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Ookami to Koushinryou II Episode 4 Discussion
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Poll: Ookami to Koushinryou II Episode 4 Discussion


07-30-09, 5:54 PM

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israfel070 said:

God, Mazui's timing on this episode is shit. The subs during the sell-on-credit scene were unwatchable.

Awful yes.

I think Lawrence's Holo's guardian too, he's the only one related to her in this town anyway. This episode was interesting and a nice build up for the duel coming next, but it lacked some Holo presence and teasing.
 
07-30-09, 5:58 PM

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zerokill said:
How do I know that Lawrence is going to own Amarty's ass into the ground... Also, I think Lawrence might be Horo's guardian 0.0


Yeah, that was the point of Lawrence's panic...at first he thought Horo was helping him out by telling Amarty's assets, but the signed marriage certificate means that if she gets freed, Lawrence is no longer her guardian and she's legally married to Amarty.

Which is different from before in that even if Horo was freed she could choose who she wanted to go with.

I thought that whole part was excellently done...kinda bad for Lawrence though D:
 
07-30-09, 6:04 PM

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He never "knew" her village didn't exist. He just heard a tale about a mythical bear destroying it from that witch last episode or two ago. She was just acting paranoid when she found out he didn't tell her about it.

I still can't rule out this is one of horo's games. She has shown time and time again that she is good at and enjoys playing game's with him. She likes to see him do his thing. I couldn't help but believe this likely when she had the marriage contract and a list of "The Knight's" assets delivered to Lawrence, almost as if challenging him to win her. If she really wanted to go, he obviously doesn't have the power to stop her since she could kill him easily, but even if she decided she had to follow the idea that she owed him money, she could merely help Amarty out or make it herself (she is of course arguably as good a merchant as Lawrence and even more skilled at smooth talking).

It is almost like this is one big "show me how much i am worth to you by using all of your assets to win me" scheme. Both horo and Lawrence are master smooth talkers, so the only way to really communicate the feelings of such a master of money might be giving up that money for her.

Whether she is faking her tantrum or it is real, it is a pretty crappy thing for her to do, not only to Lawrence (obviously), but Amarty too whom seems to honestly be a nice guy. Sadly for Amarty though he is going after the main character's love interest which makes it pretty hard not to hate him though.
Modified by Murbella, 07-30-09, 6:07 PM
 
07-30-09, 6:27 PM

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The "Guardian" is Lawrence. A better translation would be something like "creditor." She owes him 1,000 silver, and as such has some legal rights over her, like forcing her to travel with him. This is what Amati thinks their relationship is, and he's rescuing her by paying off her debt. It's also why he got so PISSED when Lawrence said he'd held Horo while she was crying; Amati thinks Lawrence used her as his personal prostitute to pay off her debt.

If Amati gets the 1,000, Lawrence doesn't have a choice and will have to sign on their marriage license.

Sending Lawrence a copy is basically Horo telling him that she already accepted Amati's marriage proposal in advance. If he wants to keep her, he has to stop being lukewarm about his feelings, get serious and fight off Amati. That's Lawrence's interpretation, anyway.
 
07-30-09, 6:28 PM

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Falatorx said:
I still can't rule out this is one of horo's games. She has shown time and time again that she is good at and enjoys playing game's with him. She likes to see him do his thing.


This was my impression as well.
 
07-30-09, 7:13 PM

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Zero_r2 said:

...im so relaxed knowing that the kiss scene was only the imagination of lawrence..


 
07-30-09, 7:35 PM

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Woot!.....hes gonna crash the whole freakin' market for her GO LAWRENCE!!

iday12 said:
Is it just me or do all of these episodes seem to fly by in five minutes?


LOL It felt the same way as well....the ep felt pretty short even though it was 24 min long

Xxshaku-chanxX said:
WHATS WRONG WITH BONG PEOPLE HOLY!
racism i say!
*shaku stomps off angrily*

MrCK said:
BONG PEOPLE...lol
 
07-30-09, 7:39 PM
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MrCK1193 said:
Woot!.....hes gonna crash the whole freakin' market for her GO LAWRENCE!!
It is certainly one of the more unique ways to show your feelings. ;)
 
07-30-09, 8:10 PM

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LETS GO LAWRENCE! Time to step up and pull the big one.

God Armati's cockiness makes me want to kick his ass so much. Blowing up after Lawrence telling him, no worries me and Horo have had fights in the past and I have consoled her really made me loathe his intentions on marrying Horo even more. Especially when he said I was trying to do you a favor by not taking everything from you...

Great episode, can't wait till the next one.
 
07-30-09, 8:11 PM

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The scarf Amati bought for Horo made her look even more beautiful!

(I still don't like Amatai though ><)
 
07-30-09, 8:20 PM

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Falatorx said:
He never "knew" her village didn't exist. He just heard a tale about a mythical bear destroying it from that witch last episode or two ago. She was just acting paranoid when she found out he didn't tell her about it.

I still can't rule out this is one of horo's games. She has shown time and time again that she is good at and enjoys playing game's with him. She likes to see him do his thing. I couldn't help but believe this likely when she had the marriage contract and a list of "The Knight's" assets delivered to Lawrence, almost as if challenging him to win her. If she really wanted to go, he obviously doesn't have the power to stop her since she could kill him easily, but even if she decided she had to follow the idea that she owed him money, she could merely help Amarty out or make it herself (she is of course arguably as good a merchant as Lawrence and even more skilled at smooth talking).

It is almost like this is one big "show me how much i am worth to you by using all of your assets to win me" scheme. Both horo and Lawrence are master smooth talkers, so the only way to really communicate the feelings of such a master of money might be giving up that money for her.

Whether she is faking her tantrum or it is real, it is a pretty crappy thing for her to do, not only to Lawrence (obviously), but Amarty too whom seems to honestly be a nice guy. Sadly for Amarty though he is going after the main character's love interest which makes it pretty hard not to hate him though.


Ya I pretty much agree with you. From the start of this ark it's felt more like a big game that Horo started in order to get Lawrence to show how much he cares about her and possibly force his feelings out in the open. I think even if Lawrence loses the bet, Horo will still rip up the contract and go with him or possibly mess with his feelings a bit.

One possibility is if he does lose, she may play around a bit by saying she's leaving him and wants him to sign the marriage contract as a way to force him to verbally say he wants her to stay with him. Once he does you know she's gonna rip the contract up and go with him. The real question is what will Amati do if she rips the contract? Will he follow them throughout the story? Will he find out her secret?

She's over a hundred years old so I'm pretty sure news about her home town being attacked and possibly being destroyed have already reached her ears far before Lawrence was born lol. I'm sure that's one of the reasons she wants to go back. To see if the news is true and if anyone is left.
 
07-30-09, 9:16 PM

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Not much Horo this episode, but we got to see what Lawrence's master plan was. Next few episodes should be pretty epic.
 
07-30-09, 9:24 PM

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Great Ep. It's true what others have said, episodes fly by really quickly. Not something you'd expect from a show centered around medieval trading o.O

In any case, I'm sorta on the fence about whether or not this is all part of Holo's games. While I certainly wouldn't put it past her to pull off something like this, her freakout seemed genuine to me.

I wouldn't be surprised if, after having Lawrence running around like a fool for her, it's actually Holo who does some sort of confession first, possibly humiliating Amati in the process. Less of a "challenge" really and more like an indirect punishment for keeping too many secrets, but also a backhanded apology for overreacting.

Of course, I could be reading too much into this, and Holo really is just messing with poor Lawrence's head/heart again.

Anyways, Amati is just a damn spoiled rich kid who thinks he can win in a man's game. Go Lawrence!
 
07-30-09, 9:42 PM

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Honestly, Holo (I guess now that it's canon) is being a big mooch. Game or not, she's just not worth the trouble, so I don't care who wins or looses. Though I was pretty neutral on my stance regarding Amati, after this episode, I kind of don't like him...so a great fantasy of mine would be that Lawerence suckers him for all the money he can get, shove Holo off to him, pick up Deanna or some random girl, and just leave the city. Not a bad episode.
 
07-30-09, 11:33 PM

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Pretty good episode...but Horo's screen time was seriously lacking. I still prefer to spell her name as Horo rather than Holo. Can't wait for more.
 
07-31-09, 1:23 AM

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lols.. great episode =D


 
07-31-09, 1:50 AM

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Woohoooo! Early form of option pricing!
Those who understands complex financial derivatives say AYE!
Those who don't, I highly recommend "Options, futures and other derivatives" by Hull. And I always thought it was the greeks who used it first... anime proved me wrong :-P


Good episode. I think Horo didn't overreact. I also think Horo might be playing with him a little bit, since he was so over confident that Horo will go with him, she might want to put him on his toes a little bit.
.
 
07-31-09, 2:50 AM

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ZetaZeta said:
I'm wonder what guardian Horo would have sign that marriage contract.


Lawrence is. And it's the whole point of this arc, whether he sells her to Amarty or not, as her guardian.

Average episode, I thought that the second season of S&W could still withstand an episode without Holo and be great (which the first season clearly could not) thanks to its direction and atmosphere, but in fact, no. This series is still heavily dependent on Holo and the Holo/Lawrence relationship, if you take out Holo, there is simply no enjoyment since the other aspects of the series are less interestingly developed.

In every age, in every place, the deeds of men remain the same.
 
07-31-09, 3:08 AM

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iday12 said:
I also think that amarty will go down. this was a good episode, we learned finally what Lawrence plans to do to stop Amarty, although the episode could have had more Horo. Is it just me or do all of these episodes seem to fly by in five minutes?


Ye i was kinda suprised that it went quick xD

liked the episode very much, and yes go to hell amarty <.<
 
07-31-09, 3:32 AM

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Jesus, people, there's only so far in denial you can be. Even if you ignored the website, the other website's source code, the official license and the various S&W paraphernalia the episode itself calls her Holo. By all means call her Horo in your hearts, or whatever, but please call her Holo on message boards so as not to confuse or mislead newcomers.

I was very entertained that the "Do not pirate" message was also translated by Mazui.

Must... not... post... spoilers... I just realised how awful it is to have read the book and be unable to correct or elaborate upon all the theories bounding around.
 
07-31-09, 3:46 AM

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Wow, these episodes are great fun to watch. I agree with the idea that this is a direct challenge to Lawrence by Holo. Lawrence was under the impression that he could get her to ignore the contract in Amarty won out. This was essentially Holo's way of saying "Win the challenge, yourself."

My familiarity with tropes, though, says this won't play out the way Lawrence described it. It never does. The plan that's explained on camera is the one that always fails. It's the plan that doesn't isn't revealed until it happens that works. I wonder what the complication will be, and how Lawrence will handle it.
 
07-31-09, 4:56 AM

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who is gonna be in despair next ep, if its Lawrence , then more ep to this Amarty Arc which is not necessarily a bad thing.
 
07-31-09, 5:06 AM

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yea Holo man Holo get it right lmao

Awesome Sig by Lailide
 
07-31-09, 5:22 AM

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bah... horo didnt actually speak one word throughout the whole episode >:(
no horo = no love
 
07-31-09, 6:04 AM

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J3T said:
Damn it, her name is indeed 'Holo' but I still refuse to accept it. It was a good episode, I can't wait to see how the 'duel' between Lawrence and Amati turns out.
I thought the same thing about her name. I just kept saying 'Horo' to myself to kinda get it that image out of my head.

The episode was clean though, we haven't really seen any market swaying tactics from Lawerence yet, so I was a little excited about that. There was absolutely no Horo though, just her looking fair in the window of Amarti's room.
 
07-31-09, 6:53 AM

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Darn cliffhanger.. The next episode's title being "Wolf and Hope and Despair" doesn't really help either. Will Lawrence and Horo make up? Or will they throw another twist in before they conclude this arc? Argh

 
07-31-09, 7:00 AM

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MRLX69 said:
Woohoooo! Early form of option pricing!
Those who understands complex financial derivatives say AYE!
Those who don't, I highly recommend "Options, futures and other derivatives" by Hull. And I always thought it was the greeks who used it first... anime proved me wrong :-P


Good episode. I think Horo didn't overreact. I also think Horo might be playing with him a little bit, since he was so over confident that Horo will go with him, she might want to put him on his toes a little bit.


Thales is commonly credited with inventing the futures option.

Medieval Europe did see some financial innovations from the Knights Templar, involving exchange rates and factors comparable to interest rates.

Holo is apparently accustomed to males who are a lot more macho and forceful than Lawrence. Therefore she seems to feel the need to put him through hell.
 
07-31-09, 7:14 AM

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noteDhero said:
Honestly, Holo (I guess now that it's canon) is being a big mooch. Game or not, she's just not worth the trouble, so I don't care who wins or looses. Though I was pretty neutral on my stance regarding Amati, after this episode, I kind of don't like him...so a great fantasy of mine would be that Lawerence suckers him for all the money he can get, shove Holo off to him, pick up Deanna or some random girl, and just leave the city. Not a bad episode.


Holo isn't worth the trouble for any man who is aggressive enough to please her. She wants some macho wife-beating bad boy, apparently.

However, Lawrence is just enough of a gambler and a strategist to try to score with a crazy high-maintenance chick. Lawrence, perhaps, just doesn't want to settle down with the girl who wanted to open a store, and he doesn't want to hire prostitutes. Lawrence wants a *challenge*. He wants a woman who is an adventure.

He should have been more careful about what he wished for...
 
07-31-09, 8:18 AM

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The make up sex is coming amirite guys? xD

 
07-31-09, 9:10 AM

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PandaPuff said:
The make up sex is coming amirite guys? xD


that would be quite the sight.

Amarty bugs. Glad that the scene where Horo and him are about to "kiss" are just a figment of Lawrence's imagination. Hope things turn out well next episode.
 
07-31-09, 9:12 AM

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It's clear how all this will end but how they reach the conclusion through Lawrence's intricate plan is quite interesting/entertaining.

@PandaPuff, of course the make up sex is coming... hopefully Holo will be gentle with Lawrence.
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07-31-09, 9:28 AM

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after what they have been through i am pretty sure she is getting back at him for not telling her after all this time. in the end she'll say it was all a joke.
 
07-31-09, 10:20 AM

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I can't stand that Amarty kid, he's like some self-righteous bitch. I hope Lawrence pwns his ass.
 
07-31-09, 10:33 AM

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Well, he does have a reason to be self-righteous. Lawrence and... holo have been telling everyone that she is basically a poor, defenseless woman forced to "work" (i'm sure the implication that it is more than just traveling with him is there) for the evil Lawrence because of her debt. She is even a nun. So if Amarty has feelings for holo, from what he thinks he knows of their situation, of course he won't like Lawrence and will think he is the knight coming to her rescue.

Thinking more about it, Holo is probably pissed that Lawrence is obviously embarrassed by her company when with his fellow traders. If i remember right, when he got the information about her village, i think that was the reason he told he that he was going alone.
 
07-31-09, 2:06 PM

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iday12 said:
Is it just me or do all of these episodes seem to fly by in five minutes?


I swear they are only 5 minutes ;p Usually i sit down watch the Intro with its relaxing tunes and then suddenly its over and i have to stand up again to stop before preview comes. Also funny that legal notice (in japanese no less!)

Aside that - I don't see why Amarty accepted that credit trading deal, every third rate trader could see that this is a very dangerous trade - he is increasing his opponents leverage without gaining anything from it. Its a fools trade with fools gold, also trade with fools gold was usually punished in the medieval times. Especially the church didn't like it (because apart from fooling buyers it also spreads paganism), so no sane trader would touch Pyrite.
Modified by eRe4s3r, 07-31-09, 2:13 PM
 
07-31-09, 2:27 PM

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:( I want Lawrence to break down in a colorful confession next episode :D lol

That scrolling text was annoying, Mazui translated the first one correctly, second one was made fun of (I lol'd), but the first translation they used was pretty much correct. I guess Brains Base just can't handle their work being distributed on intarwebs? Well, they're not well known anyways, Lol.

 
07-31-09, 2:34 PM

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Needs more Horo.
Intresting episode though. Loved all the angry faces Lawrence made.
iday12 said:
Is it just me or do all of these episodes seem to fly by in five minutes?
Yeah, I was surprised when ED came on.
 
07-31-09, 3:13 PM

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PandaPuff said:
The make up sex is coming amirite guys? xD


Lol.
 
07-31-09, 10:36 PM

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Yakumo_Fujii said:
Amarty goes DOWN!!! After having seen this ep I got my hope in Lawrence back! He will defnetly pull off some big thing and smash Amarty. I cant stand that girlish looking guy anyway.
 
08-01-09, 12:16 AM

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Great stuff, look forward to the master plan in action >:D
 
08-01-09, 2:12 AM

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<--- can't help but hating amarty...
"Those who satisfied with bad end are not worthy to be called as gamer" by Keima
 
08-01-09, 10:57 AM

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Amarty !
KILL... HIM... !>_<
 
08-01-09, 2:11 PM

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Yup, i agree, he should dieee...
I hope there will be more "Horo time" in the next ep ;p
ʕ • ᴥ • ʔ
 
08-02-09, 7:34 AM

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Very helpful episode, Lawrence was able to think things through and made a plan... problem is if that plan would blow in his face again :)

Will have to wait for one more week to know what will happen next :D

| The void is endless |
 
08-02-09, 8:06 AM

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I miss Horo, hope Lawrence gets her back soon.
 
08-02-09, 9:47 AM

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I lol'd when you saw Holo's signature as "Holo" and Lawrence was surprised and jumped.

I imagined 95% of the watchers having the same reaction.

Great episode, and it's looking good. Since I've watched episode 1/2's 'next episode' thingies (iirc), I noticed they make the next episodes look very different than what it really is, so I'm glad I stop at the ED (I don't like it so much so I stop at it's start).

Can't wait for next week.
「Godspeed You! Black Emperor」
 
08-02-09, 3:05 PM

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This can turn out interesting.
 
08-02-09, 7:14 PM

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Nicely done. This economic tomfoolery is much more entertaining than a lot of the other contrived gambits you see in anime. I am fully hoping for and expecting a Trading Places Randolph & Mortimer Duke-style meltdown within the next couple of episodes.

I hate it when they do this though (very last scene):
 
08-02-09, 7:48 PM

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Amarty made a good choice in refusing.
a very good point about not wanting to put his reputation and his shop's name on the line.
good thing he ended up helping Lawrence after all.
 
08-03-09, 12:05 AM

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enkil said:
Amarty made a good choice in refusing.
a very good point about not wanting to put his reputation and his shop's name on the line.
good thing he ended up helping Lawrence after all.

I think you mean Mark. ;D
 
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