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Jul 30, 2009 7:56 AM
#81
I suppose Battler has the power of an "observer" (in a physics sense), which may be the reason Beatrice can't directly show magic in front of him..... I won't be surprised if they threw some physics/philosophical theories to explain some of the events that is happening.... |
bla bla bla The endless debate between fans and haters. At one point, after spending a lot of time on MAL, you just realize it's totally pointless.Niko-kun said: On MAL, everyone who has used the lame rating system becomes a critic and an intellectual by default, haven't you heard? |
Jul 30, 2009 8:09 AM
#82
mouselmm said: Who's ready for EP2's tea party's mi~Nipa ^_^ great pacing with this episode, Yukarin's appearance is WIN Agreed with the boob fanservice though. Before I thought that Jessica's boob-physics whenever she turned was excessive, but then I saw Shannon in Tea Party...enough is enough. Still, this shot makes me laugh Suggested speech bubble: Bern: And after 23495817239482938 cycles, I'm still flat I saw what you did th4r. xD |
Jul 30, 2009 8:13 AM
#83
TheCorruptedOne said: True. I guess that was made on purpose. Anyway, great ep.Excellent episode :) I was quite surprised when I saw Rika-chama Bernkastel. |
Jul 30, 2009 8:20 AM
#84
wow for a first timer to the no naku koro ni series, this anime is sooooo confusing. im like being wtf the entire time for the 5 eps so far. but from wat ive seen in the forums, it seems the fun continues on. this anime really is epic. i need to seee higurashi after this immediately lol. but yea im with battler.i think all those murders could really be done by human.and in this anime, i believe beatrice is fake and thus, im with battler. however, i dont think battler could solve it all himself. we need to call L, the world's greatest detective who brought down a massive killer who used a magic notebook that kills anyone whose name is written on it LOL ps. just HAD to make that death note reference.im sure light is a better killer than beatrice though. |
Jul 30, 2009 8:30 AM
#85
I'm so confused.. can someone explain this episode to me without spoiling anything? You're all discussing things that make no sense to me o.o |
Jul 30, 2009 8:30 AM
#86
kaena said: wow for a first timer to the no naku koro ni series, this anime is sooooo confusing. im like being wtf the entire time for the 5 eps so far. but from wat ive seen in the forums, it seems the fun continues on. this anime really is epic. i need to seee higurashi after this immediately lol. but yea im with battler.i think all those murders could really be done by human.and in this anime, i believe beatrice is fake and thus, im with battler. however, i dont think battler could solve it all himself. we need to call L, the world's greatest detective who brought down a massive killer who used a magic notebook that kills anyone whose name is written on it LOL ps. just HAD to make that death note reference.im sure light is a better killer than beatrice though. So you haven't watched Higurashi?? Watch it. NOW. |
Jul 30, 2009 8:42 AM
#87
Lolz so that's one ending? and looks like it's a battle between of logic and magic then? and are there more witches rite? |
Jul 30, 2009 8:44 AM
#88
Good episode. Loved Beatrice and she have big boobs. I'm not fan of the two factions you speak about. And i haven't played the game or see Higurashi. :) |
Jul 30, 2009 8:44 AM
#89
vinesage said: LOL?? what kind of show is that?? this got to be one of the dumbest i have ever seen until they can prove me wrong in the "still to be shown" episodes.... and the only one person (maria) i want to see dead sooo bad throughout the 5 episodes didnt suffer a totally miserable death?? i want to see her face cut in two as well...(graphically) ps: preview http://umineko.tv/web/main/onair/index.html What? Having her body torn apart and eaten by demons. Then being revived and slowly turned back into the pitiful pile of flesh that she was when she was dead wasn't a horrible enough demise? Sick bastard. |
Jul 30, 2009 8:45 AM
#90
Beatrice is awesome. Hope the next arc is better. |
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Jul 30, 2009 8:48 AM
#91
kameko14 said: I'm so confused.. can someone explain this episode to me without spoiling anything? You're all discussing things that make no sense to me o.o Everyone died. The scene you saw afterward was a place called Purgatorio where Battler goes against Beatrice Battler tries to prove that everything can be explained with human tricks Beatrice tries to prove that it's impossible for humans, forcing him to accept that it was a witch with magic. Purgatorio is a different world/dimension. The fact that Beatrice exists there does not prove that she exists in the world of Rokkenjima and that she was the culprit behind everything. This is just the premise. The real story of Umineko has begun. There are many twists, turns and surprises in the future. Sit back and enjoy the ride, because you're in for a hell of a ride. |
Jul 30, 2009 8:54 AM
#92
noteDhero said: I see what you're saying, but there is also the fact that there is the mystery of Beatrice's riddle and where the gold is...which is more than enough fodder for a good mystery to me. I think the presence of Bernkastel leaves room for her to meddle a bit, but that's a different discussion. But thanks for pointing out the factions...I don't really see how people can believe that she doesn't exist, especially given the conversation with Bernkastel, and the supernatural elements of the Naku Koro Ni series, but oh wells. Most anti-fantasy, like me, don't actually believe that witches and magic don't exist at all. We believe that the murders throughout the series were not done with magic, and that none of the... You know what I really can't say any more without spoiling shit.... The whole design of the mystery is so some things can never be solved by the viewer until the answers. This allows you to speculate essentially infinitely. These can't be proven wrong, but they also can't be proven right til the answer come out. You're also always plain ass confused as hell. This is nothing, it gets so infinitely more confusing. Anyway, I will say that some of the scenes you have seen already have been proven to have never actually happened.... hehehe. One more thing. Don't believe anything that is not seen by Battler (not even necessarily then) or isn't the red truth. |
DrZedJul 30, 2009 10:28 AM
Jul 30, 2009 8:54 AM
#93
The thing about this Antifantasy/Antimystery is that such stories will ever have speculativ things, even when you get the ansaws. Such stories are also sometimes known as "Weird fiction" And there is a Note about it: _______________________________________________________________ The true weird tale has something more than secret murder, bloody bones, or a sheeted form clanking chains according to rule. A certain atmosphere of breathless and unexplainable dread of outer, unknown forces must be present; and there must be a hint, expressed with a seriousness and portentousness becoming its subject, of that most terrible conception of the human brain--a malign and particular suspension or defeat of those fixed laws of Nature which are our only safeguard against the assaults of chaos and the daemons of unplumbed space. Written by the poet and novelist H.P. Lovecraft _______________________________________________________________ Do you see the semilaretis to Umineko? |
The oldest and strongest emotion of mankind is fear, and the oldest and strongest kind of fear ist the fear of the unknown. H.P. Lovecraft |
Jul 30, 2009 9:00 AM
#94
Jul 30, 2009 9:13 AM
#95
wtf this became totally stupid in an instant?! waiting for ep6 before judging, but i don't have high hopes... why does everyone remember their death's and nobody really cares.. how could someone actually not believe in a witch after so many people got killed and revived omg i'm so disappointed because this was the anime i was most excited about this season.... |
Jul 30, 2009 9:17 AM
#96
This series is bit confusing, but quite interesting. Can't wait to see the next arc. |
Jul 30, 2009 9:18 AM
#97
Witches don't exist! I refuse to believe! D': |
Jul 30, 2009 9:20 AM
#98
Zedrane said: vinesage said: LOL?? what kind of show is that?? this got to be one of the dumbest i have ever seen until they can prove me wrong in the "still to be shown" episodes.... and the only one person (maria) i want to see dead sooo bad throughout the 5 episodes didnt suffer a totally miserable death?? i want to see her face cut in two as well...(graphically) ps: preview http://umineko.tv/web/main/onair/index.html What? Having her body torn apart and eaten by demons. Then being revived and slowly turned back into the pitiful pile of flesh that she was when she was dead wasn't a horrible enough demise? Sick bastard. are u saying that, laughing at corpses of your relatives whose faces are completely torn apart, isnt sick? I'd say Maria is the one of the sickest character i have seen and by far sicker than this serial murderer they are after. If i must define the evil in this show then it is definitely called maria.... and evil does, most of the time, deserve their suitable end (and i didnt see her end) |
Jul 30, 2009 9:21 AM
#99
xoxo said: wtf this became totally stupid in an instant?! waiting for ep6 before judging, but i don't have high hopes... why does everyone remember their death's and nobody really cares.. how could someone actually not believe in a witch after so many people got killed and revived omg i'm so disappointed because this was the anime i was most excited about this season.... I'm fine with people accepting the witch and thinking she did it but if you insult the series or belittle it then it makes me want to smack you with spoilers to show how little that you know. Don't act like that you know everything. The real story has just started. |
LunarEmeraldJul 30, 2009 9:25 AM
Jul 30, 2009 9:21 AM
#100
Jul 30, 2009 9:23 AM
#101
MarthX said: I'm fine with people accepting the witch and thinking she did it but if you insult the series or belittle it then it makes me want to smack you with spoilers to show how little that you know. Don't act like that you know everything. The real story has just started. Who's belittling? D: |
Jul 30, 2009 9:24 AM
#102
Foggle said: MarthX said: I'm fine with people accepting the witch and thinking she did it but if you insult the series or belittle it then it makes me want to smack you with spoilers to show how little that you know. Don't act like that you know everything. The real story has just started. Who's belittling? D: My post was in reponse to posts like xoxo's |
Jul 30, 2009 9:25 AM
#103
MarthX said: Foggle said: MarthX said: I'm fine with people accepting the witch and thinking she did it but if you insult the series or belittle it then it makes me want to smack you with spoilers to show how little that you know. Don't act like that you know everything. The real story has just started. Who's belittling? D: My post was in reponse to posts like xoxo's Ah, didn't see that one. |
Jul 30, 2009 9:27 AM
#104
vinesage said: Zedrane said: vinesage said: LOL?? what kind of show is that?? this got to be one of the dumbest i have ever seen until they can prove me wrong in the "still to be shown" episodes.... and the only one person (maria) i want to see dead sooo bad throughout the 5 episodes didnt suffer a totally miserable death?? i want to see her face cut in two as well...(graphically) ps: preview http://umineko.tv/web/main/onair/index.html What? Having her body torn apart and eaten by demons. Then being revived and slowly turned back into the pitiful pile of flesh that she was when she was dead wasn't a horrible enough demise? Sick bastard. are u saying that, laughing at corpses of your relatives whose faces are completely torn apart, isnt sick? I'd say Maria is the one of the sickest character i have seen and by far sicker than this serial murderer they are after. If i must define the evil in this show then it is definitely called maria.... and evil does, most of the time, deserve their suitable end (and i didnt see her end) I don't want to spoil you but you can rewatch everything that Maria has said or done. She isn't an evil person. She truly trusts Beatrice and waits for the opening of the Golden Land. Since she 100% believes in Beatrice those deaths aren't something bad for her. She has always tried to help Battler, from her point of view. Make yourself believe in Beatrice and the twilights then see if you're not happy when all the dead get resurrected and sent into a Utopia. I only summarized what you could have learned from Episode 1 (first arc) if you had paid more attention to Maria's goals, not her means. Also, don't judge her before you get to learn about her, which will happen. |
Jul 30, 2009 9:32 AM
#105
Jul 30, 2009 9:36 AM
#106
MarthX said: kameko14 said: I'm so confused.. can someone explain this episode to me without spoiling anything? You're all discussing things that make no sense to me o.o Everyone died. The scene you saw afterward was a place called Purgatorio where Battler goes against Beatrice Battler tries to prove that everything can be explained with human tricks Beatrice tries to prove that it's impossible for humans, forcing him to accept that it was a witch with magic. Purgatorio is a different world/dimension. The fact that Beatrice exists there does not prove that she exists in the world of Rokkenjima and that she was the culprit behind everything. This is just the premise. The real story of Umineko has begun. There are many twists, turns and surprises in the future. Sit back and enjoy the ride, because you're in for a hell of a ride. I understand that the purgatory area is a completly different world, but like Xoxo above me, mentioned the fact that everybody remembers their deaths and experiences thereof, so in this purgatory, is meant to be the main setting wherein Battler tries to prove Beatrice wrong, and Beatrice trys to do the opposite, and they need to know how the deaths occured and what not to prove it or something similar... because I just don't understand why they all remembered. If a VN Reader can shed some light on this, it would be apprecieated. |
Jul 30, 2009 9:37 AM
#107
Kiseki said: yeah kinda strange but it think its totally fine, since this is a show which confronts logic with magic. so even the bad ending stuff was amusing for me at least. rika <3 i mean bernkastel but cool act^^ since the witches finally showed up it will begin to be really interesting now. That fucker is Rika with a teleporter. Witches =/= real. I will not believe! )': |
Jul 30, 2009 9:46 AM
#108
Jul 30, 2009 9:47 AM
#109
I had not answered any of the mysteries but I might have given a little too much information. Rufusruferson said: Actually I think I put in a little too much information so read it at your own risk. MarthX said: kameko14 said: I'm so confused.. can someone explain this episode to me without spoiling anything? You're all discussing things that make no sense to me o.o Everyone died. The scene you saw afterward was a place called Purgatorio where Battler goes against Beatrice Battler tries to prove that everything can be explained with human tricks Beatrice tries to prove that it's impossible for humans, forcing him to accept that it was a witch with magic. Purgatorio is a different world/dimension. The fact that Beatrice exists there does not prove that she exists in the world of Rokkenjima and that she was the culprit behind everything. This is just the premise. The real story of Umineko has begun. There are many twists, turns and surprises in the future. Sit back and enjoy the ride, because you're in for a hell of a ride. I understand that the purgatory area is a completly different world, but like Xoxo above me, mentioned the fact that everybody remembers their deaths and experiences thereof, so in this purgatory, is meant to be the main setting wherein Battler tries to prove Beatrice wrong, and Beatrice trys to do the opposite, and they need to know how the deaths occured and what not to prove it or something similar... because I just don't understand why they all remembered. If a VN Reader can shed some light on this, it would be apprecieated. They were beckoned to the Golden Land but Battler denied the existance of Beatrice, being the witch culprit. Because Beatrice was denied Shannon, Kanon, George, Maria & Jessica were returned to their former state (the way they died to complete the ceremony) and only Battler remained to battle with Beatrice. Don't forget that this is outside of the chessboard, anything can be done here. Scenes can be re-watched and re-examined. The whole battle is between whether the culprit was a witch or a human. Each side tries to prove the other wrong. Battler isn't proving that witches and magic don't exist. He is trying to prove that the massacre was a human action. Accepting Beatrice = the culprit won (Battler's point of view). Foggle said: Kiseki said: yeah kinda strange but it think its totally fine, since this is a show which confronts logic with magic. so even the bad ending stuff was amusing for me at least. rika <3 i mean bernkastel but cool act^^ since the witches finally showed up it will begin to be really interesting now. That fucker is Rika with a teleporter. Witches =/= real. I will not believe! )': Once again. You can believe in witches, after all, Battler is in a parallel world at the moment. What you want to try and disprove is the fact that a witch was behind the massacre. All you have to do is prove that a human could have done it. |
TsunamiJul 30, 2009 9:53 AM
Jul 30, 2009 9:48 AM
#110
So, I went to sleep thinking so much about the show that I even dreamed about it. Like hopper jp said, I thought about what Higurashi was at its core. About Oyashiro (or whatever)-sama being blamed for the deaths and then the actual culprit being a disease that Rika was trying to stop with the abilities she has from Hanyuu and (maybe) Bernkastel. What I came to the conclusion was that not once was it ever a mystery about how someone died, it was always "what made these people snap" and "who's going to be the snapper this go around?" Oyashiro was the explanation for that. What we have in Umineko is a totally different case. We have people who were murdered, some in very hard to explain situations, and from the very beginning, we're told that a witch exists. Not only that, we've seen golden butterflies out the wazoo on this show, and finally, we have this last episode. Whether or not Purgatorio is removed from the "game board" (a stupid way of putting it) doesn't matter, the fact is that Beatrice showed herself to them, so by that nature, she just does exist. Someone mentioned that we can't trust anything Battler doesn't see, well, thats fine, but still doesn't explain the golden butterflies that split into four or five at the end of the first half. Moreover, I wonder why no one can seem to remember their killer. Especially Shannon and Kanon, which is why, again, I feel like they aren't saying all that they can, and why Battler can't outright disprove her existence with his death. Lastly, if we look at Umineko as a second installation in a series, if Beatrice does not exist, then by proxy, neither does Bernkastel, totally nullifying everything that happened in Higurashi. It makes sense (to me anyways) to bridge these worlds together with the witches, which I almost feel is a more important story than that of Battler refuting Beatrice's existence. I'll respond to a couple of comments that happened while I was gone. Kantarou said: You could think of it this way as well: Beatrice the Golden Witch exists, but the murders on Rokkenjima are committed by humans using her name and legend as a cover. The possibilities so far are endless until the answer arcs come out. That's all part of the fun, to guess what really occured in some scenes and etc. As I said, refuting Beatrice's existence flies in the face of almost everything that was bothered to have been presented. If she doesn't exist, what are we left with? A story where the first five episodes had barely any meaning, with shoddy characters. I think that the fake out doesn't have to do with Beatrice's existence, but more to do with some of the character's roles in the fake out and the relationship between Beatrice/Bernkastel, and whoever it was she was rhetorically talking to at the end of the episode. SilentXenocide said: The point isn't whether or not magic exists. It's whether or not the murders were carried out by a human. Keep a few things in mind. On the island, you cannot trust what other people see unless Battler is around. Just because you see Kanon die in the boiler room for example doesn't necessarily mean that's the way things go down. Also, Battler himself never sees the witch while on the island while the murders take place. If the witch existed, she could just simply show magic to him on the island to prove magic exists. As the show goes on, you'll see it isn't as simple as the witch is the culprit. Well, I think everything I want to say, I've already said at the beginning of the post...again, it seems to me that you already have it in your head that this mystery works the same as Higurashi. I don't think it does. I think we are supposed to carry some of our knowledge of that world over to this in order to be closer to solving the mystery. On an unrelated note, When exactly do both of these shows happen? Higurashi uses the Japanese way of telling when the year is (Showa something?) so I've totally forgotten when. It's around June or July (summertime) of somewhere in the 80's? And this is summer of 86? |
Jul 30, 2009 9:50 AM
#111
Tsunami said: Foggle said: That fucker is Rika with a teleporter. Witches =/= real. I will not believe! )': Once again. You can believe in witches, after all, Battler is in a parallel world at the moment. What you want to try and disprove is the fact that a witch was behind the massacre. All you have to do is prove that a human could have done it. Don't worry, I'm just being retarded for the sake of it. AceSoldia said: *ignores all spoilers* Best way to do that is to never go onto any boards or threads with "Umineko" in the title. I've already had the first three fucking VNs spoiled for me. :| |
Jul 30, 2009 9:54 AM
#112
noteDhero said: So, I went to sleep thinking so much about the show that I even dreamed about it. Like hopper jp said, I thought about what Higurashi was at its core. About Oyashiro (or whatever)-sama being blamed for the deaths and then the actual culprit being a disease that Rika was trying to stop with the abilities she has from Hanyuu and (maybe) Bernkastel. What I came to the conclusion was that not once was it ever a mystery about how someone died, it was always "what made these people snap" and "who's going to be the snapper this go around?" Oyashiro was the explanation for that. What we have in Umineko is a totally different case. We have people who were murdered, some in very hard to explain situations, and from the very beginning, we're told that a witch exists. Not only that, we've seen golden butterflies out the wazoo on this show, and finally, we have this last episode. Whether or not Purgatorio is removed from the "game board" (a stupid way of putting it) doesn't matter, the fact is that Beatrice showed herself to them, so by that nature, she just does exist. Someone mentioned that we can't trust anything Battler doesn't see, well, thats fine, but still doesn't explain the golden butterflies that split into four or five at the end of the first half. Moreover, I wonder why no one can seem to remember their killer. Especially Shannon and Kanon, which is why, again, I feel like they aren't saying all that they can, and why Battler can't outright disprove her existence with his death. Lastly, if we look at Umineko as a second installation in a series, if Beatrice does not exist, then by proxy, neither does Bernkastel, totally nullifying everything that happened in Higurashi. It makes sense (to me anyways) to bridge these worlds together with the witches, which I almost feel is a more important story than that of Battler refuting Beatrice's existence. I'll respond to a couple of comments that happened while I was gone. Kantarou said: You could think of it this way as well: Beatrice the Golden Witch exists, but the murders on Rokkenjima are committed by humans using her name and legend as a cover. The possibilities so far are endless until the answer arcs come out. That's all part of the fun, to guess what really occured in some scenes and etc. As I said, refuting Beatrice's existence flies in the face of almost everything that was bothered to have been presented. If she doesn't exist, what are we left with? A story where the first five episodes had barely any meaning, with shoddy characters. I think that the fake out doesn't have to do with Beatrice's existence, but more to do with some of the character's roles in the fake out and the relationship between Beatrice/Bernkastel, and whoever it was she was rhetorically talking to at the end of the episode. SilentXenocide said: The point isn't whether or not magic exists. It's whether or not the murders were carried out by a human. Keep a few things in mind. On the island, you cannot trust what other people see unless Battler is around. Just because you see Kanon die in the boiler room for example doesn't necessarily mean that's the way things go down. Also, Battler himself never sees the witch while on the island while the murders take place. If the witch existed, she could just simply show magic to him on the island to prove magic exists. As the show goes on, you'll see it isn't as simple as the witch is the culprit. Well, I think everything I want to say, I've already said at the beginning of the post...again, it seems to me that you already have it in your head that this mystery works the same as Higurashi. I don't think it does. I think we are supposed to carry some of our knowledge of that world over to this in order to be closer to solving the mystery. On an unrelated note, When exactly do both of these shows happen? Higurashi uses the Japanese way of telling when the year is (Showa something?) so I've totally forgotten when. It's around June or July (summertime) of somewhere in the 80's? And this is summer of 86? Higurashi's main story took place in June 1983. Umineko's main story takes place in October 1986. |
Jul 30, 2009 10:00 AM
#113
The whole anti-fantasy vs anti-mystery thing is funny :) The best is that you think about multiple possiblities and do not accept one as 'Truth'. Do not want to solve a mistery after only 5 eps, the real story begins next week. I hope for parallel worlds, illusions and serious mindfuck (I'm an anime-only watcher) ^^ |
Jul 30, 2009 10:03 AM
#114
Thrilling episode, Beatrice is flat out awesome. I think she's gonna be my favorite character along with Battler. It's gonna be nice seeing them go at it. A cameo by the witch Berkastel made my day and that's probably only the beginning to this story. So the main problem in this story is to find out whether the culprits of the murders are magic or by humans work? Well I think I'm gonna take Battler side and OBJECT everything I see. It'll probably be more fun that way anyway instead of believing everything that's put in the forefront. So I hear the real story begins next arc? |
HaiShangJul 30, 2009 10:37 AM
Jul 30, 2009 10:14 AM
#115
Tsunami said: If a king sacrifices 30,000 of his people because he believes magic/god will thus bless his kingdom, can his action be excused by what he believes? And as another poster referenced to death note earlier: why was Yagami Light considered a villain when he actually does believe in justice and good? because his action can not be excused by any believe he has, so does Maria. Her behavior, up to this point, can not be excused by whatever she really believes. For me, she is designed to be the reflection of evil, but, as you said, maybe i am judging a bit early since the interesting part is starting now according to what many ppl postedvinesage said: Zedrane said: vinesage said: LOL?? what kind of show is that?? this got to be one of the dumbest i have ever seen until they can prove me wrong in the "still to be shown" episodes.... and the only one person (maria) i want to see dead sooo bad throughout the 5 episodes didnt suffer a totally miserable death?? i want to see her face cut in two as well...(graphically) ps: preview http://umineko.tv/web/main/onair/index.html What? Having her body torn apart and eaten by demons. Then being revived and slowly turned back into the pitiful pile of flesh that she was when she was dead wasn't a horrible enough demise? Sick bastard. are u saying that, laughing at corpses of your relatives whose faces are completely torn apart, isnt sick? I'd say Maria is the one of the sickest character i have seen and by far sicker than this serial murderer they are after. If i must define the evil in this show then it is definitely called maria.... and evil does, most of the time, deserve their suitable end (and i didnt see her end) I don't want to spoil you but you can rewatch everything that Maria has said or done. She isn't an evil person. She truly trusts Beatrice and waits for the opening of the Golden Land. Since she 100% believes in Beatrice those deaths aren't something bad for her. She has always tried to help Battler, from her point of view. Make yourself believe in Beatrice and the twilights then see if you're not happy when all the dead get resurrected and sent into a Utopia. I only summarized what you could have learned from Episode 1 (first arc) if you had paid more attention to Maria's goals, not her means. Also, don't judge her before you get to learn about her, which will happen. |
Jul 30, 2009 10:25 AM
#116
vinesage said: I didn't say that what she has done so far is right. Wait, why am I even starting to explain on Maria. Just watch it, it will all be revealed.Tsunami said: If a king sacrifices 30,000 of his people because he believes magic/god will thus bless his kingdom, can his action be excused by what he believes? And as another poster referenced to death note earlier: why was Yagami Light considered a villain when he actually does believe in justice and good? because his action can not be excused by any believe he has, so does Maria. Her behavior, up to this point, can not be excused by whatever she really believes. For me, she is designed to be the reflection of evil, but, as you said, maybe i am judging a bit early since the interesting part is starting now according to what many ppl postedvinesage said: Zedrane said: vinesage said: LOL?? what kind of show is that?? this got to be one of the dumbest i have ever seen until they can prove me wrong in the "still to be shown" episodes.... and the only one person (maria) i want to see dead sooo bad throughout the 5 episodes didnt suffer a totally miserable death?? i want to see her face cut in two as well...(graphically) ps: preview http://umineko.tv/web/main/onair/index.html What? Having her body torn apart and eaten by demons. Then being revived and slowly turned back into the pitiful pile of flesh that she was when she was dead wasn't a horrible enough demise? Sick bastard. are u saying that, laughing at corpses of your relatives whose faces are completely torn apart, isnt sick? I'd say Maria is the one of the sickest character i have seen and by far sicker than this serial murderer they are after. If i must define the evil in this show then it is definitely called maria.... and evil does, most of the time, deserve their suitable end (and i didnt see her end) I don't want to spoil you but you can rewatch everything that Maria has said or done. She isn't an evil person. She truly trusts Beatrice and waits for the opening of the Golden Land. Since she 100% believes in Beatrice those deaths aren't something bad for her. She has always tried to help Battler, from her point of view. Make yourself believe in Beatrice and the twilights then see if you're not happy when all the dead get resurrected and sent into a Utopia. I only summarized what you could have learned from Episode 1 (first arc) if you had paid more attention to Maria's goals, not her means. Also, don't judge her before you get to learn about her, which will happen. |
Jul 30, 2009 10:27 AM
#117
Jul 30, 2009 10:28 AM
#118
First arc was pretty cool. Tamura voicing Bern was perfect <3 |
Jul 30, 2009 10:30 AM
#119
vinesage said: Tsunami said: If a king sacrifices 30,000 of his people because he believes magic/god will thus bless his kingdom, can his action be excused by what he believes? And as another poster referenced to death note earlier: why was Yagami Light considered a villain when he actually does believe in justice and good? because his action can not be excused by any believe he has, so does Maria. Her behavior, up to this point, can not be excused by whatever she really believes. For me, she is designed to be the reflection of evil, but, as you said, maybe i am judging a bit early since the interesting part is starting now according to what many ppl postedvinesage said: Zedrane said: vinesage said: LOL?? what kind of show is that?? this got to be one of the dumbest i have ever seen until they can prove me wrong in the "still to be shown" episodes.... and the only one person (maria) i want to see dead sooo bad throughout the 5 episodes didnt suffer a totally miserable death?? i want to see her face cut in two as well...(graphically) ps: preview http://umineko.tv/web/main/onair/index.html What? Having her body torn apart and eaten by demons. Then being revived and slowly turned back into the pitiful pile of flesh that she was when she was dead wasn't a horrible enough demise? Sick bastard. are u saying that, laughing at corpses of your relatives whose faces are completely torn apart, isnt sick? I'd say Maria is the one of the sickest character i have seen and by far sicker than this serial murderer they are after. If i must define the evil in this show then it is definitely called maria.... and evil does, most of the time, deserve their suitable end (and i didnt see her end) I don't want to spoil you but you can rewatch everything that Maria has said or done. She isn't an evil person. She truly trusts Beatrice and waits for the opening of the Golden Land. Since she 100% believes in Beatrice those deaths aren't something bad for her. She has always tried to help Battler, from her point of view. Make yourself believe in Beatrice and the twilights then see if you're not happy when all the dead get resurrected and sent into a Utopia. I only summarized what you could have learned from Episode 1 (first arc) if you had paid more attention to Maria's goals, not her means. Also, don't judge her before you get to learn about her, which will happen. Maria didn't get too warm of a reception among VN crowds until at least EP4, when her past was extensively covered. Up until this point in the anime (end of EP1), I can see where you're coming from, as Maria is undoubtedly designed to be the "creepy weird kid" of Umineko. Though they did overdo the facial expressions a bit in the anime version. Though this has to be said Maria believed that Beatrice and magic exists. So to her, dying isn't much of a problem since everyone will be revived at the end. Instead of panicking and trying to figure out who the murderer is (she believes that it's Beatrice who is opening the door to the golden land), its far more constructive to go with the flow and not suspecting the existence of Beatrice. Plus, so far she only did "creepy" things (facial expressions) other than chasing down Battler with a knife wanting to kill him or something like that. So to say that she's evil, IMO, is too harsh of a term. Creepy and scary, prehaps; but definitely not evil. |
mouselmmJul 30, 2009 10:33 AM
Jul 30, 2009 10:30 AM
#120
J3T said: This series is bit confusing, but quite interesting. Can't wait to see the next arc. Lol, I hope you like being confused. Otherwise you won't like this show at all. |
Jul 30, 2009 10:31 AM
#121
/me is amused at the amount of people who have already accepted the witch They really should have made it more clear that the 2nd half of the episode wasn't in the real world. And about Bernkastel, didn't Ryukishi say something about the Umineko Bernkastel not being the same as the Higurashi Bernkastel? I don't think Umineko and Higurashi are really related. |
Jul 30, 2009 10:34 AM
#122
hirahira said: /me is amused at the amount of people who have already accepted the witch This is gonna' be bad for business. hirahira said: They really should have made it more clear that the 2nd half of the episode wasn't in the real world. It was obvious enough. The one thing this show shouldn't do is beat people over the head with what's going on. |
Jul 30, 2009 10:39 AM
#123
hirahira said: /me is amused at the amount of people who have already accepted the witch. Now that I think about it, I was pretty anti-mystery for a good portion of Ep2. It wasn't until near the end when I started seeing the use of POVs (sadly lacking in the anime because of its medium) and the explanation of magic's possible existence in Ep3 that I became anti-fantasy. So give it some time, I'm sure more people will end up switching sides. *cackle**cackle**cackle* |
Jul 30, 2009 10:41 AM
#124
hirahira said: /me is amused at the amount of people who have already accepted the witch less work for Beato & co. =3 |
Jul 30, 2009 10:44 AM
#125
mouselmm said: Yes that's mainly the reason that Maria is getting this harsh treatment. VN players got to see all the sides of her with the creepy ones only showing during times of the incidents which were not common. lets say out of 30 hours 1 was Maria beeing creepy. Since it was all pushed into a 20 minutes episode (per twilight) they only get to see creepy Maria.vinesage said: Tsunami said: If a king sacrifices 30,000 of his people because he believes magic/god will thus bless his kingdom, can his action be excused by what he believes? And as another poster referenced to death note earlier: why was Yagami Light considered a villain when he actually does believe in justice and good? because his action can not be excused by any believe he has, so does Maria. Her behavior, up to this point, can not be excused by whatever she really believes. For me, she is designed to be the reflection of evil, but, as you said, maybe i am judging a bit early since the interesting part is starting now according to what many ppl postedvinesage said: Zedrane said: vinesage said: LOL?? what kind of show is that?? this got to be one of the dumbest i have ever seen until they can prove me wrong in the "still to be shown" episodes.... and the only one person (maria) i want to see dead sooo bad throughout the 5 episodes didnt suffer a totally miserable death?? i want to see her face cut in two as well...(graphically) ps: preview http://umineko.tv/web/main/onair/index.html What? Having her body torn apart and eaten by demons. Then being revived and slowly turned back into the pitiful pile of flesh that she was when she was dead wasn't a horrible enough demise? Sick bastard. are u saying that, laughing at corpses of your relatives whose faces are completely torn apart, isnt sick? I'd say Maria is the one of the sickest character i have seen and by far sicker than this serial murderer they are after. If i must define the evil in this show then it is definitely called maria.... and evil does, most of the time, deserve their suitable end (and i didnt see her end) I don't want to spoil you but you can rewatch everything that Maria has said or done. She isn't an evil person. She truly trusts Beatrice and waits for the opening of the Golden Land. Since she 100% believes in Beatrice those deaths aren't something bad for her. She has always tried to help Battler, from her point of view. Make yourself believe in Beatrice and the twilights then see if you're not happy when all the dead get resurrected and sent into a Utopia. I only summarized what you could have learned from Episode 1 (first arc) if you had paid more attention to Maria's goals, not her means. Also, don't judge her before you get to learn about her, which will happen. Maria didn't get too warm of a reception among VN crowds until at least EP4, when her past was extensively covered. Up until this point in the anime (end of EP1), I can see where you're coming from, as Maria is undoubtedly designed to be the "creepy weird kid" of Umineko. Though they did overdo the facial expressions a bit in the anime version. Though this has to be said Maria believed that Beatrice and magic exists. So to her, dying isn't much of a problem since everyone will be revived at the end. Instead of panicking and trying to figure out who the murderer is (she believes that it's Beatrice who is opening the door to the golden land), its far more constructive to go with the flow and not suspecting the existence of Beatrice. Plus, so far she only did "creepy" things (facial expressions) other than chasing down Battler with a knife wanting to kill him or something like that. So to say that she's evil, IMO, is too harsh of a term. Creepy and scary, prehaps; but definitely not evil. On another note, Happy Halloween Maria! *cackle* |
Jul 30, 2009 10:44 AM
#126
Wow, another awesome episode, I'm liking this show more and more. Concerning this whole "the witch exists!" (or not) thing, if it's like Higurashi, I'm pretty sure Beatrice and co. do exist in another dimension, just like Bernkastel observing the events of summer 1983. That doesn't mean that all the crimes on the island can't be explained without magic, after all they did give us a pseudo-scientific conspiracy theory ending in Higurashi that didn't have anything to do with magic, except maybe for Hanyuu's existence. Note to self : stopping reading these Umineko anime discussion threads, too many spoilers. -_- |
Jul 30, 2009 10:57 AM
#127
gyaahh, beato makes her appearance along with lady bern!!! animation does not disappoint. i love the golden butterflies X3 --- and people should stop picking on maria. i admit that maria wasn't my most favorite character (even then i liked beatrice the portrait) in the 1st episode of the VN but it's not like i wanted her to die. I liked her eccentric-ness. I started liking her in the 2nd episode of the VN. i feel so sad for her. |
DearFutureJul 30, 2009 11:02 AM
Jul 30, 2009 10:58 AM
#128
Tsunami said: On another note, Happy Halloween Maria! *cackle* Oh, yes. That will be episode 7 I'm guessing. Bwahahahahaha! |
Jul 30, 2009 11:05 AM
#129
I wish they had the pacing of the first two episodes like this one. |
Jul 30, 2009 11:09 AM
#130
Really good episode. Just what I expected (I'm reading the SN as the anime airs). As for anti-fantasy/anti-mystery... I like to think of Umineko as taking place in the old World of Darkness, and Battler is just creating an huge amount of Paradox all over the place which in turn causes the magic to backlash against everyone, lol. Otherwise, I don't think "a witch did it" would make the series interesting, so I'll keep watching for all the "human only" explanations (including the meme that gets mentioned a lot). |
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