Shoujo Kakumei Utena

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A masterpiece needs a group for the ones who admire the masterpiece, so, Utena now has a club, welcome everyone and please help with a description. ^^''

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Poll: Which 'Shoujo Kakumei Utena' character is your favorite? ( 1 2 ) Louchan	20 replies	by Physica_Fulcrum »» 09-22-09, 5:55 PM
Under appreciated? psycho_doll	5 replies	by cereja-chan »» 07-19-09, 9:01 PM
Utena Symbolism~ Elysiana	2 replies	by »»
Original 'Shoujo Kakumei Utena' manga? Racchan	8 replies	by »»

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Club Comments

PockyBebop | 08-11-09, 5:20 PM

@nexist:

I know your last comment is old, but I would like to join in with this discussion. It's very intriguing!

So, with your theory on Miki as an "optimistic rationalist" in mind, whenever he freaks out over his watch, does that mean that the irrational effects of Akio's world vastly outweigh Miki's logic and rationalism.

I would also like to apply this to the real world. For example, if someone who is heavily addicted to anime, movies, books, etc., which portray fictitious events that could never happen in real life, is told by someone who is down-to-earth that that stuff isn't real, the message won't go through to them because they are so caught up in their own world, their own "fairy tale world" (tying it back to Utena), so to speak.

nexist418 | 03-09-09, 11:31 AM

@duelistbluerose: I am interpreting it as comment on the real world. Akio's world is not rational. It tends to follow rules and there are a few that are integral, but the things that happen are not rational. The Dead interact, history is rewritten, cars drive themselves, things appear and disappear. Miki is an aspect of the optimistic rationalist. His compulsive measuring is an attempt to impose order on the reality in which he finds himself.

Duelistbluerose | 03-09-09, 3:26 AM

I don't understand your theory. how would over-reliance of anything work within ohtori - akio's world?

nexist418 | 03-06-09, 11:26 PM

I always took the stopwatch to represent humanities over-reliance on science. Miki is always measuring things, but he doens't know what to make of the data. It's applying Science to an irrational framework.

Duelistbluerose | 03-06-09, 10:37 PM

I went to Katsucon, an anime convention in the washington, dc area and there was an Utena panel there. it was probably one of the best panels I've been to - and I've been to several different conventions over the years. they discussed all sorts of things about just the TV series, and also answered some questions that were bugging me about the series for awhile.

Miki's stopwatch......... the panel explained that miki was aware that time was going by differently within ohtori academy, so with this stopwatch he was timing time. this kinda explains why miki would look at the watch and then have an extreme look of shock on his face. my only question would be how miki knew that time is different withint the ohtori world? any thoughts on this?

url_elf | 12-29-08, 4:33 PM

The power of our thought and language is such that we can create symbols of things a part from the thing itself, even ideas of ourselves apart from our self, and unless someone mentions that the symbol is different from the fact (it's an idea, and the other is reality) I think most people don't even realize that they're "getting lost" because they're just reading a map and not surveying the landscape around them.

With this in mind, it's interesting to go and revisit the characters in Utena, because there's what they appear as and then what they actually are. Same goes with the conflicts. It's easy to say it's gender conflicts (the capitalist patriarchy is keepin wimminz down!) and growing up but when these are viewed as symbols, you're forced to ask what do they really mean then?

And these are just the superficial themes we've mentioned here! A bit OT to the discussion at hand, but does anyone have any idea how long it took the creators to figure this all out?

nexist418 | 12-29-08, 3:40 PM

@url_elf: Do you have any idea how few people can refrain from confusing the map for the territory? There are people working with these things for decades who cannot differentiate between the symbols representing the metaphysics & the manifest persons. I am actually a bit impressed by that.

url_elf | 12-29-08, 1:48 PM

I see, I think it's just that nowadays people organize the self around sex(gender) and sexuality, and with that frame of mind, when you watch something like Utena that appears to be the core issue. I see what you're saying though, that it's not a question of being male or female but rather active or passive. The vehicle of gender (to be "male" or "female") is just a symbol to represent the idea of activity or passivity, and mistaking the symbol for the idea only allows for a shallower understanding of the subject.