Ookami to Koushinryou II Episode 3 Discussion
Jul 24, 2009 9:34 PM
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Jul 24, 2009 10:31 PM
Jul 24, 2009 10:58 PM
Joined: Jun 2007
Horo's cynicism was amusing to watch. It provided much needed entertainment.
But... I'm still in the dark when it comes to the business side of the anime. Any explanations? Unless it's already been given and I missed it?
crazy old women that was selling those nifty rocks was tipped off that the church was coming so she left. In their time magic and such was considered evil and the church would punish anyone practicing it by jail time or death. Since the old women was gone, the city had no one to sell those stones. For some reason the stones became a trend amongst the women in the city which caused the market value of the otherwise worthless stones to skyrocket. Now a few merchants are selling the stones and becoming semi-rich in the process. This is how the kid is making enough money to pay off Horo's debt
With all that said Lawrence is attempting to make triple the profit. He already knows the kid is gonna win the bet and pay up the money for Horo's "debt". Lawrence is also assuming Horo will reject the kid which would make Lawrence win in all the side betting that's going on around him (who will end up with Horo after the fact). Lawrence is also attempting to sell those stones while the price's are high. If all goes well he would make money from three difference sources and walk away with Horo. On the flip side if Horo leaves Lawrence he's still gonna walk away with the cash the kid paid and the cash he's gonna make from selling stones.
I suspect theres more going on inside Horo's head then just getting home. From the way she reacted "Mate with me this way I wont be alone" is enough to make me think this. Lawrence also seems to be noticing this as well. It's probably one of the many reasons why he doesn't just come out and say I love you.
Modified by DeathfireD, Jul 25, 2009 12:18 AM
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Jul 24, 2009 11:07 PM
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It's complicated. I thought he didn't want to tell her about the village because he wanted to be with her but instead, he went on with the "deal" and told her that he was going to drop her somewhere near. I'm not sure I understand what he's trying to do. Either he's in denial or he really can't come to love Holo because of the wolf and human obstacle between them. Either way, he shouldn't have hidden it from Holo because her mind was focused on returning back home all the time, now that she adapted herself not end up with Lawrence and learned about Yitsu, what's going to happen to her I wonder.
Not to mention the fact that Lawrence is an abstract thinker.
It would be logical for him to say, "Well, there have been reports that the village doesn't exist, but maybe your giant supernatural wolf pack is still in the area."
Horo is not a very abstract thinker, particularly not when she's emotional.
I would have handled the situation very differently if I were Lawrence, but then again I would have tried sleeping in Horo's bed during the first season if I had been Lawrence.
Lawrence is not a typical testosterone hero. If he were, he would have done the "childish" thing and ripped the contract in half.
If I were faced with that contract, I would have said, "But she's got that special Churchy prayer magic. 1000 silver is nowhere near enough. Take a month to go get me a special Churchy artifact."
And then in less than a month I would leave town...
As Horo mentioned, Lawrence was only willing to accept the contract because the other merchants were watching him and he didn't want to act like a lovesick boy in front of his grown-up manly friends.
Give Toyama Koichi one spiteful, malicious vote!
As a half-baked, comedic kind of authority, I don't mind lending a hand in this situation. (Bakemonogatari, Ep. 8)
I'm going to go and ignore most of what you've said... - Mawootad
Jul 25, 2009 6:09 AM
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Jul 25, 2009 7:06 AM
Joined: Mar 2008
Well, i can say i did press stop before the preview (never watch them..) And even so i am sure profit wise the next ep will make him filthy rich no matter whats going to happen.
But the reaction didn't come from nowhere, she can not tell if he hides something but if he is lying (big difference), lawrence made certain he never lied to her. He just never mentioned that little detail (which he knew even in Season 1). Why didn't he tell her? Maybe because he was not sure what to think of that rumor. Also he is not a child, as a Merchant he can hide his intentions perfectly.
Her anxiousness comes from the fact that she is immortal, and he is not. Should make obvious where the "will you mate with me" line came from. What she's gonna do once he's dead? Now that she knows what its like she doesn't want to be alone. And given that her homeland might actually be destroyed she has the potential for being the last wolf goddess around.
Aside that, Its good to see the series is moving towards a more substantial conclusion than what series 1 had.. | And definitely more emotional shock and awe
Season 2 is so far awesome ;)
Jul 25, 2009 9:10 AM
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Heart-wrenching episode there. He should have took her on her offer to mate though.
Hardly, in that situation all that would have done is make the situation WAY worse. Besides, the translation is not clear whether that was a rhetorical question, aka "Would you even *consider* to mate with me". Given the flow of her dialog i'd say it was not a question to mate with her, but a question whether he would be at all considering it, and given that it was a rhetorical question (she was more speaking to herself than to him) she probably didn't want an answer to that in that moment anyway.
But yes, heart-wrenching indeed.. hardly any anime ever got me so stumped at the end of a single ep, and at ep 3 at that.
Jul 26, 2009 11:27 AM
Jul 26, 2009 12:35 PM
Jul 26, 2009 12:52 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
All the hate for Amarti?
He is a FANTASTIC antagonist, especially compared to some of those highly forgettable guys last season. A memorable character and a genuine challenge to Lawrence. Yes we all hate him but he's made to be disliked and he has certainly helped the huge improvement this season has going so far
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Jul 26, 2009 2:53 PM
Jul 26, 2009 3:02 PM
Joined: Jun 2007
Eh, calling him a fantastic antagonist even though he's not even the source of the current problems between Lawrence and Horo might be exaggerating. All he did was oppose Lawrence by telling him he will 'free' Horo. Suck for the HxL fans, but the timing was bad, and to release their hate they blame the little blondie.
Unless he will be a character throughout the entire season, he'll be most likely forgotten as much as the previous season's 'bad guys'.
They actually have the girl that was playing the "bad guy" from the first season in the OP. I wonder if Amarti and her will meet and hook up :P.
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Amazing performance from Horo's seiyuu on this ep. Tons of /a/ posts and long threads everywhere about this one. I acquired and read the light-novel from that point forward because the emotional cliffhanger was so powerful.
Seriously great storytelling. It feels like their entire relationship from season 1 ep 1 has come into play, and all the bumps in the road came back and reared their heads all at once. I'll finish this arc and see a little beyond it before bumping the show to a 10, but it's right up there.
Jul 28, 2009 12:46 PM
Joined: Feb 2008
What an amazing episode! *FTGT is happy and positively supercharged*
I think that really "unhinged" some jaws. XD
Hilarious, romantic, thrilling, sad... it had everything. Thats the very reason why I am an Anime-Fan in the first place.
Since I have read this part of the story from the novel translation I was eager to see it animated. And I have to say that I am more than pleased with the result. :D
I really enjoyed a lot of scenes, i.e.:
- Horo showing Lawrence her acting skills.
- The nice chat between them, for example when Horo was drunken,
Horo:"What is next?", Lawrence:"Next is bed!", Horo: "Will you be gentle with me?"
- How Horo managed to get around marks question what she will do after the debt is payed by Amati.
- The intense revelation of Horos feelings regarding her hometown and loneliness.
Three cheers for the director!
But although I am pleased, deep down I wish they would not have followed the novel so eagerly. Some slight changes would have been nice. As some people already pointed out, seeing Lawrence remain silent at such an important moment was really painful to watch. Personally I hoped for something like:
Lawrence tearing apart his clothes and screaming "YES, LETS MAKE WOLFBABIES", similar to this scene in "Anchorman". *jokingly*
wolves have periods?
I LOLed :D
Time for some thoughts about the characters (no spoilers included. I just used the tags to organize the post. If you know the anime you can safely read on!)
Regarding Amatis behaviour:
I don't really blame the kid either. Unless he has some side game going (which doesnt seem likely), he sees horo as basically an indentured servent whom is being mistreated. he doesn't know their relationship goes beyond that and it is the other way around if anything. He also seems to like her which isn't surprising given that she is attractive and putting on her best "good girl act" for him...
Absolutely. From my point of view, only very few of us would not fall for Horos charme and pranks. Who would not try to move heaven and earth in order to win Horos heart if she behaves like a "princess in danger"? And keep in mind that Amati is very young, gullible and not very popular among the woman in his town.
So when he fell in love, he knew that if he would not act as quickly as possible, his true love could have traveled on and be gone forever. And he never said something selfish like "I want to free Horo from her debt in order to marry her". He rather said "I want to pay Horos debt so that she is free and can decide if she wants to travel on or stay with me". Thus he is very honest and fair. So, personally I cant see any reason to really hate him.
Regarding Lawrence behaviour:
Drama took over halfway through the episode, what is Lawrence doing?
Why the fuck do you blame Lawrence?
Because he's an idiot for walking out in the end. Yes, Horo stepped way out of line with what she said, but she did realize that herself. But instead of trying to patch things over he just walks away after she appologized, which is possibly the worst thing he could do. And it was retarded to keep the news about her Village to himself in the first place.
In horo's state, nothing he said probably could have reached her anyway.
Seriously though, unless the letter said something more concrete, would anyone really tell her that there is a rumor that some bear destroyed her homeland? It very well could just be some random legend.
I totally agree with Falatorx here. Lawrence heard about this "legend" as a child, so he was not even sure if it was actually Horos village that was mentioned. Therefore he didnt want to make Horo panic over some third-hand ancient rumours before getting reliable evidence to confirm them. Even the "druid lady" Deanna could not say for sure that those events she described definitely occurred.
In addition to that, when he came back into the room Horo was already broken up from reading the later. I think she had (at least) one hour to work herself up about it, thus there was not much Lawrence could do at that moment. Lawrence seems to understand this instinctively, and acted as if anything he said was potentially dangerous. Under such circumstances (Big mighty wolf god at the end of her tether), it is very natural for him to leave the room in order to not make things worse.
... Horo getting mad at Lawerence when she full well knows the truth (even if she didn't, she can sense it) about his intentions was beyond ridiculous to me.
I just really fail to see how Yoitsu is so important to her when she has clearly forgotten every detail about the place besides its name. Maybe there is a good reason for her amnesia, but right now, its gone totally unaddressed. Then she starts blabbing about having been alone when she really isn't, and then wanting a child, and I was just rolling my eyes. Very contrived.
Regarding Horos behaviour:
As noteDhero a lot of people (also in other forums) seem to be very surprised about Horos mental breakdown and some even say that this is totally out of character. But you have to consider the following:
- Her absolut major fear is to be alone and forgotten! Therefore she is nursing precisely that fear.
- After standing a long time to a contract with a village, she was betrayed by the villagers and had to leave the very place where people swear to worship and not forget her. Therefore she is clinging to the thought of returning to her old hometown in order to be reunited with her family and friends.
- She is not used to the human feelings, since she didnt took the shape of a human girl and havent had a lot of contact to others for several hundred years. Therefore she is sometimes overwhelmed by emotions (she tells this to Lawrence when she burst into tears after the sewer-scene in Season 1).
- Right before she receives the letter from Lawrence, he raises Horos hopes to find her hometown immense by telling her that he got more information about Yoitsus location and expects that the letter holds even more information.
- She is a female (they often tend to overreact). :P
Couple that with the fear that Lawrence, the only one she has opened up to in umpteen years, seem to try to get rid of her, and its pretty clear (at least for me) where her degenaration comes from. Having events turn out to match one's fears can not be very easy to handle, and Horo doesn't have any sort of release valve except her emotions.
And also Horos blabbing about being alone and wanting a child is quite understandable for me, since she knows that Lawrences lifetime is only a blink of an eye for her. So she will be alone again very soon.
What Horo really needs is a friend of her own kind!
Someone she can spend a "goddess lifetime" with. Thats why she wished for a child.
By rewatching the episode I noticed this scene again. How did Horo manage to come out unharmed?
Due to the intense finish, people tend to forget how many nice moments we had throughout the 3rd episode. Two of my favorite scenes:
- Sorry for the "novel post", but I couldnt stop - :P
PS: This is my 666th post at MAL. Coincidence or fate?
Modified by FTGT, Jul 31, 2009 2:23 AM
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