judals said: While there are fights about strategy in OP... they kinda suck. Like... they are the silly kind of strategy. Well I'd say that's the way to express your opinion, not the way the other guy did it. Its not like I'm out to take on everyone who doesn't like One Piece. Its a very popular manga and anime and naturally there will be plenty who don't like it. Though just fyi, I see you say that OP has "weak world building". And that's one thing that honestly does baffle me a bit. Because I happen to think One Piece's greatest strength is its world building combined with the sense of adventure... I mean come on, its got so many different nations and factions with different motivations involved and you call that weak world building? Its just about the most vast and detailed world that both manga and anime as a whole have to offer. You might dislike One Piece's world, which is understandable enough. But to call it weak? That just doesn't seem right in an objective sense considering how big it all is and how Oda plans things hundreds of chapters ahead of time. |
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| One Piece's world building is straightforward and simple, while can be really good at times, usually it's just another setting to spend another arc. The "many" factions and "many" anything is a product of its length, majorly, and its plot of sailing around the world, secondly. (As opposted to Naruto, for example, where it's set in a hotspot area of war). Finally, the complexity goes as far as connecting guy x to guy y or event 3, it doesn't feel like the "intricate web" of connections as it tries to be for me. It also has a limit upon itself. As "bizarre" or "silly" (depending on how you see it) events are, they are never daring. It never goes in different directions while managing to maintain a good transition. The biggest things ever done were 1) New world, which already existed, so simply re-branding the second half with a different name and 2) Haki, which is quite too simple of an addition as well as an underwhelming solution to the logia problem. To a lesser extent there's the dial technology, but I enjoyed that far more than the others. I think the world building is good for a shonen, but somewhat weak in itself considering the length and all the opportunities. |
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| On one side there is a horde of pirate crews all who have their own motivations and factions, with the 4 Yonkou who control big areas of the New World. Then on the other there are the marines which has its own sense of politics, the world government who somewhat controls the marines, the rich nobles who enslave people, the rebel army, various nations with their own individual kings and rulers, diverse places that build the world like Skypiea. Then there's also big events like the Whitebeard War, Straw Hats declaring war against the world government, and the effects that such events have on the world. Everything that's happened with Fishman Island. Events happening in Dressrossa I could just go on and on and on... I mean come on, say ya don't like it. But weak...? No way. I can't think of a single shounen anywhere near the same length that has a more well built world than One Piece. Certainly Naruto and Bleach don't. HxH is great but its like 1/4th the length. Yu Yu Hakusho, Dragonball, Kenshin, D. Gray-man? Not really, they just have good characters, stories and fights. The actual world building is barely even present in comparison to everything simultaneously going on in One Piece. |
LayedBackMar 26, 2014 2:16 PM
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| Yes. There are a lot of things going on. Just not complex or revolutionary by themselves. Put them together and they are more "stacked" than intertwined. Like I said the connections don't sell for me. If you don't mind, I'll compare to HxH a little bit: (and make it at least on-topic, lol) Let's say, introducing something completely (minus the foreshadowing) new to the world, such as Nen, and making it not only work but suddenly become the driving force of the show at the time, and it keeps self-generating its own mythologies or as Setsu put it, "pseudo-sciences" -I don't mean it as sarcastically- even outside the context of the story, it's up and running. That's a thousand of these "minuscule connections" on their own. Making that leap and actually having it work, that's brilliant imo. Conversely, the introduction of haki was underwhelming to me because 1) too simple to work with, even within the show and what's given to us 2) we already had DFs and many other ideas to make seem anything special. I mean to me, Nen wasn't a location, or a flashback of a certain person knowing/fighting another person, just a concept, but it added a whole new dimension to the world. This type of ballsy leap alone, if done correctly, I would consider it revolutionary. Let alone someone who had done it 3 times, while managing to keep the consistency in-between. These "leaps" aside, I also consider having those type of connections you mentioened, while not as numerous, done more gracefully, done with characters who had depth, rather than seemingly mannequins (imo) is much better world building. Finally, having done all this, within a shonen than defies all the tropes and conventions, going on in its own direction, having no "limit" and being able to go anywhere while still maintaining story focus, is the best part of it all. HxH aside, I'd consider JoJo, Sinbad no Bouken, Berserk, FMA, and F/Z have better world-building for me. OP stands above the other shonen still in that regard. |
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LayedBack said: Excuse me? You initiated the discussion by replying to me about One Piece to begin with. You can't really have it both ways, I mean damn. Basically you just want to 'get in peoples faces' with your opinion but when someone actually responds you get all defensive to the point of being insulting. You really need to check yourself. I didn't initiate any ''discussion''. That was simply a passing comment, that I shouldn't have made, considering how upset it made you. The point of my initial post was to point out the wrong usage of the word ''objective'' on your part. Did you actually see me have an argument before? because you keep describing me, like we have had, or you saw countless of arguments before. I will just take this as more baseless assumptions. I don't even have to give you specific examples, it should be obvious that their are strategic fights in One Piece. Whenever a character uses a special ability against an opponent, that's strategic, smart one. Especially when its tailor-made to fight the opponent. Remember Luffy vs Crocodile? Or did you not even see that and you're just making baseless claims? Whenever someone uses a counterattack against an opponent, or finds a way to fight against a certain Devil Fruit, that's also strategic. Whenever a group makes a plan, that's strategy too. Looks likes you have a broad defintion of the word ''strategic'', if you want to include something like Luffy's fight with Croc as strategic. Going by this logic almost every fight in any form is a strategic fight, if someone attacks and the other person tries to block it with something, that must mean he is countering him, thus it's strategic fight, the same goes for a group of people who decide on a plan, the plan is to kill the enemies, thus their fight will be strategic in this logic. I consider Luffy's fight as much of strategic fight as Naruto's fight against Kiba when he farted, to counter Kiba's sensitive nose. A strategic fight should have strategy as it's main theme and drive. Not just some very very simplistic elements of strateg. And from what I saw in one piece, it didn't have genuine strategic fights. And before you say it as some kind of defense to your argument, yes One Piece does use the 'Nakama power' type thing that just about every other battle shounen does as well. But that doesn't mean that strategy is not used in fights. Its used in pretty much every single major fight in the anime. You're wrong about this one thing, you can't deny facts. And when you do its obvious to see just how personal you're taking this. Why would I bring that up? it has no relevance to whether or not a fight is strategic and we are not talking about the quality of one piece fights for me to bring it up. The only battle anime/manga that I read/watched that uses Nakama power are one piece and Fairy Tail, so I don't know about ''every other battle shounen''. You don't just get to say this is a fact and this isn't, and I'm wrong and you are right. I hate to break it to ya, but no it's not an objective fact, so just stop using ''wrong'', ''factual'' ''objective'' so much. LayedBack said: 1. He resorts to childish name calling rather than actually talking about the subject at hand. I was describing your behavior. Childish or not, I thought it was rather accurate. I did talk at the ''subject matter''. ''Butthurt'' was typed at the last sentence of my post. We were not having an argument yet, at that point, so that wasn't ad hominem if that's what you are implying. He's shown that he'd rather deny an obvious 100% fact rather than admit he was just wrong about this one little thing. It really wasn't even important up until the point where he stuck with his guns and kept denying it. (That's something politicians like to do, by the way.) It's not a fact. You keep repeating that is a fact and using multiple words doesn't make it one. You also could have taken the ''one piece doesn't have strategic fights'' as my mere opinion, but alas you are still clouded by your impression of me stating ''facts'' because I didn't add ''imo'' at the end of my sentence. God forbid, people don't state the obvious for you. 3. He asks what makes me think he's interested in even having this conversation to begin with, ignoring the fact that he himself initiated the damn conversation by replying to my post. Already covered this. I wasn't even planning to reply to this, so consider this my last post. You can assume you ''won'' and I ''lost'' here because of me not continuing this petty argument but I frankly don't care. Congrats you ''won''. |
tsudecimoMar 26, 2014 2:31 PM
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| It seems to me like you're just talking about nen and haki though... I thought we were talking about world building here. I mean sure maybe in a sense it can have an effect on that, but those are more under the category of fighting systems than anything else. World building is more about the actual world itself and different factions, nations, ideals and relationships that effect on the world and everyone in it. Idon't see why you think fighting abilities have that much of an effect on world building? You can just as easily replace Nen with Haki, or even just people fighting with swords and armor like in Kingdom, and just because one ability is more interesting to you personally doesn't mean one title necessarily has better world building than the other. Each of the 3 stories (One Piece, HxH and Kingdom) have good world building despite the differences in fighting systems. As for Berserk, that's part of the reason I made sure to say Shounen. Its on my favorites list, and I do happen to think its the only manga I've read that beats One Piece in world building. -------- *tsudecimo* just thought I'd tell you I'm not bothering to read that post. You've acted a little immature in our discussion and I only hope you can learn from your mistakes that I mentioned above so that next time you can actually get your point across in a concise and reasonable manner. |
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| Oh but it does contribute majorly to world building. I don't view it as 'just' geographically expanding the world or adding more people to the social network. Other dimensions factor into it for me. The location itself never impresses me because I've probably seen it all. Skypiea had some nice ideas stored in about the details, which is what mattered to me, despite skyislands being a cliche, for a final fantasy fan such as myself. And Nen, actually, eventually leads to the second point I consider revolutionary; Greed Island. Where the show suddenly goes into a virtual reality style (and even then, turns out there's even more to it), and the game itself created so much lore and connections for the series, ones I actually consider intricate. Even after they left it, there's still so much I was curious about on that one single island. It's especially in a battle shonen that implementing powers can contribute a great deal to the building of the world, literally and figuratively. And if we talk about 'connections', I think the little interactions between Illumi, Hisoa, Chrolla, mainly (and too many others to list) are of the desired quality. |
GrunbeldMar 26, 2014 2:50 PM
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jonnyhan said: Fierce_Deity22 said: I agree the narration started ruining everything. I can't think of a better way of presenting the narrative without the narration. He is not merely repeating what we already know like One Piece does for 5 minutes of every episode. He is often telling us the innate qualities and thinking of all the characters in the battle where dialogues aren't being exchanged. It probably is a hit or miss style, I personally love it. Take it slow like a glass of Whiskey. That is not often the case. It's actually the complete opposite. Very rarely does the narrator even step in in One Piece. I'd reckon we've had enough narration to cover every single time the narrator speaks in all 600+ episodes of One Piece in the last few HxH episodes. Narration by itself is not a bad thing. |
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tsudecimo said: Why would I bring that up? it has no relevance to whether or not a fight is strategic and we are not talking about the quality of one piece fights for me to bring it up. The only battle anime/manga that I read/watched that uses Nakama power are one piece and Fairy Tail, so I don't know about ''every other battle shounen''. I thought your favorite anime was Naruto. Just in the first episode, you have Naruto who manages to create 1000 clones after Mizuki hurt Iruka. You even have countless characters saying people are stronger when they have something or someone to protect. Nakama power is a common trope in shonen, and they're nothing wrong with it in itself, willpower plays a huge role in any physical activities like fights. It all depends on how its use within the story. |
judals said: One Piece's world building is straightforward and simple, while can be really good at times, usually it's just another setting to spend another arc. The "many" factions and "many" anything is a product of its length, majorly, and its plot of sailing around the world, secondly. (As opposted to Naruto, for example, where it's set in a hotspot area of war). Finally, the complexity goes as far as connecting guy x to guy y or event 3, it doesn't feel like the "intricate web" of connections as it tries to be for me. It also has a limit upon itself. As "bizarre" or "silly" (depending on how you see it) events are, they are never daring. It never goes in different directions while managing to maintain a good transition. The biggest things ever done were 1) New world, which already existed, so simply re-branding the second half with a different name and 2) Haki, which is quite too simple of an addition as well as an underwhelming solution to the logia problem. To a lesser extent there's the dial technology, but I enjoyed that far more than the others. I think the world building is good for a shonen, but somewhat weak in itself considering the length and all the opportunities. But the world building completely blows HxH out of the water. I cannot even attribute world-building to HxH anymore than I would do to a regular city setting. They literally just go from one place to another and nothing is explored about the actual setting. In situations with lots of potential it is just simply wasted. Greed Island was just as typical a setting as the green fields they were on before, and too much time was spent on exposition of the game rules and nothing more. The Hunter exam arguably had the best of it, but everything is abandoned after that, and the next time we see magical beasts, they are just thrown in as a random foe with convenient great power. You're right that the very nature of One Piece of sailing around the world leans towards the variety of settings, but that doesn't change it from being an advantage of the series. In OP not only is the setting explored, but the structure of government and history too. While we are just told there is a Hunter Committee, we are given no info on its inner workings and member structure (although I hear the next arc does more of this which I'm looking forward to). We are told there are magical beasts, but we spend majority of the time without seeing any until they are conveniently needed for a plot segue, and the exposition of power was disjointed in continuity unlike haki. Saying "the many factions is a product of its length", falls flat when other long runners cannot even provide coherent groups, and complexity of plot IS the connection of characters and events. How did you miss that? Even my little sister knows that. The only way to miss that is to choose not to do so (no surprise really ;) The past affects the present and the present affects the future. There really is no contest. As for Nen, the only real major difference from other shounen fighting styles is the number of branches and basic application. That makes it a more complex system, but not groundbreakingly so. First of all, its roots are in typical aura powers.It has 5 major branches with the last one dedicated to miscellaneous powers like paramecia devil fruit. And putting aside abilities, the one with the more nen is dominant in basic application of strengthening etc. Where Nen really shines is in the method of discerning which group an individual falls under and the extent of that ability. The contracts and limitations are also a good idea, but very messy in application. Miscellaneous abilities have much more severe limitations than others, and there is no root basis to measure one against the other, so it just ends up as whichever is more convenient. |
RedRoseFringMar 26, 2014 3:11 PM
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SetsukoHara said: tsudecimo said: Why would I bring that up? it has no relevance to whether or not a fight is strategic and we are not talking about the quality of one piece fights for me to bring it up. The only battle anime/manga that I read/watched that uses Nakama power are one piece and Fairy Tail, so I don't know about ''every other battle shounen''. I thought your favorite anime was Naruto. Just in the first episode, you have Naruto who manages to create 1000 clones after Mizuki hurt Iruka. You even have countless characters saying people are stronger when they have something to protect. Nakama power is a common trope in shonen, and they're nothing wrong with it in itself, willpower plays a huge role in any physical activities like fights. It all depends on how its use within the story. I didn't watch the first episode of Naruto, believe it or not lol but Naruto made those clones because of the scroll he stole, not because Iruka believed in him or whatever. That's merely spiritual and not literal. Naruto wouldn't have beat Haku, if it weren't for the Kyuubi inside him, no matter how much, he would have wanted to protect Sakura and Sasuke for example, or Pain without the sage power etc. No, Nakama power as in what Natsu does at the end of every arc, and like what Luffy did with Croc and Luccy. I'm not talking about willpower and gaining confidence from your friends, I'm talking about literal power gained from friends; power of friendship, where you get beaten but your remember your friends or a friend comes and say a damn speech or w/e and then the MC is able to win despite getting his ass handed to him earlier, for no apparent reason. There have been nothing like that in Naruto or any other shounen anime I've watched, if my memory serves me right. |
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tsudecimo said: SetsukoHara said: tsudecimo said: Why would I bring that up? it has no relevance to whether or not a fight is strategic and we are not talking about the quality of one piece fights for me to bring it up. The only battle anime/manga that I read/watched that uses Nakama power are one piece and Fairy Tail, so I don't know about ''every other battle shounen''. I thought your favorite anime was Naruto. Just in the first episode, you have Naruto who manages to create 1000 clones after Mizuki hurt Iruka. You even have countless characters saying people are stronger when they have something to protect. Nakama power is a common trope in shonen, and they're nothing wrong with it in itself, willpower plays a huge role in any physical activities like fights. It all depends on how its use within the story. I didn't watch the first episode of Naruto, believe it or not lol but Naruto made those clones because of the scroll he stole, not because Iruka believed in him or whatever. That's merely spiritual and not literal. Naruto wouldn't have beat Haku, if it weren't for the Kyuubi inside him, no matter how much, he would have wanted to protect Sakura and Sasuke for example, or Pain without the sage power etc. No, Nakama power as in what Natsu does at the end of every arc, and like what Luffy did with Croc and Luccy. I'm not talking about willpower and gaining confidence from your friends, I'm talking about literal power gained from friends; power of friendship, where you get beaten but your remember your friends or a friend comes and say a damn speech or w/e and then the MC is able to win despite getting his ass handed to him earlier, for no apparent reason. There have been nothing like that in Naruto or any other shounen anime I've watched, if my memory serves me right. Actually...he did. Naruto could not make a single one until Iruka was in danger. Suddenly he could make dozens on the spot. Like Setsuko said, nakama power is not only common in shounen, but anime in general. I can't think of any one that involves superpowers that does not include it. I thought you didn't reach the fight with Lucci. Anyway, that wasn't nakama power, but motivation like you said. Luffy's attacks were constantly hurting Lucci, so it's no surprise that a full brunt attack like that was able to take out an already weakened Lucci. The Crocodile one I agree with mostly because of Luffy overcoming the poison, but apart from that his attacks had already been hurting Crocodile, so no surprise there. Punching through bedrock was very exaggerated though, but I still liked it. |
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| Luffy managing to find a final burst of energy within him to take out an already weakened foe isn't really all that bad. What's worse is nuking a previous untouchable foe with sudden power ups. You can say whatever you will bout One Piece but you can't accuse it of doing that. Besides, when did "strategy" become the "end-all-be-all" determiner of a fight's quality? |
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gedata said: Luffy managing to find a final burst of energy within him to take out an already weakened foe isn't really all that bad. What's worse is nuking a previous untouchable foe with sudden power ups. You can say whatever you will bout One Piece but you can't accuse it of doing that. Besides, when did "strategy" become the "end-all-be-all" determiner of a fight's quality? I don't know about the luccy fight since I didn't finish it, because I got bored. I'm merely repeating the comments about it's ending. But what about Croc? Nothing changed between their encounters, yet Luffy managed to win at the end, to be fair this more of Croc being out of character for no reason, than a nakama power. But I still think it's there. I would also like to note that I didn't comment on whether or not Nakama power is bad thing. I didn't say it is. I merely replied to the upset guy in this thread, after he brought it up. I personally think one piece has the worst fights I've seen in any Shounen anime, and the lack of prominent strategy in it's fights is not the only reason why I hold this opinion. So I don't think it's the most important determiner of a fight's quality. |
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tsudecimo said: I didn't watch the first episode of Naruto, believe it or not lol but Naruto made those clones because of the scroll he stole, not because Iruka believed in him or whatever. That's merely spiritual and not literal. Naruto wouldn't have beat Haku, if it weren't for the Kyuubi inside him, no matter how much, he would have wanted to protect Sakura and Sasuke for example, or Pain without the sage power etc. Yet, we never saw him doing that many clones without the help of Kyuubi, which he didn't use during that fight against Mizuki. There's also the fact it happened after he made a friendship speech. Also, during the fight against Haku, he didn't have any control over Kyuubi yet, so it's pretty convenient that he was able to unleash Kyuubi chakra when he needed it to protect his friend. I say, it's the Nakama power that let him use Kyuubi, the same way, it's thanks to nakama power that Goku became a Super Saiyan against Frieza. |
judals said: Berserk has great world building, so does One Piece, better than HxH imo. There is no world building to be done in Jojo considering it's all a copy of our world with a few exceptions.Yes. There are a lot of things going on. Just not complex or revolutionary by themselves. Put them together and they are more "stacked" than intertwined. Like I said the connections don't sell for me. If you don't mind, I'll compare to HxH a little bit: (and make it at least on-topic, lol) Let's say, introducing something completely (minus the foreshadowing) new to the world, such as Nen, and making it not only work but suddenly become the driving force of the show at the time, and it keeps self-generating its own mythologies or as Setsu put it, "pseudo-sciences" -I don't mean it as sarcastically- even outside the context of the story, it's up and running. That's a thousand of these "minuscule connections" on their own. Making that leap and actually having it work, that's brilliant imo. Conversely, the introduction of haki was underwhelming to me because 1) too simple to work with, even within the show and what's given to us 2) we already had DFs and many other ideas to make seem anything special. I mean to me, Nen wasn't a location, or a flashback of a certain person knowing/fighting another person, just a concept, but it added a whole new dimension to the world. This type of ballsy leap alone, if done correctly, I would consider it revolutionary. Let alone someone who had done it 3 times, while managing to keep the consistency in-between. These "leaps" aside, I also consider having those type of connections you mentioened, while not as numerous, done more gracefully, done with characters who had depth, rather than seemingly mannequins (imo) is much better world building. Finally, having done all this, within a shonen than defies all the tropes and conventions, going on in its own direction, having no "limit" and being able to go anywhere while still maintaining story focus, is the best part of it all. HxH aside, I'd consider JoJo, Sinbad no Bouken, Berserk, FMA, and F/Z have better world-building for me. OP stands above the other shonen still in that regard. |
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tsudecimo said: Looks likes you have a broad defintion of the word ''strategic'', if you want to include something like Luffy's fight with Croc as strategic. Going by this logic almost every fight in any form is a strategic fight, if someone attacks and the other person tries to block it with something, that must mean he is countering him, thus it's strategic fight, the same goes for a group of people who decide on a plan, the plan is to kill the enemies, thus their fight will be strategic in this logic. I consider Luffy's fight as much of strategic fight as Naruto's fight against Kiba when he farted, to counter Kiba's sensitive nose. A strategic fight should have strategy as it's main theme and drive. Not just some very very simplistic elements of strateg. And from what I saw in one piece, it didn't have genuine strategic fights. Basic strategy is still strategy. And every fight does involve that in some way no matter how basic. Of course there are fights that involve more, and One Piece has plenty of that just like any other shounen. Most of what people attribute as "strategy" is just basic strategy all prettied up. True strategy would require a lot more exposition than most shows have time for, just like the planning for the palace invasion took several episodes (even though a lot of it was just repeats of the same thing). Most of the time, it is hard to come up with plans of action in the midst of battle, and that is not every character's forte. Luffy is stupid, so fewer of his fights would involve any sort of strategy in comparison to Nami or Usopp. Same as Gon in comparison to Morel. Also, a big factor that many people overlook is the nature of the ABILITY itself. Some abilities leave far more room for creative thinking than others. Like mentioned before, Morel's smoke is much more versatile than Gon's simple enhanced strength, so expecting someone with mere super strength to come up with just as many plans as someone who can change the very nature of an element is faulty expectation. Some characters can only apply the simple strategies of dodging, feinting and attacking, or employing whatever assets they have in their nearby environment, while others have dozens upon dozens of probabilities based on their power alone. I'm sure no one would scorn Netero for simply smacking around Mereum with the giant hands of a Buddha instead of creating smoke clones to fake him out. |
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SetsukoHara said: tsudecimo said: I didn't watch the first episode of Naruto, believe it or not lol but Naruto made those clones because of the scroll he stole, not because Iruka believed in him or whatever. That's merely spiritual and not literal. Naruto wouldn't have beat Haku, if it weren't for the Kyuubi inside him, no matter how much, he would have wanted to protect Sakura and Sasuke for example, or Pain without the sage power etc. during the fight against Haku, he didn't have any control over Kyuubi yet, so it's pretty convenient that he was able to unleash Kyuubi chakra when he needed it to protect his friend. I say, it's the Nakama power that let him use Kyuubi, the same way, it's thanks to nakama power that Goku became a Super Saiyan against Frieza. What are you talking about. The Kyuubi powers were unleashed within Naruto because he had an emotional trigger (i.e When he thought Sasuke was dead), that was always established in the series. That Naruto loses control and gets consumed by the Kyuubi's power when something evokes negative emotions from him and depending on the level of the negative emotions, he can lose complete control or maintain a control over it to an extent. For example, he maintained control when he faced Kimmaro but he completely lost control when Oro, provoked him in that bridge. I can't believe you just said this..you are trying too hard to paint an obvious plot point as a nakama power. |
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GuusWayne said: judals said: Berserk has great world building, so does One Piece, better than HxH imo. There is no world building to be done in Jojo considering it's all a copy of our world with a few exceptions.Yes. There are a lot of things going on. Just not complex or revolutionary by themselves. Put them together and they are more "stacked" than intertwined. Like I said the connections don't sell for me. If you don't mind, I'll compare to HxH a little bit: (and make it at least on-topic, lol) Let's say, introducing something completely (minus the foreshadowing) new to the world, such as Nen, and making it not only work but suddenly become the driving force of the show at the time, and it keeps self-generating its own mythologies or as Setsu put it, "pseudo-sciences" -I don't mean it as sarcastically- even outside the context of the story, it's up and running. That's a thousand of these "minuscule connections" on their own. Making that leap and actually having it work, that's brilliant imo. Conversely, the introduction of haki was underwhelming to me because 1) too simple to work with, even within the show and what's given to us 2) we already had DFs and many other ideas to make seem anything special. I mean to me, Nen wasn't a location, or a flashback of a certain person knowing/fighting another person, just a concept, but it added a whole new dimension to the world. This type of ballsy leap alone, if done correctly, I would consider it revolutionary. Let alone someone who had done it 3 times, while managing to keep the consistency in-between. These "leaps" aside, I also consider having those type of connections you mentioened, while not as numerous, done more gracefully, done with characters who had depth, rather than seemingly mannequins (imo) is much better world building. Finally, having done all this, within a shonen than defies all the tropes and conventions, going on in its own direction, having no "limit" and being able to go anywhere while still maintaining story focus, is the best part of it all. HxH aside, I'd consider JoJo, Sinbad no Bouken, Berserk, FMA, and F/Z have better world-building for me. OP stands above the other shonen still in that regard. Like I said, building in one piece is just some many islands one after the other. Even with 60 episodes sometimes, they don't do any creatve things with the islands. Or the universe itself. Internally or otherwise. RedRose, "no it's not yes it is i am right' You really are good at writing a lot saying so little. Back to our argument, quality. Yes. Get as many island as you want and as many deserts, icy islands or prairies. None of that is groundbreaking to make it into my list of things I consider creatve world building. Too bad hxh never wastes time "exploring" or padding things out in a location. Say what you want about nen but it is the closest thing we got to a perfect battle system. |
GrunbeldMar 26, 2014 8:56 PM
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judals said: GuusWayne said: judals said: Berserk has great world building, so does One Piece, better than HxH imo. There is no world building to be done in Jojo considering it's all a copy of our world with a few exceptions.Yes. There are a lot of things going on. Just not complex or revolutionary by themselves. Put them together and they are more "stacked" than intertwined. Like I said the connections don't sell for me. If you don't mind, I'll compare to HxH a little bit: (and make it at least on-topic, lol) Let's say, introducing something completely (minus the foreshadowing) new to the world, such as Nen, and making it not only work but suddenly become the driving force of the show at the time, and it keeps self-generating its own mythologies or as Setsu put it, "pseudo-sciences" -I don't mean it as sarcastically- even outside the context of the story, it's up and running. That's a thousand of these "minuscule connections" on their own. Making that leap and actually having it work, that's brilliant imo. Conversely, the introduction of haki was underwhelming to me because 1) too simple to work with, even within the show and what's given to us 2) we already had DFs and many other ideas to make seem anything special. I mean to me, Nen wasn't a location, or a flashback of a certain person knowing/fighting another person, just a concept, but it added a whole new dimension to the world. This type of ballsy leap alone, if done correctly, I would consider it revolutionary. Let alone someone who had done it 3 times, while managing to keep the consistency in-between. These "leaps" aside, I also consider having those type of connections you mentioened, while not as numerous, done more gracefully, done with characters who had depth, rather than seemingly mannequins (imo) is much better world building. Finally, having done all this, within a shonen than defies all the tropes and conventions, going on in its own direction, having no "limit" and being able to go anywhere while still maintaining story focus, is the best part of it all. HxH aside, I'd consider JoJo, Sinbad no Bouken, Berserk, FMA, and F/Z have better world-building for me. OP stands above the other shonen still in that regard. Like I said, building in one piece is just some many islands one after the other. Even with 60 episodes sometimes, they don't do any creatve things with the islands. Or the universe itself. Internally or otherwise. RedRose, "no it's not yes it is i am right' You really are good at writing a lot saying so little. Back to our argument, quality. Yes. Get as many island as you want and as many deserts, icy islands or prairies. None of that is groundbreaking to make it into my list of things I consider creatve world building. Too bad hxh never wastes time "exploring" or padding things out in a location. Say what you want about nen but it is the closest thing we got to a perfect battle system. Or you simply miss out completely on what is being said. Again, you missed the point that the government structure and history are also important, not just the place where things are happening (which is all that occurs for HxH). Every place they go to in OP has significance to events that took place in the past and that are shaping the future. They are used to build overarching plot points and give a continuous flow to the narrative. What you have admitted to be groundbreaking was pretty insufficient as well. Interactions between Hisoka and Illumi? What? The only "groundbreaking" thing to come out of that is the yaoi fanfics. If that is what constitutes good worldbuilding, then more power to you. And it is too bad that HxH doesn't spend time exploring because it defeats the entire purpose of the hunter theme in the first place. Nen is good, but nowhere close to being the perfect battle system. It has the same limitations of most other systems and the natural convenience for the author to circumvent problems that arise from certain abilities. |
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| Layed had already mentioned all these points, in a more concise manner. You simply reiterated his points which I already discussed with him, but in a more rambling fashion with no genuine intent of discussion whatsoever. Long story short, they gave us a few details about something they had 60 chapters to talk about. Cool. Not my kind of world building. Too simple and inefficient. And not very original/touching stories anyway. |
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wubikro said: Do you think HxH 2011 will be considered the best battle shonen ever? Many already consider it to be the best battle shonen, but once the arc has concluded, do you think its place will be solidified? It's One Piece the only ONE! |
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judals said: If you think OP islands aren't creative then something is wrong with you, stop trying so hard.GuusWayne said: judals said: Berserk has great world building, so does One Piece, better than HxH imo. There is no world building to be done in Jojo considering it's all a copy of our world with a few exceptions.Yes. There are a lot of things going on. Just not complex or revolutionary by themselves. Put them together and they are more "stacked" than intertwined. Like I said the connections don't sell for me. If you don't mind, I'll compare to HxH a little bit: (and make it at least on-topic, lol) Let's say, introducing something completely (minus the foreshadowing) new to the world, such as Nen, and making it not only work but suddenly become the driving force of the show at the time, and it keeps self-generating its own mythologies or as Setsu put it, "pseudo-sciences" -I don't mean it as sarcastically- even outside the context of the story, it's up and running. That's a thousand of these "minuscule connections" on their own. Making that leap and actually having it work, that's brilliant imo. Conversely, the introduction of haki was underwhelming to me because 1) too simple to work with, even within the show and what's given to us 2) we already had DFs and many other ideas to make seem anything special. I mean to me, Nen wasn't a location, or a flashback of a certain person knowing/fighting another person, just a concept, but it added a whole new dimension to the world. This type of ballsy leap alone, if done correctly, I would consider it revolutionary. Let alone someone who had done it 3 times, while managing to keep the consistency in-between. These "leaps" aside, I also consider having those type of connections you mentioened, while not as numerous, done more gracefully, done with characters who had depth, rather than seemingly mannequins (imo) is much better world building. Finally, having done all this, within a shonen than defies all the tropes and conventions, going on in its own direction, having no "limit" and being able to go anywhere while still maintaining story focus, is the best part of it all. HxH aside, I'd consider JoJo, Sinbad no Bouken, Berserk, FMA, and F/Z have better world-building for me. OP stands above the other shonen still in that regard. Like I said, building in one piece is just some many islands one after the other. Even with 60 episodes sometimes, they don't do any creatve things with the islands. Or the universe itself. Internally or otherwise. RedRose, "no it's not yes it is i am right' You really are good at writing a lot saying so little. Back to our argument, quality. Yes. Get as many island as you want and as many deserts, icy islands or prairies. None of that is groundbreaking to make it into my list of things I consider creatve world building. Too bad hxh never wastes time "exploring" or padding things out in a location. Say what you want about nen but it is the closest thing we got to a perfect battle system. |
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| There isn't much HxH2011 can do to get it off my top spot. I haven't enjoyed an anime this much since i started watching them and I can't ask for more than that. I like watching these types of series, but it hasn't grabbed me that much until this come along. Aside from DBZ nostalgia. |
RedRoseFring said: jonnyhan said: Fierce_Deity22 said: I agree the narration started ruining everything. I can't think of a better way of presenting the narrative without the narration. He is not merely repeating what we already know like One Piece does for 5 minutes of every episode. He is often telling us the innate qualities and thinking of all the characters in the battle where dialogues aren't being exchanged. It probably is a hit or miss style, I personally love it. Take it slow like a glass of Whiskey. That is not often the case. It's actually the complete opposite. Very rarely does the narrator even step in in One Piece. I'd reckon we've had enough narration to cover every single time the narrator speaks in all 600+ episodes of One Piece in the last few HxH episodes. Narration by itself is not a bad thing. I have to disagree with you there as it is often the case. One can seek to 5 minutes in every One Piece episode and not miss a thing, because after the initial redundant intro and long song, you have 2 minutes of recap from previous week via narration. I agree that narration by itself isn't bad, but that narration of things that have happened so far, is the worst. |
jonnyhan said: RedRoseFring said: jonnyhan said: Fierce_Deity22 said: I agree the narration started ruining everything. I can't think of a better way of presenting the narrative without the narration. He is not merely repeating what we already know like One Piece does for 5 minutes of every episode. He is often telling us the innate qualities and thinking of all the characters in the battle where dialogues aren't being exchanged. It probably is a hit or miss style, I personally love it. Take it slow like a glass of Whiskey. That is not often the case. It's actually the complete opposite. Very rarely does the narrator even step in in One Piece. I'd reckon we've had enough narration to cover every single time the narrator speaks in all 600+ episodes of One Piece in the last few HxH episodes. Narration by itself is not a bad thing. I have to disagree with you there as it is often the case. One can seek to 5 minutes in every One Piece episode and not miss a thing, because after the initial redundant intro and long song, you have 2 minutes of recap from previous week via narration. I agree that narration by itself isn't bad, but that narration of things that have happened so far, is the worst. No there is almost no narration in OP, I think we can all agree that narration in recap of an episode doesn't count... or does it? You can just skip the recap.... or the whole episode cause nothing literally happens anyway....just kidding.....or not... |
| "Laugh, and the world laughs with you; Weep, and you weep alone". Ella Wheeler Wilcox |
judals said: Layed had already mentioned all these points, in a more concise manner. You simply reiterated his points which I already discussed with him, but in a more rambling fashion with no genuine intent of discussion whatsoever. Long story short, they gave us a few details about something they had 60 chapters to talk about. Cool. Not my kind of world building. Too simple and inefficient. And not very original/touching stories anyway. Again, your missing the obvious leads me to assume that you only read the first line of my post and move on. I did reiterate a few of Layed's points but added points that he missed and expanded on the idea. It seems like you simply avoid them because you cannot come up with a suitable response without exposing your abandonment of logic :/ And long story short: They gave us many details about points revealed beforehand which were expanded to show their impact on past, present and future and a plethora of characters, not just a single one. |
| "Let Justice Be Done!" My Theme Fight again, fight again for justice! |
jonnyhan said: RedRoseFring said: jonnyhan said: Fierce_Deity22 said: I agree the narration started ruining everything. I can't think of a better way of presenting the narrative without the narration. He is not merely repeating what we already know like One Piece does for 5 minutes of every episode. He is often telling us the innate qualities and thinking of all the characters in the battle where dialogues aren't being exchanged. It probably is a hit or miss style, I personally love it. Take it slow like a glass of Whiskey. That is not often the case. It's actually the complete opposite. Very rarely does the narrator even step in in One Piece. I'd reckon we've had enough narration to cover every single time the narrator speaks in all 600+ episodes of One Piece in the last few HxH episodes. Narration by itself is not a bad thing. I have to disagree with you there as it is often the case. One can seek to 5 minutes in every One Piece episode and not miss a thing, because after the initial redundant intro and long song, you have 2 minutes of recap from previous week via narration. I agree that narration by itself isn't bad, but that narration of things that have happened so far, is the worst. Like soundscape said, the recap hardly counts as narration. It's obviously for those who haven't been following along and just jump in at random episodes. |
| "Let Justice Be Done!" My Theme Fight again, fight again for justice! |
soundscape said: jonnyhan said: RedRoseFring said: jonnyhan said: Fierce_Deity22 said: I agree the narration started ruining everything. I can't think of a better way of presenting the narrative without the narration. He is not merely repeating what we already know like One Piece does for 5 minutes of every episode. He is often telling us the innate qualities and thinking of all the characters in the battle where dialogues aren't being exchanged. It probably is a hit or miss style, I personally love it. Take it slow like a glass of Whiskey. That is not often the case. It's actually the complete opposite. Very rarely does the narrator even step in in One Piece. I'd reckon we've had enough narration to cover every single time the narrator speaks in all 600+ episodes of One Piece in the last few HxH episodes. Narration by itself is not a bad thing. I have to disagree with you there as it is often the case. One can seek to 5 minutes in every One Piece episode and not miss a thing, because after the initial redundant intro and long song, you have 2 minutes of recap from previous week via narration. I agree that narration by itself isn't bad, but that narration of things that have happened so far, is the worst. No there is almost no narration in OP, I think we can all agree that narration in recap of an episode doesn't count... or does it? You can just skip the recap.... or the whole episode cause nothing literally happens anyway....just kidding.....or not... No, man. We all need 10 minutes of a character narrating how a boxer warming up makes him punch stronger. Details. And long story short: They gave us many details about points revealed beforehand which were expanded to show their impact on past, present and future and a plethora of characters, not just a single one. They did. And none of that was good enough world building. Quantitative proof, which is what I pointed out for the third time. You know I could insult your reading capabilities, and in this case, it's true, but i don't feel like discussing things with someone who just wants to bash something and praise something else. Soundscape, yeah, it was like a really mediocre nen condition. Can't say I didn't smile a bit though. A mix of the 'captain obvious' and 'duh' hatsu. Oh and it was 2 weeks ago. |
GrunbeldMar 27, 2014 12:18 PM
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judals said: soundscape said: jonnyhan said: RedRoseFring said: jonnyhan said: Fierce_Deity22 said: I agree the narration started ruining everything. I can't think of a better way of presenting the narrative without the narration. He is not merely repeating what we already know like One Piece does for 5 minutes of every episode. He is often telling us the innate qualities and thinking of all the characters in the battle where dialogues aren't being exchanged. It probably is a hit or miss style, I personally love it. Take it slow like a glass of Whiskey. That is not often the case. It's actually the complete opposite. Very rarely does the narrator even step in in One Piece. I'd reckon we've had enough narration to cover every single time the narrator speaks in all 600+ episodes of One Piece in the last few HxH episodes. Narration by itself is not a bad thing. I have to disagree with you there as it is often the case. One can seek to 5 minutes in every One Piece episode and not miss a thing, because after the initial redundant intro and long song, you have 2 minutes of recap from previous week via narration. I agree that narration by itself isn't bad, but that narration of things that have happened so far, is the worst. No there is almost no narration in OP, I think we can all agree that narration in recap of an episode doesn't count... or does it? You can just skip the recap.... or the whole episode cause nothing literally happens anyway....just kidding.....or not... No, man. We all need 10 minutes of a character narrating how a boxer warming up makes him punch stronger. Details. Hahahahha really? don't remember that... when did that happen? I have stopped watching at the beginning of Dressrosa Arc... waiting to pile up the episodes cause it's unwatchable 1 ep per week... |
| "Laugh, and the world laughs with you; Weep, and you weep alone". Ella Wheeler Wilcox |
judals said: soundscape said: jonnyhan said: RedRoseFring said: jonnyhan said: Fierce_Deity22 said: I agree the narration started ruining everything. I can't think of a better way of presenting the narrative without the narration. He is not merely repeating what we already know like One Piece does for 5 minutes of every episode. He is often telling us the innate qualities and thinking of all the characters in the battle where dialogues aren't being exchanged. It probably is a hit or miss style, I personally love it. Take it slow like a glass of Whiskey. That is not often the case. It's actually the complete opposite. Very rarely does the narrator even step in in One Piece. I'd reckon we've had enough narration to cover every single time the narrator speaks in all 600+ episodes of One Piece in the last few HxH episodes. Narration by itself is not a bad thing. I have to disagree with you there as it is often the case. One can seek to 5 minutes in every One Piece episode and not miss a thing, because after the initial redundant intro and long song, you have 2 minutes of recap from previous week via narration. I agree that narration by itself isn't bad, but that narration of things that have happened so far, is the worst. No there is almost no narration in OP, I think we can all agree that narration in recap of an episode doesn't count... or does it? You can just skip the recap.... or the whole episode cause nothing literally happens anyway....just kidding.....or not... No, man. We all need 10 minutes of a character narrating how a boxer warming up makes him punch stronger. Details. And long story short: They gave us many details about points revealed beforehand which were expanded to show their impact on past, present and future and a plethora of characters, not just a single one. They did. And none of that was good enough world building. Quantitative proof, which is what I pointed out for the third time. You know I could insult your reading capabilities, and in this case, it's true, but i don't feel like discussing things with someone who just wants to bash something and praise something else. Soundscape, yeah, it was like a really mediocre nen condition. Can't say I didn't smile a bit though. A mix of the 'captain obvious' and 'duh' hatsu. Oh and it was 2 weeks ago. I see. For you, detailed points about past, present and future =/= world building. Hisoka and Illumi yaoi fanfics = worldbuilding. And you described yourself to a T. You are completely unable to praise any other series that is not HxH, while even in this thread I have stressed the strong points of the HxH series, including Nen. Pardon my French, but get your head out of HxH's a**. |
| "Let Justice Be Done!" My Theme Fight again, fight again for justice! |
| "You are completely unable to praise any other series that is not HxH" Are you sure? But not that I care what you think, I just want you to stop stalking me. And keep your yaoi fanfics to yourself. |
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judals said: "You are completely unable to praise any other series that is not HxH" Are you sure? But not that I care what you think, I just want you to stop stalking me. And keep your yaoi fanfics to yourself. Oh I'm very sure. You make a point of going around multiple threads doing it anyway. No one is ignorant to that dude. P.S Are you now changing your mind that the interaction between Hisoka and Illumi is not good worldbuilding? Why the change? Realized how silly that was? ;) |
| "Let Justice Be Done!" My Theme Fight again, fight again for justice! |
| @judals Man you make me wanna watch it now.... But I won't I'll wait 1 or maybe 2....years before watching....Still overall there isn't much narration present in OP. Although I disagree with you on the creativity part(I like OP) generally speaking, I agree with you on some other points such as writing and details(but the discussion would be too time consuming:P)... |
| "Laugh, and the world laughs with you; Weep, and you weep alone". Ella Wheeler Wilcox |
| To be fair, it's still got some charisma so it's not bad. The comedy in the first half was actually good. Personally the best way to enjoy it for me is to think of it as a sitcom, and it's not bad at all. I'm having fun. |
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judals said: To be fair, it's still got some charisma so it's not bad. The comedy in the first half was actually good. Personally the best way to enjoy it for me is to think of it as a sitcom, and it's not bad at all. I'm having fun. Almost sounds sincere If one were to ignore all your previous posts ever. |
| "Let Justice Be Done!" My Theme Fight again, fight again for justice! |
| OP's high points were Arabasta, Skypea and Marineford. But even in between, you could enjoy all the non filler episodes as OP had great comedy along with good pace of story progression. These days it has stooped down to Naruto level where I can skip several episodes and still follow what is going on. Then you have overglorification of some characters I don't give two shits about. That dead fish queen for one, that stupid girl (Mocha?) for another. Currently its every Tom, Dick and Harry that is participating in the arena. The most frustrating experience is when the recap covers these characters and a good time at it. Some are mad at screentime of Ikalgo and Welfin's characters. Not the best material I agree, but you still have battle of wits and emotional dilemmas going on between minor characters that put you on the edge of the seat. Then you have moments where you can empathize with characters so strongly, for example Knov's fear and sadness after sneaking out of the palace, Knuckle's declaration that he cannot consider Youpi as a foe to kill because of respect. These scenes aren't your iconic "save the day" action sequences like Killua intervening Knuckle's sure death in the hands of Youpi. Yet those scenes strike a chord and resonate. I don't get that kind of kick out of watching OP anymore. There is no freshness in what it delivers these days. |
| I want the OP anime to go on hiatus SOO badly. |
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jonnyhan said: OP's high points were Arabasta, Skypea and Marineford. But even in between, you could enjoy all the non filler episodes as OP had great comedy along with good pace of story progression. These days it has stooped down to Naruto level where I can skip several episodes and still follow what is going on. Then you have overglorification of some characters I don't give two shits about. That dead fish queen for one, that stupid girl (Mocha?) for another. Currently its every Tom, Dick and Harry that is participating in the arena. The most frustrating experience is when the recap covers these characters and a good time at it. Some are mad at screentime of Ikalgo and Welfin's characters. Not the best material I agree, but you still have battle of wits and emotional dilemmas going on between minor characters that put you on the edge of the seat. Then you have moments where you can empathize with characters so strongly, for example Knov's fear and sadness after sneaking out of the palace, Knuckle's declaration that he cannot consider Youpi as a foe to kill because of respect. These scenes aren't your iconic "save the day" action sequences like Killua intervening Knuckle's sure death in the hands of Youpi. Yet those scenes strike a chord and resonate. I don't get that kind of kick out of watching OP anymore. There is no freshness in what it delivers these days. This isn't the place to discuss OP, but your interest is extremely skewed towards one series to say the least. You don't give "two shits" about the fish queen and Mocha just as majority of people don't give "two shits" about Wolfin and Octobro. At least both fishy and Mocha were emotional moments beyond the control of either character, while Knuckles decision was just a slap in the face to his entire team and Knov's change bizarre in the light of his previous confidence and rank. It is okay to say that those scenes strike a chord with you personally, but to make a generalization is a mistake as it is the complete opposite for the majority. And of course I'll say the same thing to you in regards to the recap that I always do to those who complain about filler: If you hate it so much, why do you watch it? Does someone hold a gun to your head to force you to? |
| "Let Justice Be Done!" My Theme Fight again, fight again for justice! |
RedRoseFring said: This isn't the place to discuss OP I kno rite |
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RedRoseFring said: Well not just OP. As this thread is about whether HxH will become the best battle shounen ever, bringing up other ones and questioning their quality is valid for the most part.This isn't the place to discuss OP |
     Short of the day: Monotonous Purgatory(MAL) ✰Public Domain Club | One Piece Club✰ |
judals said: No, man. We all need 10 minutes of a character narrating how a boxer warming up makes him punch stronger. Details. Soundscape, yeah, it was like a really mediocre nen condition. Can't say I didn't smile a bit though. A mix of the 'captain obvious' and 'duh' hatsu. Oh and it was 2 weeks ago. 10 minutes, for real. I haven't seen the anime, but in the manga, Elizabello's ability only take one page at most (explanation + Backstory). And I don't know why you bash this ability, it's a OK ability for a minor character, very similar to Phinks's ability. I guess you haven't seen it yet, but there will be another ability that kinda look like some Nen stuff. |
SetsukoHaraMar 28, 2014 3:54 PM
| It's the best battle shonen -anime- no doubt, it's the closest thing to perfect battle shonen adaptation When it comes to manga I still prefer OP and Kenshin by a small margin |
Kaimon said: It's the best battle shonen -anime- no doubt, it's the closest thing to perfect battle shonen adaptation When it comes to manga I still prefer OP and Kenshin by a small margin I love the anime but I think the manga is just lazily done. it's almost like a joke. |
Kaimon said: It's the best battle shonen -anime- no doubt, it's the closest thing to perfect battle shonen adaptation When it comes to manga I still prefer OP and Kenshin by a small margin Regardless of the shortcomings of either medium of each in animation/art, the core body of story is much more well-constructed and focused on-to begin with- in HxH imo, and that goes for shonen in general. SetsukoHara said: judals said: No, man. We all need 10 minutes of a character narrating how a boxer warming up makes him punch stronger. Details. Soundscape, yeah, it was like a really mediocre nen condition. Can't say I didn't smile a bit though. A mix of the 'captain obvious' and 'duh' hatsu. Oh and it was 2 weeks ago. 10 minutes, for real. I haven't seen the anime, but in the manga, Elizabello's ability only take one page at most (explanation + Backstory). And I don't know why you bash this ability, it's a OK ability for a minor character, very similar to Phinks's ability. I guess you haven't seen it yet, but there will be another ability that kinda look like some Nen stuff. Haha, well regardless, it felt like a really silly condition. Simple conditions are fine. This is more of the bizarre-common-sense done wrong. It's not like I'm seriously bashing it, I just think it's funny to see what something like a Nen fanfiction is like brought to life :-P |
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| Addressing thread title again, YES! Not only do we have intense battles, but the character development amidst all the havoc is what makes this series unique and elite in the shonen genre. It will be analogous to The Dark Knight of superhero movies, the diamond standard. |
| When this arc ends, it will be a sad day for this fan. Still, I am excited to see how it wraps up. |
| "Yes, I have been deprived of emotion. But not completely. Whoever did it, botched the job." - Geralt of Rivia |
WyattEarp said: As much as I love OP I'm going to have to agree with Judals on this one. I find One Piece to be an extremely simple series; no/very little plot twists, the characters usually are given one or two character traits each that separates them from each other (Most of their personality can be summed up in a few words; Luffy loves eating and is stupid, Zoro has a bad sense of direction and is very upfront, Sanji loves women, Nami loves treasure and is short tempered, Robin is smart and has a dark humor, Franky is a pervert who is very sympathetic, Chopper is extremely compassionate and caring, Usopp is a coward and a liar), very little character development, a reused outlying formula for most arcs with minor changes. It being simple is not necessarily bad, it's just what One Piece chooses to be and does a very good job at it. judals said: WyattEarp said: judals said: Why do one piece fans have to shoehorn their series into everything in an attempt to glorify it? And why do all these points seem like generic insert praises that can be used by anyone? But let's see, adding random aliens, zombies and cyborgs adds perfect continuity but weaving the ants into the story is forced? Transitioning from one arc into the other is disjointed but randomly jumping islands is not? OP is questioning whether HxH will be considered best shonen, logically I will bring up certain shonens that I think have qualified for that position. It's not that the actual adding of these characters is what defined it as good, it's how they feel interlocked together as a continuous story and not just some forced plot device. And often enough in one piece an arc will start off feeling extremely random and somewhat out of place, but one of the things that makes Oda a genius in my eyes is how he's able to flesh out these different islands and cultures and make them feel like part of a continuous world and story filled with believable people. I haven't been getting that at all with the CA arc, however I got that same feeling with most of the previous arcs in HxH. My second line answered it. They aren't really interlocked, is the problem. He simply introduced them, and forgot to flesh them out at all... look at the Chimera ants, how they were characterized as whole and individually,, they didn't just appear, and started doing evil things just because, and there were so many perspectives for the characters. In OP, each is just given a gimmick to play as. The MCs themselves aren't given any depth. That's not necessarily bad in itself, this is an action show after all, but this offer of quantity can't really be considered top writing. Especially when there are new players in town doing the same; FT. Haha well thet's where were just gonna have to agree to disagree, the OP crewmembers are fleshed out incredibly well imo, especially during their backstories and the turning points in which they decide to join luffy, and there is immense amounts of character interaction, and first and foremost the characters in one piece actually have personalities and are fun to watch (or in my case read). I feel the characterization of the chimera ants to be extremely flat, sure they have different intentions and perspectives but that doesn't make them believable or even interesting. Hunter x Hunter, however, is very complex. It's like the complete opposite of One Piece; apples and oranges. I'll watch One Piece if I want a bit of fun with a light kind of feel to it, I'll watch Hunter x Hunter for the tension and character interactions. The One Piece characters are great but I'm going to have to disagree with you when you say that characters are fleshed out for the sole reason that they get hardly any development outside of their introductory arcs. |
MinagatachiApr 15, 2014 9:11 PM
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Poll: » Who is your Favourite character?PushedCaraway - Mar 29 |
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Poll: » Hunter x Hunter (2011) Episode 135 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page )Stark700 - Jun 24, 2014 |
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