort of god exists or not, so answering the question wouldn't really mean much other than making you happy for some reason. Do you believe in magic? Do you believe in unicorns? Do you believe in Santa Claus? Do you believe in God? If you can answer "no" to one of these questions, then you can answer "no" to all of them. Why is only the last question deemed 'unanswerable' by some people? |
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| I'm an agnostic because there is not enough information to decide something like this. I don't deny or confirm anything unless I'm very, very sure about it. Making premature decisions based on incomplete information is, in my opinion, a stupid thing to do. I do not comprehend the concept of "belief". I can be certain of something to some extent based on facts, statistics and observations. In my opinion belief is just when you are extremely certain of something based on those things I mentioned, and when you are willing to dismiss the very small percentage of doubt you still have in order to create an environment for yourself where you don't need to watch your back all the time. Besides, your question is a major oversimplification. Which god? One or many? Does it count if I consider myself to be a god? Or every human to be one? Does a being that's called god have to be sentient or can the collective laws of the universe form a god? Are the gods different religions believe in even different entities or are they the same just referred to by different names? |
| If you generalize, you're wrong. |
sedmelluq said: I'm an agnostic because there is not enough information to decide something like this. I don't deny or confirm anything unless I'm very, very sure about it. Making premature decisions based on incomplete information is, in my opinion, a stupid thing to do. Do you believe in Santa Clause? Now remember, there is not enough information either way to properly say that he exists or not. The ball is in your court. |
Hulmy said: I don't believe in God because their is so much evil in the world. Just makes sense, right? How do you know God isn't evil? |
| Proud founder of the 20+ virgins club. Please visit my manga blog for manga updates and more! Mup da doo didda po mo muhfuggen bix nood ^ Need someone who can translate this. Pm me pls. |
JustALEX said: sedmelluq said: I'm an agnostic because there is not enough information to decide something like this. I don't deny or confirm anything unless I'm very, very sure about it. Making premature decisions based on incomplete information is, in my opinion, a stupid thing to do. Do you believe in Santa Clause? Now remember, there is not enough information either way to properly say that he exists or not. The ball is in your court. Just as with god, there is no proper definition of what exactly is the "proper" santa claus. How can I even analyze the problem if your question itself is completely ambiguous? |
| If you generalize, you're wrong. |
| There are different types of Agnostics... I believe a superior entity might've created us, yet I don't follow any religions because they don't make sense to me nor I can prove some "God" exists because it's beyond my understanding. How is that being a coward? |
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JustALEX said: sedmelluq said: I'm an agnostic because there is not enough information to decide something like this. I don't deny or confirm anything unless I'm very, very sure about it. Making premature decisions based on incomplete information is, in my opinion, a stupid thing to do. Do you believe in Santa Clause? Now remember, there is not enough information either way to properly say that he exists or not. The ball is in your court. Santa Clause is against Physic laws. |
JustALEX said: This is a logical fallacy. I'm pretty sure there's a name for the fallacy too, but I can't think of it at the moment.There are only two options Yes or No. Things are often more complicated than just "Yes" or "No". JustALEX said: Bull. Consider the following: Say you think that God cannot be proven to exist, however, despite that, God can exist and you just don't know since there is no proof of His existence. Then that person could say "I don't know" to the question of if God exists or not. And that's just one example. People can say "I don't know" to questions and it not be because they haven't thought about it. Rather, after thinking about it and asking onesself, they can simply not know whether or not they believe in God.You either believe or you don't believe, if you say "I don't know" you are avoiding the question altogether because the question is not asking if you know or not know. I have similar issues on other questions. |
LoneWolfRain said: We're not avoiding the question, we just aren't arrogant dipshits. I can't give you proof that there's a god, nor can I give you proof that there isn't one. Therefore, I don't know and I won't take a side. And, by the way, agnostic atheists are still atheists. How in the world is it arrogant to respond to a question instead of avoiding it? I get it agnostics....You don't know. Guess what, neither do atheists. I don't know and theists don't know either. But at least we're not avoiding the question. |
| I need to see the actual being, spirit, or apparition first and he or she must be in their true form or in a form that isn't just a regular person like in Joan of Arcadia if the true form can't be shown. |
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Kyonyo said: JustALEX said: sedmelluq said: I'm an agnostic because there is not enough information to decide something like this. I don't deny or confirm anything unless I'm very, very sure about it. Making premature decisions based on incomplete information is, in my opinion, a stupid thing to do. Do you believe in Santa Clause? Now remember, there is not enough information either way to properly say that he exists or not. The ball is in your court. Santa Clause is against Physic laws. The problem here is that we don't even know the laws of physics. Unlike mathematics, which is built from ground up by us, where we know the base where it all comes from, physics is the complete opposite. We see just the outside of it, and are drilling deeper and deeper, but we still have absolutely no idea what's in the core. For all we know, all the "supernatural" things could easily be explained by laws of physics yet unknown to us. |
| If you generalize, you're wrong. |
JustALEX said: Some people may view answering the question with a yes or no as saying he or she knows with absolute certainty the answer, while agnostics claim to not know and are supposedly not arrogant enough to say they know when the existence of God cannot be proven or disproven. At least that is probably some people's beliefs anyways.LoneWolfRain said: We're not avoiding the question, we just aren't arrogant dipshits. How in the world is it arrogant to respond to a question instead of avoiding it? |
| I'm an agnostic because it's impossible to conclude whether there is no god somewhere out there or not. I live my life under the assumption that there isn't a god, so I guess you could say that I don't believe there is one. I'm not euphoric enough to pick a side. |
JustALEX said: LoneWolfRain said: We're not avoiding the question, we just aren't arrogant dipshits. I can't give you proof that there's a god, nor can I give you proof that there isn't one. Therefore, I don't know and I won't take a side. And, by the way, agnostic atheists are still atheists. How in the world is it arrogant to respond to a question instead of avoiding it? I get it agnostics....You don't know. Guess what, neither do atheists. I don't know and theists don't know either. But at least we're not avoiding the question. I beg to differ. I bet atheists and theists do claim they know their respective positions. I rather not be categorized as a rabid atheist or theist so I'm content with idk. |
JustALEX said: LoneWolfRain said: We're not avoiding the question, we just aren't arrogant dipshits. I can't give you proof that there's a god, nor can I give you proof that there isn't one. Therefore, I don't know and I won't take a side. And, by the way, agnostic atheists are still atheists. How in the world is it arrogant to respond to a question instead of avoiding it? I get it agnostics....You don't know. Guess what, neither do atheists. I don't know and theists don't know either. But at least we're not avoiding the question. Cause your question is wrong in the first place ~~ |
| Proud founder of the 20+ virgins club. Please visit my manga blog for manga updates and more! Mup da doo didda po mo muhfuggen bix nood ^ Need someone who can translate this. Pm me pls. |
| He doesn't. He is just a convenient excuse for things that people aren't capable of scientifically explaining, just as witchcraft was; a product of naivete. Also makes for a good mental crutch for those who seek meaning in their lives, as well as a way to manipulate people into giving you money. |
| I think deep down, nobody really knows their own answer until the end. I'd bet that even some of the most devout in all religions question their faith when the end is right in their face. Well, the ones that have time for it anyway. Sometimes shit happens pretty fast (lolrpg) |
JustALEX said: LoneWolfRain said: We're not avoiding the question, we just aren't arrogant dipshits. I can't give you proof that there's a god, nor can I give you proof that there isn't one. Therefore, I don't know and I won't take a side. And, by the way, agnostic atheists are still atheists. How in the world is it arrogant to respond to a question instead of avoiding it? I get it agnostics....You don't know. Guess what, neither do atheists. I don't know and theists don't know either. But at least we're not avoiding the question. No, that's exactly what you're doing. You're skipping the hard part - which is actually analyzing the information objectively - by taking a dogmatic stance and simply dismissing anything that conflicts it. It's easier to just say yes or no than actually analyzing the situation and information (or the lack of it). |
| If you generalize, you're wrong. |
JustALEX said: LoneWolfRain said: We're not avoiding the question, we just aren't arrogant dipshits. I can't give you proof that there's a god, nor can I give you proof that there isn't one. Therefore, I don't know and I won't take a side. And, by the way, agnostic atheists are still atheists. How in the world is it arrogant to respond to a question instead of avoiding it? I get it agnostics....You don't know. Guess what, neither do atheists. I don't know and theists don't know either. But at least we're not avoiding the question. ahahahah. Just like you said, nobody knows. So why is it so hard to understand why someone else would say they "dont know". If you answer yes or no that is just you guessing according to your personal beliefs. If there is anyway to answer the question properly like you so desperately want everyone to do, it is to say "I don't know". |
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| I think it's allright to say agnostics don't believe in god. The question that they answer with "I don't know" is "Does god exist?". Because they accept the possibiity of god existing even though they don't believe in it. Well at least that is how it is for me since I'm kinda an agnostic myself. |
Mogu-sama said: That is a silly question to ask without further defining what God is... voices in my head *creepy face* |
| Unless all that free will talk is a load of shit, I'm here because my parents decided to fuck. The existence of a God has little relevance to my own existence. But I don't believe in a God anyway. |
 |
Zeally said: I beg to differ. I bet atheists and theists do claim they know their respective positions. I rather not be categorized as a rabid atheist or theist so I'm content with idk. Some do, many don't. This is why the terms "agnostic-atheist" and "agnostic-theist" exist. Shiratori99 said: Cause your question is wrong in the first place ~~ Lol, which question? LoneWolfRain said: It's not arrogant to respond to a question, but it is arrogant and dipshit-like to claim you know something that you actually don't, because you don't have proof. And agnostics are not avoiding the question. Avoiding the question would be not giving you an answer at all. Saying "I don't know, because I don't have proof" is indeed giving you an answer. lol, didn't I just say that atheists and theists DON'T know.... Also, it IS avoiding the question because you refuse to answer the question in the only two options that it contains. Belief does not deal with knowledge, no one is asking if you know that god exists. If the question were "Do you know that god exists?" You would answer no. But the question here is "Do you BELIEVE in god?" I don't think I have to explain that belief =/= knowledge, right? I mean, that's self explanatory.....I least I thought. Here's some examples: I KNOW that today is Monday. I KNOW that I live in the U.S. I BELIEVE it will rain later tonight. I BELIEVE tomorrow I'll wake up and go to work. Clearly, there is a difference.....knowledge deals with certainty, belief doesn't. |
sedmelluq said: The problem here is that we don't even know the laws of physics. Unlike mathematics, which is built from ground up by us, where we know the base where it all comes from, physics is the complete opposite. We see just the outside of it, and are drilling deeper and deeper, but we still have absolutely no idea what's in the core. For all we know, all the "supernatural" things could easily be explained by laws of physics yet unknown to us. No. It doesn't work that way that when we reach we find out way that Santa Claus could go speed of light what would make his existence possible. |
| I stopped believing and God and now I believe there isn't one, and even if there was, they would have no control over our souls, as we lack one, and we stop perceiving once our vehicles have been destroyed. I think my life has taken a turn for the worse ever since I started believing that. |
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JustALEX said: Zeally said: I beg to differ. I bet atheists and theists do claim they know their respective positions. I rather not be categorized as a rabid atheist or theist so I'm content with idk. Some do, many don't. This is why the terms "agnostic-atheist" and "agnostic-theist" exist. Shiratori99 said: Cause your question is wrong in the first place ~~ Lol, which question? LoneWolfRain said: It's not arrogant to respond to a question, but it is arrogant and dipshit-like to claim you know something that you actually don't, because you don't have proof. And agnostics are not avoiding the question. Avoiding the question would be not giving you an answer at all. Saying "I don't know, because I don't have proof" is indeed giving you an answer. lol, didn't I just say that atheists and theists DON'T know.... Also, it IS avoiding the question because you refuse to answer the question in the only two options that it contains. Belief does not deal with knowledge, no one is asking if you know that god exists. If the question were "Do you know that god exists?" You would answer no. But the question here is "Do you BELIEVE in god?" I don't think I have to explain that belief =/= knowledge, right? I mean, that's self explanatory.....I least I thought. Here's some examples: I KNOW that today is Monday. I KNOW that I live in the U.S. I BELIEVE it will rain later tonight. I BELIEVE tomorrow I'll wake up and go to work. Clearly, there is a difference.....knowledge deals with certainty, belief doesn't. Do you see the world in black and white? Because that would explain so much. The definition of an agnostic is a person who claims neither faith nor disbelief in God. |
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| I see and respect why many consider agnosticism the best stance to take on this, but the reason I choose to dismiss the possibility of a god existing, is because I believe religion and the concept of a god is another myth created by humans, akin to any other type of fantasy, just with a more practical purpose. Why should I give it the benefit of the doubt any more than I do the possibility of Santa Clause existing? If we're talking about a god that doesn't exist to human knowledge, but who's basic principles of existence happens to coincide with our definition of a god (which I assume is what most agnostics think of when they imagine a god existing), I'll admit that there is a small chance of that, and if the existence of such a thing ever becomes fact, I'll admit I was wrong. But for now, I'm confident enough in my belief that the existence of god is absurd, that I don't feel the need to seriously consider the possibility of one existing. The OP could not have made a more dickish opening to this thread. Well... I suppose it could have been worse. |
Heredity said: lol, why should an agnostic person suddenly have to decide if they're a theist or not just because of some mal thread? you certainly hold yourself in high regard JustALEX. +1 |
| No it isn't. |
| Losing an Argument online? Simply post a webpage full of links, and refuse to continue until your opponents have read every last one of them! WORKS EVERY TIME! "I was debating with someone who believed in climate change, when he linked me to a graph showing evidence to that effect. So I sent him a 10k word essay on the origins of Conservatism, and escaped with my dignity intact." "THANK YOU VERBOSE WEBPAGES OF QUESTIONABLE RELEVANCE!" |
Jeav said: Do you see the world in black and white? Because that would explain so much. The definition of an agnostic is a person who claims neither faith nor disbelief in God. No, I don't see the world in black and white, but this issue is a REAL dichotomy. There are only two options....yes or no. Let me give you an example.....it is either raining outside or it ISN'T raining outside. That is a real dichotomy.....there is no in between. |
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